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The Dive Bar Rock Star Podcast
The Dive Bar Rock Star Podcast

Episode 29 · 1 year ago

Stan Sargeant- 500 Bucks And My Car (Barry Manilow, Keb Mo, The Tonight Show with Jay Leno)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

From his home in Venice, Italy, bass player, singer, songwriter, Stan Sargeant, talks about recording his new album, “String Theory” during the pandemic and in two different countries. He recalls what it was like working on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno and the not so grueling, TV show schedule. He reveals how he got from studying biology at Howard University to being one of the busiest bass players in Los Angeles.

www.stansargeant.com

String Theory:

https://open.spotify.com/album/7mVqQxeE3QxDFK0QGkFn8t?si=eVIXw8FpSyaMH5rwUWgnNA


www.divebarrockstar.com

If you are a fan of the dive bar Rockstar podcast and would like to help support the show, there's a great way that you could do that and start a new fashion trend. We have a new merchandise page on the website, which features t shirts and hoodies that are available for sale on Amazon. Just click on merchandise and the top menu and all of the links will be there, or go directly to dive Bar rockstarcom merchandise. Get started early on your Christmas shopping at dive Bar rockstarcom. Welcome to the dive Bar Rockstar podcast, the show exploring the lives of professional musicians of all types, touring musicians, recording artist, songwriters, engineer's bar bands, wedding bands and anyone making their living in the music industry. Whether you've dreamed of being a professional or you already are one, this is the podcast for you. I'm your host, Eric Baines, and I hope that you not only find some entertainment here, but also some helpful tips, trade secrets and ideas that will help you achieve your dreams. Well, it's raining cats and dogs here in Los Angeles tonight, which is kind of Nice. You know, people say we don't have seasons, but I assure you we do, even though they may not look like the ones in other parts of the world, but the skies have definitely opened up as they do on a normal, non drought year. So it's time to remember where to stash that umbrella that you put away last year and haven't seen since. I'm really excited because I got my copy of Least Clars Book that we talked all about on his episode and it's it's really incredible. It seems weird at first, not going to lie, because it is just a bunch of people flipping you off, but as you continue it kind of becomes this really cool combination of art and history because just the sheer amount of people that are in the book it's unbelievable. It's really, really neat. It was also cool to see some friends and other folks that have been on the podcasts that you know made it into the book. So maybe as your you should get your own book. I would definitely suggest it, and as you're looking through it you should see if you can spot the people that have been on this podcast. But anyways, make it a drinking game. That's what I would do, and you can get a copy of the book at Leland's scars beercom. It's sixty bucks for just the book or Eighty Bucks for a signed copy, and that's the one I got. So this will be the last podcast for a few weeks. I'm going to take a little break, partially just to rest my brain, because this is a ton of work. It's fun work most of the time, but it is it's a lot, a lot of work, but also to finish the music projects that I have in the works that I hope to release and to start some other things that I'm hoping that will be really cool in the new year. So I will keep you posted on that stuff when we return. But this should also give you some time to catch up on some old episodes. And speaking of Great Bass players, we happen to have one on the show with us today. He's zooming from Venice, Italy, so I apologize in advance for the sound quality, but he's really, really great bass player and he is toured and recorded with some incredible people such as Barry Manilow, Kev Mo, mindy a bear, Kaco Matsuey, bobby caldwell, Dave caused, jody Watley, Michael Frank's, Algero, Rick Brown, Jonathan Butler, the list goes on and on and on. He was the House Bass player for the how he mannedel show, which led to four years as the Bass player for the tonight show with Jay Leno. And he's got a new record out that's just awesome. I highly recommend it. came out on December fifteen called string theory, and you can hear that on spotify or wherever you listen to music. He's an amazing guy who gave me a lot of opportunities when I first came to La. So I'm super grateful. I'm so happy to have them on the show and I hope you enjoy my conversation with stands. Sergeant Star, so, how are you doing? Everything's gone good. Everything's going great, you know, in spite of everything that's going on, I guess. So, once we stopped working, I'll back in March. It was my chuch in to stay in La for a while and then, you know, just try to figure out what's going on. Right my wife fought re open to you, you have to come home right now. So I actually came home then and, as a matter of fact, I caught the last plane out New York. That was a lot to come out. Wow. Yeah, so I've been here since March twenty one, and I guess so has been the most of the time working on stuff and being creative. And unfortunately, during the summer we have places with the play they have, they lifted some of the restrictions and so up we were allowed to play outside. So that...

...that helped a whole lot. Yeah, that's good. We're musicians, you know, we find a way through it, you know, there's part of our nature. We got a introverts anyway. So we said, and just be creative, and that's much how it happens with everybody. Yeah, just be a deluge of people coming out with CDs and and PODCASTS and PODCASTS. Yeah, hopefully this vaccine will fix stuff and, you know, at least get us back to work. You know, I'm hoping. I'm hoping. It's it's kind of difficult to tell the personally, I'm not afraid of it, but I'm afraid of it for my friends. Wouldn't anything else, you know. I mean, for example, I work with very bad alone these he's seventy seven down. Well, there's no way I wanted to go up on station business life just so I can make some money. You know, there's brains. You know, I would much rather he he just, you know, relapse. Maybe you retire and work when he felt like it supposed to putting its life at risk and his fans know so right, I thought Barry Manelot did retire. He did kind of the same way James Brown retired, you know. So I think he went home after a couple of months he got completely bored and decided to go back, and so he was happy what he was doing. You know, we had a residency in Vegas and so you know, he would stay there. He stayed on top of the hotel, the Pantiles, which basically there's a mansion sitting on top of the hotel. It's just it's just crazy. It's Elvis Presley, so matchup, Oh wow, and so everything's over the top everything. So he stays so doing to play for three days and he go back home and, you know, boom, Chacol Laha. You know, you seemed very comfortable. He didn't like to travel a whole lot, so especially flying. So this is a perfect thing for him. So hopefully the hotel stay aflow. It's just it was difficult to tell right now. Well, Covid is something that you might know something about because you're an incredible bass player, but you actually have a degree in molecular biology, and I am I correct in that? Yeah, but I don't remember that. I mean it's gone completely, gone, with all that good when I was doing it completely gone now and no, but I do have. I do have a great love for science. And yes, we did, we did some study. You know, basically the political a biology is to study of protein formation, messenger and Ribos Ol war and a and how to get the act and how to make the proteins at that you know because function. But we did have some study in viruses and you know basically how they function, how they work. You know how pages attack virus of viruses attack bacteria and cells and and it's ugly to watch. So how did you get from biology to bass playing or was it always at the same time? Or actually it was at the same time. I I was playing music book since I was like maybe seventeen, sixteen years old. I was to play drums. I started that when I was strong. I started playing the base out around sixteen. I wasn't allowed to bring any drum too. You to school. So I took up the bass and exclusively and and actually use the base in order to pay for some of my school and my mother paid for the first year. And then I work at night and that that got me through. I got me from school. And you worked at night playing in bars and stuff. Yes, yeah, if you played as a Howard Johnson. Oh No, that's a week last nights as a good gig. I take that GIG now. Oh, it was great, guys, don't take that GIG now. You know. Yeah, didn't make much, but you know, it was enough to me. When you're a kid in college, nobody makes much money, you know right. Yeah, and it was also a work study program I went to Howard University and the one thing I love about that school is that they they took their time with for in Durtury School, to say if you're having any problems with their studies, they would immediately assigned someone to help you out, assign a tutor, someone that was up, a classman to help you out. If you didn't have enough money, they find some way to find some work either working at the hospital. I worked to the hospital. There were there were certain business officers that had affiliation with the school, so they make sure they that you got through. You know, I'll always be grateful to that school for that. And you were taking music classes as well? No, no, I did not take any music class. I would hang out and the music departments, but I didn't take any classes. And I it's about a fact. And I first went to Howard. I wanted to audition for the music program...

...so I went in and the German listen to me for about ten seconds and then he says stop. Then we do your favor. You'll never make it in the music business. Find another major. So that's what I did. Wow, it's a hilarious story because after that, when I graduated, I up doing a lot of commercials around town. Out A recording and I would finish laying down the base and he would come into the horn step part of the horn section. He'll come in. Wow. And a final time that I met him very metal. Had a Constan certain Washington DC and use the highest orchestral and so I'm I'm practicing and I look down the Horse Section sitting right next to me and he's sitting right there. That's that's like one coincidence. So I don't think God has seter people. Girl. So, Larius, ha ha, that's amazing. And this is in DC, obviously. And you do you grew up in DC or no, no, I go up to New York. I was born in doc I moved up to New York with now about eight nine years old, Candia, and so I love New York and came to school and then ended up staying a DC for about twelve years or so. So then, how did you learn how to play the BASS? Are you just self taught? Are you taking lesson? PICK IT UP PLAYER? That's why I played upside down, the backwards. I picked it up the amazing by the time someone told me it was too late. I tried turning it the other way around. It just I don't know how you guys do it, man, I'm not wrong. You're wrong. It's it look the bottom, the fast strains on the bottom and all the law. Wow, I guess I never thought about it. I should have. So I guess I play at the wrong way. Absolutely. It's funny because I've been watching a lot of you play the last couple days and just on Youtube and whatnot, and and it's really somewhat hard to watch for someone it's just twist my brain up. So could you? Also, when you're doing the popping and slapping, it's like completely the opposite of what would normally occur, like you're you're slapping with your fingers and pop them with your thumb and it's just it's crazy to watch and you're so good at it. It just makes me it's like a disorienting thing of like what, how have I been so wrong? I appreciate the compliments, though, I guess as reasons. You know, it was always a work in progress and the sound is close, you know, it's close to fool people put this up quite you know, it's not quite a bump and there's so many tricks that you guys could do it I can't do you know. I try to find ways around it and sometimes I can actually hit the notes and make it sound kind of way, like triplets and stuff like that, but it's not quite to say. But but it gives you a completely unique sound, which is pretty cool. And you know I've I've when I first moved out here, I sub for you, you know, quite a bit. Like I remember, I said, with Chuck Wansley's band, which is a casual band. You know, like weddings and stuff, and Johnny Friday was a drummer and he was telling me one time that's like, yeah, it's really hard to it's really hard to sub for stand because of his tone, because no one can get that tone because you're you're kind of tapping the strings versus not always, but like you have this kind of it's not really slapping, but it's not really just a regular finger sound, and so it shook me out for a while. Yeah, I love Johnny Friday, you see's just we fell in love when we first met. And what he first got into town and he came in because he got called it the Chevy Chase show. Okay, and and he said the first phase came on are wants, the camera like turned on and he saw a chevy chase his face. He knew it was over. Pet My joke is done. He's not his. It was a buss and he was right. Yeah, and wow. Yeah, I think Tivy Chase actually admits that he just wasn't prepared. He didn't really take it seriously. He thought he was gonna go on there and just just keuf off. And it's too bad, because it the potential of that show was so cool. Sure, sure, he got a good reputation, had a good following. I guess some people take to it naturally. I think the main thing would it comes to a show like that, you can't took yourself too seriously. That's one thing I like about Jay lettle. Jay lettle, what you saw there was was Whoi wops, you know, and he felt comfortable. It was like it was like he was it is, he was on his couch...

...and so it wasn't the thing where he was trying to to be be somebody. He was being J lettle. But yeah, you know, I you know actually Chuck Washley saw where is the chuckle? Silwakia, very cool. Yeah, that was he's great, phenomenal entertainer and that that Gig just kicked my butt because I guess, yes, I was not the reader that I thought I was when I got to town and then and I was just thrown into that band of nominal players, you know, and and I'd also was near to town. I didn't have the vocabulary because I figure, I think each city has its own vocabulary, you know, and and I was from Denver, very different set of tunes than the La. So I got here and and you were like, yeah, you just, you know, play the songs, you know, and read the ones you don't like. Okay, that sounds great. No, it was like but it was like big band charts with very notated bass lines, you know, and and no courts Thos, you know, and those like Oh, it's like this. Okay, I'm gonna this, is Andy. Go One what after the other? Go, go, go, exactly. They're just screaming charts, charting. Yeah, Oh, chuck was Hilarius because he likes to be Frat. Can eat fives off being a frantic. So he's second, would say, the one thirty four. They won't grabs it while we're playing. Grabbed the next chart. Yeah, and now you know. Now I've been after twenty years in La No, no, I'm used to it and now it's good. But as a kid from Denver, I was just like what is this? This is and then, you know. So I'm sure at the time Johnny Friday just hated me and Emilio Plame was was the keyboard player, just fun. Yeah, phenominal players, you know, and I was just trying to keep my head above water, you know. Oh, no, I love I sympathize with yours not. That was not an easy gig. Stuff goes by fast and these guys have been doing it for a long time. They would calling for beech charts forever. So right, they knew. Look, they know the droll and so I'm sure they were understanding about it. So for Johnny Fotty, followed, man, no, he was sure to give me some shit about it. It was, you know, lovingly, I suppose. I don't know. He's a cool guy, great, great phenomenal drummer. So, like you know, and I had actually before I moved here, I was playing with Nelson Ranjel and we had done a show with Tom Scott. We're on the same bill and Johnny Frenday was playing drums. So I had run into him before. So I knew that the he's a monster drummer. And then I moved Lah and like two months later I'm sitting on the bandstand with him and I was a little intimidated anyways. But what a way to start your career in La. You know, just Jill, just trial by fire. You know, that's the way to do it for sure. So so you moved La. What brought you out to la? Well, that was kind of a our band and DC kind of a big fisherman small pond. At the time I was together with Aby keys and and amy got she got a record contract and she got called to do some side work on a movie, you know, not a speaking role, but you just had a lot to do, a lot of walking and a lot of stuff, and so she thought it might be excited to come out. So we moved out. I had about five hundred dollars. After paying for a bunch of other stuff. I have five hundred bucks in my car, you know. So what I did what anyone else would five hundred dollars in the car. Would do what they got to La and I got the best. I got a messenger job. That way I got used to getting around and going where everything is. And at night I pick up a few gigs. What was that to us? A legends of Hollywood. Have you ever played there before? Now? Huh, okay, it's a little it's a jazz place sets on Hollywood Boulevard, and so I played there at night. Now was well about forty a night and met a keyboard playing and Karen her Dandos, and she basically taught me every song known to mankind. I played with her for about off and off, about three years and she very challenged. Knew how to company. Everybody, played any song and any key, and by the time I was done with her I knew virtue of the whole Blue Book. So made those Chuck Wallas Gigs a little bit easier. Yeah, and you eventually, I mean we're skipping ahead a lot, but you were talking about Jay Leno in for a good four years or so, two thousand...

...and two, two thousand and six, you were the bass player for the tonight show, which is kind of a dream GIG if you're in La. was that something that you had dreamed of being or is it just something that fell in your lap and you just did it, or it was one of those things that felt in my lab? So funny because when I was in college I was, you know, singing about being a musician, and so going to the meds school and of course I'm one of my mother's friends to go oh yeah, sure, maybe you'll play on the tonight show. But no, no, no. What happened? Just by chance. What happened was this showed this close to show you. Now we're talking about casuals. I met the guy named Kevin Cloud, drummer here, and I click pretty well and got to be good for friends. He got a show with Harry Mendel and called me for it, and so I played that. They didn't have any space use on paramount and they didn't have any space at paramount, so they did the recording at NBC studio one Jay Letto Shows, some studio to out across the hall. So I got the bee friends with smithie do Wayne, smooth, Sweet Smith Jeremy. Thank you, Marba's, but not the way it's Metie Marvin's Y, right, Marman. Yeah, and so that show went under. I went back to play with Barry Manilow. Barry did a show on the tonight show and got a chance to say hi to everybody and and then we left to go to Milwaukee. We had we played, we played two shows and then we had a three days off. And and so at that time album berry had a whole lot of money. You had a private jet. You Soa I'm going home and want to come home with me, and I was like yeah, I need to watch my clothes. And so I went home. I walked in the door, the phone ray as soon as I walked in the door, the phone ring and it was it was Kevin Du Banks. Wow, had not gotten on that plane then I would have missed a call and they were there were other people that were in line and so I would have missed that call. Someone else would have God and probably would never gotten the game. But I would not have been thought of had I not been on the Higher Mandy'll show and met Marvin and met Kevin and they had made knew me. They do my play. I would not have been on the higher man they'll show had it not been for this drummer. I would not have met that drummer had I not done the casual. Yeah, yeah, so the answer a question about stuff falling to your lap. But yes, I fellow my lap and that was it's an interesting gig. I remember at the time when you got it, you were talking to me a little bit about it and how there's it's not only like the bandleader you have to sort of please, but the network is is very involved and there's kind of a lot of pressure. Was it because of high pressure GIG? It's political? No, it's not. It's not. The Dig itself was it was enjoyable. I didn't feel any pressure in it. At the time I had a very good memory, you know. So, yeah, when I first got there, Kevin just said here's a hundred songs, learned deeds, and okay, I rememorize. I don't learn, learn the song. So right. So wasn't you playing pressure? It's knowing when to talk and when to keep your mouth shut, and TV's like that. TV is is can be pretty cut folks sometimes. Now now jay himself, he seemed like a very nice guy to other people with that are around there, that that seemed like they're very nice people. You have to be very careful, and so I was told not to talk to anybody. You know that we need don't talk to anybody. That's crazy. You know that what's past the one in the hallways. Say Hello, you know. But I will say this. You know, in general it was it was typical TV, but the job is so was. It was some wonderful experience. I love every bit of it and that's all I can say because under a non disclosure. So got you, I understand. Can you talk about like the schedule? Was it a was it a is it a call? Really, Eric, I have more jealous bass players. But basically it was, you know, we going five days a week. Typically our call time was ten o'clock, we filmed it for and then we go home. Sometimes I'll car time, I'll call time was two o'clock and we filmed it for the go home. Wow. Meanwhile, you know, you can get all these residual checks. I remember complaining because I was getting so many residual checks, but we're going to do with all these checks high quality, because it's yeah,...

...right, right. It serves me right, doesn't that's that's Carl coming back to me right now as I yeah, you thought you're a hot shot. Here you go some covid for you, yeah, to checks now. Well, and you also got to play with other guests and stuff, and in artists and stuff. Did you need to accompany a lot of awesome people, like who are some of your favorite people that you got to play with? I got the most memorable one was Paparatti. I never would imagine any time in my entire life that would be playing with Paparatti, and so of course I asked them if I can put them on our red by resume. You only played one song, but you know, it was just just an amazing, amazing episode of my life. You know, just just I'll tell you the most amazing, most amazing episodes on how I Mendel show. I met play behind Dolly Park. Oh Yeah, classiest woman I think I've ever been my life. Just a sweet, down the earth, wonderful human being. Right. So we're talking about this, the music, and she's she's saying, okay, well, we got to figure out where we're going to cut it, because you know you'll have only have two minutes so you can take out this cellable. And when you see her, especially live, your eyes immediately go down, you down and it's of course she's wearing a low cut thing and and and she's black busting out all over it. So I'm looking and she can't just me looking and if I could turn red I would have you know, and she can't just be looking and she looks at me. She goes enjoying it. Why you can, and that's it. I love you. No, she's a very dumb person. But yeah, just work in the TV shows, going to check as people hand, a whole lot of different people and the whole thing was a wonderful experience. But you know, I continue to have wonderful experiences. Something playing with Barrios. Wonderful experience, you know. That's great musician. You know, I remember I called you for that a yeah, it was between you and Richie McBride and it was and you forward. Oh, great bass players. Well, great, get up. Well, I appreciate the call. anyways, just being in that, that circle of names right there is is accomplishment enough. You know, please, you deserve that, especially the way you saying, and I thought you would have been perfect for it. I think what happened was they found a person that everybody was, somebody would not guess you didn't know your name. So right, yeah, well, and you played upright on that as well. Right, yeah, yeah, it's so. How does that work with the Left handed upside down situation? Did it just the same? You just turn it down all the other side it. And it's funny because I didn't initially play up right and I kind of fiddle around with it every once in a while, but it never, never took a seriously when I first audition for very metal, of and they asked few play up right. That's it. Yes, can you say? Yes? So I really started working on it, working on it, you know, and so it after a while. It became more natural. Can you know? It's a different beach. You know, you can play up right to different kind of beat. So you're for arms become, you know, like rocks and and and you start to learn to listen to your tonation. It's a wonderful ass. I dig it. I think you just can't carry it around, you know, all right, but it's fun to play. It's funny that I did this video for Michael Bowl, a dream, as a wish of heartmakers for Disney, and so it did a whole orchestra thing and I was there, four bass players here and we're blowing, you know, and it's funny because we had music. We were actually just we weren't actually playing a part, but they were turned off the background music and you couldn't tell the difference. Everyone's playing the park it will have the music to play no part, you know right. And so we get to the very end of the shooting and they're going to do a pan out, you know, the boom of camel, and so they panned out. They panned out with the bass us...

...and then all of a sudden the director says, wait a minute, cut you. What are you doing? I'm like, I've been. I'm mistaking. Everyone's standing on the right side of the pace. I'm standing one of those times. They're they're pulling, I'm pushing. You know, we're going in the same direction, but they still notice it. And it was at the end of the day and it's like call, you know, there's like why do they send this guy here? You know, but I'm sorry, they could. They called Bass players about Bass player. You know, I'm sick. Everything was working fine until they did the pad. ha ha ha. Wow, that's a great story. Well, I'm full disclosure. I'm going to tell you the truth. I got the call. He said, do you play up right? You didn't tell me the artist was, but I had a feeling I that day when in bought it up right and and I started and I started practicing just just like yours, just like you said, you play up right? Yes, yes, and I haven't sitting here actually to this day, and I keep it. I try to keep it in the way all the time, so if I'm walking past, I have to play it, you know. So I've been looking on it ever since and that was shoot, that was probably six years ago. The last time that that that you had called me for that or something. So so I guess that's so. I did. I didn't get the GIG, but thanks to that call, I have an upright and I've been working on it and I can offer up those skills and the you know, it's a you go. It's an important opportunity regardless, you know. So it's vital. It was final. As far as far as being a side man, if you if you's such to a part with such true, a part of being a side man is being able to play upright and you're reading, of course, and being able to learn stuff quickly. I think one of the reasons why I will get so many jobs and people seem to be pretty happy with what I was doing because I wouldn't go on the on the gig reading those stuff the say of myself for somebody. By the time I got in there I knew it, I knew the show, and so they felt that by your memorize the show, you're you're showing your appreciation for them. Where you taking them seriously? I supposed to say, well, does give it a music and I'll play it. So absolutely important. Things aside, so there are a lot of us out of work right now waiting to get back to play and shows and touring, and I know I've had to do whatever I can do to take my mind off the situation from time to time, and one of the ways to pass the time is to catch up on some books you've missed. But if you're like me and you don't love to read, there's another way you can consume audiblecom has thousands of titles to choose from, including audio books about music production, songwriting, the music business, music theory, instructional audio books and biographies of Your Favorite Musical Heroes. But besides audio books, you can also listen to podcasts, theatrical performances, a list comedy and exclusive audio originals you won't find anywhere else. Right now, you can get a free thirty day trial if you visit audible trialcom dive Bar rock star. That's audible trialcom dive bar rock star, and you can catch up on your audio reading. I'd like to take a second to thank you for listening to the dive, Bar Rockstar podcast. As a new podcast, getting the word out as a vital part of what it takes to keep the show on the road, or off the road, as the current case. Maybe if you would like to support the podcast. All you got to do is subscribe wherever you listen and if you have an extra minute or two, please leave a review. You can also share and follow the podcast on your social media APPS. Okay, enough begging. I hope you're having fun and once again, thank you for listening. Well, let's talk about your record. You got a new record out. Came out fifteen. It's called string theory. Is Good and it's really it's really great. I love it. I've been listened to for the last week. So where did you record it? was that in the states or that was that was a cold? That was a covid project. So pretty much everything was done in the box. I did recording courts on my computer and I will call people up and ask them the semi files and if there was a time. There is a studio that's here and it didn't open up until the little bit later, so I was able to get some guitar in. The drums were done by Joey Malatti, who has a studio in Las Vegas, and so the drummer for Barry mantill happen to be in Bas Vegas and so they did recording there. They said little files and you know, I've got chocolate would have liked, needed to chop up...

...and then gave it to a mixing guy out here and whom Chocolata? Yeah, you know, I really wanted to do it the old fashioned way and every want to get it to the studio and knock it out. It was just no way to do it. All the studios were closed, people were separated and I couldn't get out of Italy and actually the still kind of a problem here. I can get into united safe without new problem. It's getting back out. Yeah, right, so that's what the album, that's all the albumed up put together and you know, so grateful for all the input that you know, everyone, everyone gave me great, great stuff, and a lot of times they had been to play in the box to they had to, you know, just you know, have a little home studio and the best they could and set me what they had. So how long we had you been working on the material? Is that all just written within since March? It was written pretty quickly. It was pretty quickly. It's not not they didn't have a lot of time. I had a couple of ideas, a few ideas that that we was sitting around sitting around and Sith. We had all the time off, had a chance to listen to it and revise it and then, you know, brought up charge. So yeah, yeah, I guess it all got all time. Songs got written about few months. So you'res You have to sit down and write songs. If that's the case, you can't just sit around and wait for inspiration. So that it was really a crafted record. Well, yeah, it was. It was a thing where where it took me out of the moment, you know, it gave me the opportunity to appreciate the fact that that we are musicians and we are creative and and and typically, I think that you probably feel the same way. It's like music has a way of putting you into into a bubble, you know. I think all your musicians, all of us, are in a certain bubble. And so the playing was like therapy and the writings like therapy. And and the more I wrote, the more I didn't like it and I rearrange it and then finally came something that I felt comfortable with. And it would you know, sometimes you write something and you think you needs to fit into a certain genre, and I got to the point at my age, I figured I need to stop doing that, you know, just just it was come with what comes to mind and play in the way that you want to play it, you know, without the restricted to a like that. I have a lot of experience in smooth jazz and s boot Jazz. Have certain parameters you have to hold onto it and in order for it to be get airplay. And I just, you know, broke a lot of those rules, especially with vocals, you know. Yeah, and I did. I did the vocals. It is just I am afraid to sing, you know, and so I decided that I was going to saying I was afraid of what people would think about my voice, and so that's what made me sail. Go ahead and do it, do it, you know. Yeah, you have to learn to be comfortable being uncomfortable. You know, you have to to expand your horizons and and and accept and accept criticism excepted. Nope, not everyone's going to like the album. Not everyone's going to like my voice. You know, some people going to laugh at it. So what you know, don't take a personally. You know, it's yeah, don't take it self so seriously, you know. So, so I did five, five vocal songs yeah, yeah, it's amazing. It's not what I expected when I when I got the tracks in the email, like wow, this is it is super cool, man. I mean I think you have a great voice and also like the melodies come out. You know, it's like you're not one of the singers that's just gonna be, you know, belting and improving and stuff, but everything's constructed really where, you know, and that's because like that. But I mean you found a great tone and you wrote a great melody and you wrote a great lyric and what else is there? You know, it's it's really, really beautiful. Thank you. Thank you so much. I I agree with that. It's Kevin Moo say something to me a long time ago when up but I first joined Kebo. I'm setting myself up. He comes up six some Michael Phone said, well, I don't say it goes. Yes, you do. No, I'm not a singer. Yes, you are it,...

...but he said, he said everybody sings. Everybody sings. So if you just saying and and sing what comes to your heart, sing it in a way that's honest, people will understand. I mean don't, don't try and do something that you you know, don't try to be somebody. You know, don't try to sound like louther you know, don't try to you know, don't try. Just let it come out. Yeah, and I think he was absolutely right about that. You know, there isn't a person on the planet does not say unless you don't have a voice at all, and they don't. Mick Jago could make a living doing it up. Builder can make a living. Ha Ha, and the list goes on and on. Yeah, yeah, so I continue. That's funny. Well, it's interesting just working. Yeah, I'm sorry. Well, it's interesting too, because I think you get caught up in the La sort of the competitive nature of this town and and I can imagine that you don't want to if singing isn't your strong suit, you don't want to even think about putting it forward. You just want to put your best stuff all the time. and I wonder if, like moving like now, you live in Italy most of the time, right or some of the time, and I wonder if, just getting out of La and at out of the intensity that it is and having a career that's a little more established now, we were able to relax and just open your mind to stuff. You I think you're right. I think you're right. I mean and helped a lot. You know, it's saying a lot of black rob but when I came to Italy, they tell you the truth. They don't know. They don't know what you know, if you're good singer or bass singer of the CR that you're black guy. And so it was a little bit easier to saying sing in public and lead a band and saying, you know, front people little bit more accepting of it, right, you know, as opposed to la or at laughter. Will you have some some chiller singers, and you open your mouth, if you don't come correctly, then you know, that's your reputation, right, yeah, right, it's like any plays base, okay, but don't know him saying. Yeah, I hope you don't mind. Give it. You will call, you get a chance to talk to you. I hope you don't know my st because my clothes sho asking you to give good and I'm not asking you try hellos. Love you thought my heart if you but I'm just as I guess I should. I get more of my page and I guess I should. And I don't know why. I went out with friends. I don't know why. Well, I also like in dreams and with you tonight there's a lot of fretless stuff to which I don't I don't think I've ever heard you do. Is that a new thing or is that just oh no, no, not. I typically don't. Don't play them on gigs because you know, frontless there's some very tricky animal, you know. You one wrong move, one little teeny tidy move, and and all of a sudden you're out of tune and and just it just throes you off. But I figured you must do something different. You know, it's funny everybody, the Bass players, using when they put out their own album. Everyone tries to sound like like Marcus Miller or Raymond Tin Stale. You know, it's just it's it's a lot of popping and stuff like that. And of course the ill kind of went that way too. But but this one of the introduce something else. It's another, another thing, and I think the I think frontless has a beautiful tone, as it's very verstible base, it's a lot of fun to play. Yeah, it's yeah, as beautiful and yeah,...

...it's not fun for me. I'm I'm a little I'm so obsessed with the tuning to it's just it dries me nuts a little bit. But so to hear you play it so great, it's like, okay, I need to I need to work on my chop some more again, and now that I have the time, yeah, we have plenty of time for that, but it'll, trust me, a lot of not a auto, two here are there. It's it's a trick at I admire guys who complained that instrument and and make it sound good and make us out in tune and not even look at the front pourt just that is that to me. It's just amazing. Yeah, and it's the thing. It's a thing that makes it so expressive is that you do have that freedom of, you know, winding up to notes or whatever. But it's also the thing that makes it just horrible and rent to try and play. Oh, all the mistakes are just disaster. It's I remember you ago that first got it up. I took it to a go was so excited, you know. So I've shed it on as a little while, felt without pretty good at it and took it to a GIG. It was just what a bess, what a mess. Yeah, we're go. Plus, I was reading, so I'm looking at the paper and I was like, what hold of I playing? It's just like a I'm like a just a quarter toone off all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's frustrating times now days. Two that there's no liner notes. So pardon some of my questions, just because normally you could just look and see. But so strength theory Super Funky, so great and know. So who's playing guitar on that? Are you playing the guitars and stuff or no? No, no, I'm not that ostentatious. I mean that's a morsel'connor, but working a fire and Dal Darl Crooks, he's out of a carol. Oh, yeah, I know, there. Know, yeah, it's funny because what happened was I I sent, I set a track to Darrell. By mistake I meant to send it to Marris, and so by the time I by the time I told Darryl Darn alori finish it. I mean he Darrell, he's very efficient guy, you know. So he went in there and knocked it out, not that I gave a few tub if you knocked all the tunes out, and he gave me a multiple tracks form and and so I sent them. I sent him an email said. You know, that put a hold on string theory. You know, I made a mistake. I meant for more for connor to do it by that time, you know. You know he's on the tracks, and so I added Morris and then realized with two of them they play off each other, the two of them, you know, the styles with the funk style of a very similar but then again, you know, they had their own niche and so it's just great. It was great and so cool. Those are those happy accidents that happened during production. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was well and not disappointed with it all. You know, I thought it was just like, I'm so glad for both of them. Do I get it was meant to be. I had a feeling. One of those is darrel, it sounds he's so funky. Yeah, one of my favorite oar players have. Sometimes we have a comment belt. Yeah, and then...

...you get to fine and it's shifts gears into some blue zy, just laying it down, funky stuff, you know, very kind of Otis reading bill withers. Very cool. Where the inspiration for that come from? That's Kevin Moo. Yeah, you know that he I I love him like a brother. He's kind of like my gurgle. And one thing that that he told me was to know, keep it simple and keep u some poll you know, you look at you look at people who who have a really great skills and they they the biggest hits. Let's say that Stevie. Wonder what is he's written all kinds of great so what is his number one hit? I just called the same to say I love wow, staying Rolle, incredible stuff. Well, was his number one hit. You got me on that one. Ever, remove you may, yeah, but simple, you know. So it's just one of those things. I just wanted to wanted to express that kind of feeling and also, as far as alerts a concern, it to a doubt that had something to do with the whole thing that was going on with all of a sudden not having any work and and I'm sitting in the press to hold work about the future. It's like, what the white what are you worried about? But why worry about it? The word is not good, to my point, to help anything. And if you back up, we look at the whole picture, everything is wonderful. Life has been wonderful for you. You got some savings. Just be creative, and be grateful, you know. Yeah, so that's what that's what it came out. That's great. Much crazy talking to you. Like me, I got a lot of things to say and before I let you go, tell it hasn't been sometimes it gets a little I got my com man. Is this your first shot at writing lyrics? Oh, no, I've written it before, but this is the first time I've actually had this as something like this, this kind of project where I'm writing for myself and writing to the six step, you know, and it's a fun thing to do. It's fun to take of words and make the words work together. You know, it's yeah, so you mentioned like gigs in Italy. So you have a band there that you're playing this stuff out and performing these songs and stuff? No, no, at this point. No, I have friends that are out of here. The Guy who plays SAS on on. I don't know why. His name does Johnny Vancheini, and yeah, just happened to live next close by. I did. I did some work on this album years ago when I was in La and when I got here. So was it. Do you remember this guy, Johnny Van Cheti, that you played for? Yeah, remember him. So, when he lives about twenty minutes away from you, like I know. So we played together a lot. So we have kind of a smooth jazz thing happening. I have a blues trio and that's about it. Not have a good friend of mine to go play with and we just play whenever we kept. Let's cool. It's a great record, man, congratulations. Thanks so much, but I would appreciate it be Sud you having me on and and you know it's like one of those...

...things, but don't I don't really care so much about it. It's selling. It's more of a just kind of expressing something that you have to get out. You know, something you have to say, and I folcus saying it's like you get tired of trying to fit yourself into a box or playing, you know, things exactly the way somebody you expect you to play them. And said, okay, like you said, you know you don't we do a blue song. You won't do the blue songs. Well, it is supposed to be a smood jazz album for most. Not. Yeah, I do like a little RMB thing. It's like, well, it's the what is that? This is this is kind of dated. So, yeah, dated right, and I noticed you this this record like you're you have another record out caol connection, and it's a lot more sort of chap oriented, and you know it's great record as well, but it's different kind of record. Really it's more about the playing, where this is more about the groove and the VIBE and the lyrics. and was that a conscious choice? Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I think a lot of times, you know, people spend a lot of time showing the prowess, and that's fine, I think it's great. No, but but sometimes you want to you want to ask for how is how does that make you feel? How does that music make you feel? What make you think about? And my my thing, I at this point, is to make myself happy, but to make other people happy. That's that's our job as musicians anyway. We take people and remove them away from from what they're thinking of when to you know, you try to make them happy. Yeah, absolutely. It's funny too, because you know, I've I can't I've come from jazz and smooth jazz in now I'm playing the country artist and I kind of went through some pop music on the way and it's like everything I do keeps getting simpler and simpler and and just down to the more emotional and more emotional and less less technical, and it might be just a product of aging as well. You know. No, no, I think, you know, I think. I think it's a great path. It's a great bath of country. I Love Country Music, you know, I love Nashville. We go to Nashville. You seen those musicians out there? Oh yeah, it's crazy and the writing means something. You know, I'm not talking about the guys who sing about beer and pickup trucks. I mean I'm talking about the people who who write songs, you know, and there's so many of their right, great, great songs, you know, and I think country leaves herself to that, you know, where it's not so much what's being played the court being played. This is what the lyrics are talking about and how the person who is pentical. So yeah, I I think there's a good thing. And Push your job. Your job go sees you can do your taxes while you play. I mean, yes, I mean honestly. The Dwight Gig was the hardest Gig for me to learn, though, because when you have so few chords compared to Kikumatsu e or Lee written o or something. There's a million chords in some of those songs. It's almost easier because there's something to grab onto. Would you only have three chords and all the songs have the same three chords. It's like where does that for chord come you know, that's harder to memorize in a way than you know what I mean. It's it was hard. It was a lot harder than I thought it would be as far as for the form out of the song. That, yeah, yeah, is this the song where the fork comes after? Oh yeahs is is this the bridge where for or is the one? You know, it's just there's so few things that you're dealing with. Everything starts to Mesh together in your head and and it really becomes about the melody. So and we you know, a lot of times you rehearse, you know, without the artist at first, because you know Dwight doesn't need to be there rehearsing his own songs, and without having that melody there, it's really hard to remember what cord to go to, you know. So it wasn't it was a really kick my butt. I don't know not I didn't like assume it was going to be easy, but at the same time, it's surprisingly difficult. You know, you'd Think, Oh, it's just three chords, but no, it's a thing, it's a lot do it, you know. Oh No, I can relate to that. I know exactly what you're talking about up in another situation. And what's even worse is, like we will say, if the person it's a simple song, the person who stops singing the melody and as there's a guitar solo and all of a sudden you start playing on another song and was looking at you like you're like what exactly? Yeah, exactly, and I imagine that you probably run into a little bit with of that with Kev Mo, because it's he's a blues guy. I mean he's got...

...he's on the other well, it same with tight, I guess, but he has some more complicated, you know, charts, and that's what's kind of awesome about Kev Mo. Really he's got these some songs are very modern pop songs and then others are just straight up dealta blues. But even with that blue stuff it gets confusing sometimes because, like they have weird forms sometimes and it's not always just a straight twelve bar thing exactly. A lot of the stuff changes and he changes it as he goes. He's one of those guys who have to watch and you come to the point now where we don't we know each other so much. We we think like you know, I can tell where he wants to go and so I know how hes sets up his chords on where, you know, and and he may He may stay on a section longer than you is you go. You know, or he may just out, you know, stay on a section, he's talking to the audience and all of a sudden go to the B section. You know. But if you play with the mom and know, you can see you could a lot of indicators, you know, let you know where you're gonna go. And he's got a really big catalog to is it. Do you have to just know all that as he calling songs, or do you have a pretty set set list every night? We have a yeah, yeah, we try to change his mind a lot. He expressed us to know a lot of what he does, you know, and so he wants to feel comfortable. He's not the man Dang like that's one of the sweetest guys in the world, but he expects you didn't to know him. You know, and so he'll I think he gave us like maybe forty songs that he really likes. It's like, okay, well, we have to at least be familiar with those. So if he this size, at the last minute, you know, someone calls calls a song out and you just decide to do it. You know, got to be kind of familiar with it, and that would happen a lot. And you know the thing is, I like his song, you know, so wasn't it wasn't like it was a chore listen to US stuff. If I had any problem, I'd look at him and he knew me well enough to know what Matt Panic look look like and he he'll sing a song and go to the flat three. It's just very quickly, let me know where to go. That's cool. He yeah, I went a great gig. I played a lot of blues in Denver before I got to La so you know, you have these within the blues community. There's some purests and traditionalist that never want anything to be different, and there's you know, I was always more like the Robin for or the Bonnie raid or the Keb Mo, and I really love that. He kind of is a master of both. Because he's he'll do the straight up, like I said, like a Delta Blues thing, but then he's got some really cool like pop tunes, and it sounds like a really fun gig. Yeah, it is, it is. and He's good at Americana. I mean he understands that. He understands what the Blues are, what the Blues are there to express, and so he has to look he has the Sauna. So and he gets up on that stage and he very warm and and you know how y'all doing, and it's like the he brings people to him. He says, I come, come on up here, come on, stay here, so play this space. I won't come on right here, you know, and it's always a good time, always a good time. That's great. Well, I have to give you a big thank you because, you know, we were one of the first people I met when I came to La and you gave me a call on a Tuesday night when I remember very well, I need a sub for Kakamatsuey on like the Saturday. So I remember meeting you at a gas station later night, getting all the charts working my ass. I memorize the whole show before Saturday, just because I'm like, I don't want to blow it, you know, and that ended up eventually becoming the next twelve years of my life, you know, and came a pretty huge career, you know, for me and all over the world and stuff. So I really appreciate getting that call. How did you enjoy working a CACO Y S I candy? I had a thing for Kikos. She's so cute. You're doing with this guy, causewayway, she's a great person, and so I saw her. I think I did one of day cost cruise when she was there. And she plays now. I mean there's a certain freedom that she has now. You know, before everything was very structured. You know, you played the song pretty much the same way, your Solos almost the same way every night. Now it's like, you know, I think I'm going to be herry tonight, and she go we love this. I love that different person all together. Yeah, yeah,...

...you're referring to her ex husband, Kazu, who was he was kind of the boss. Like when I first got there, he was still there, obviously, and he was the boss, the producer, and he did most of the talking. She would have her even her speeches were rehearsed. You know, and then he would come out at the end and do the real talking. And Yeah, it was a different vibe. I was there, you know, obviously I was on the Gig with they were divorced and just got to watch her just blossom as this player that we're like what, Oh, that's how it's going to be now, great, you know, we're gonna actually just have moments musically and like, you know, be here in the same space and play music. What a novel concept, you know what I mean. But did you get along well with Kasi? I mean, I still got along with Kazusa. It was a different kind of thing and he was a funny guy, you know, but it was a very heavy handed kind of thing. We thought he was fine. You know, we had a falling out when I got the tonight show. Good, because we like that was when I called you. Wasn't no, no, no, you were working with Mindy a bear, and I'm not sure. Okay, hid, okay, yeah, because I had a summer tour with her and then that February the tonight show came up and so I called them and I told him wouldn't be able to make out. Put it, make it for a summer tour and he says no, Stom, you say you going to play someone. Who Play someone? Look up, but I just got a job with a night show. I'm sure I'll show you want to stand. He didn't understand. So we had a falling out. Got You, yeah, which happens in those are some of the decisions you got to make. You know, as a as a working guy in La that was a lot for me to get used to. Sometimes do I never have the tonight show come up. Not yet, though. You know, you went on to do the tonight show. Jonathan Dressel was a drummer. He went on to do the Jimmy Kimbil show. So I keep waiting for my show, like when is my show? That's right home, good time will come. So are you? Are you still, I mean just real quick, are you still like covid hit Italy the worst? What part of Italy are you in? First of all, I'm in ventice. I'm a place called Moya Mo Ya. It's the main lamp about us. Wowkay, yeah, we're in the thick of it. Yeah, so it's a beautiful it's a beautiful punch of bullet. So is it recovering now, or is it still still a mass or we had another spight. Yeah, we have to be kind of careful you, because we have a huge older population and initially, I think everyone here, fortunately, they followables and and everyone's mass up. You know, you go into a store and everyone has to wear ask no question about it. Well, thing about the culture here as well, that's will calls the spreads or earlier, earlier this year, is that when when people meet each other, they conkiss each other. Could you'll kiss on each other cheek and very close for touchy, you know, share food. Yeah, so, so it's kind of hard to change the customs and but we will make the food will be okay. You know, it's just a matter of it wants to play on top of it. Yeah, and it's another strain is coming out and it will going to be battand as seem for a while. But I think the vaccine, like you said before, the vaccine probably service as to light at the end of the tunnel and couldn't happens sooner. I mean I this, but it's hoping to get this in distributed, give a handle on it and so we can all get back to work and they will have a normal life and and I old people won't be freend. Yeah, right, right. Had A friend of mine who said up, well, other people who are dieing, you know, they're people who have your conditions, and there's old people, and I'm like, somebody, me just open. One day, if you're lucky, you're going to be an old person. It's like life, life is precious to be able to live and breathe and be in exist in this this amazing thing. You know, it's amazing thing that you actually here. You know you're sitting, if you're sitting on this rock, just going the round a circle of thousand miles an hour. That's traveling through space just a little under light speed and we're here. You know. So, so life is precious, no matter how old somebody is, and I should respected. Yeah, absolutely. Well, anyway, man, I did. Thank you for that and thank you for being so cool when I got out here and and throwing me some gigs and getting me started, and thanks for coming on my show. And it's been so great hanging out with you. Man, Oh man, likewise, and I think I shall be such a such a great player of a great singer, great player,...

...and it's like it's a feather in my cap it all when I say hey, you got it, you gotta check out this Dioric Bin. It your kind of you don't make a favor. Well, thanks a lot, man. So interested bat strings on the bottom. That's a very confusing thing to new students. I find none if I'm teaching them, because you're saying no, go down in notes, but you're actually going up in the physical space. So he's totally right. It doesn't make any sense. It makes more sense the way he does it. He literally just turns the base over. He plays lefthanded and upside down, which you know, same as another guest on on our podcast, Bill Sink, plays the same way. I guess I don't know. Maybe I'm going to start trying it. I really like what he was saying about learn to be comfortable being uncomfortable, because I think it's the most important thing to progressing. kind of it anything, I think you know, change is always scary and uncomfortable, but learning is change. You know what you know now. When you learn more stuff, you will be a different person. I think it's a weird human instinct to fight against change, because it's not only just the only constant on the planet, but it's also kind of the only way forward. It's the only way to get anywhere. I really had to embrace that uncomfortable feeling when it when it came to approaching musicians at a bar that I had never met before, or like moving away from my friends and family or taking gigs with players that were really intimidating. And that's what happens once you moved to the big city. Obviously that was so scared to do casuals when I first arrived here, especially after that Chuck Wantsley experience. I'M NOT gonna lie. I mean I would easily take a week long gig at a bar for seventy five bucks a night before I would take a casual on a Saturday. But I'm so glad that I did because it made me a better player. And when it comes to the reading to it's it's kind of a hard thing to learn sitting in your practice room. You kind of have to throw yourself into the fire, and the chuck wants they Gig was that for me. It was just me showing up and and just holding on for dear life, and I do think there's a line. I don't think you want to say yes to stuff if you don't read at all, because then your career could end before it ever gets started, you know. But but I definitely think I always try to push myself and keep myself in situations that are uncomfortable and eventually you get used to him and then you move on to the next uncomfortable stuff and that's how you sort of conquer your way through music and in life, I think. anyways, that's how I've done it. He mentioned the Blue Book and how he had learned all the songs in the Blue Book and I searched in search and search and I couldn't find a link or anything to get a copy of it. But basically it's a book full of songs and there's every page has two songs on it. So they're really short kind of lead sheets of jazz standards and in any kind of wedding music that you would need. So if anyone knows how to get ahold of one, email me at fan mail at dive bar rocks arecom or on facebook or whatever and let me know, because I'd be happy to pass it along. I think it's one of those things you you come to La and you've sort of figure out how to acquire it. I also have a PDF version that's on my IPAD, but it's kind of a bummer to navigate when you're in the midst of a Gig and it's really intense. So Anyway, I've known. Anyone knows how to get ahold of one, let me know. And I said vocabulary earlier when I was talking about moving to La and not knowing the songs, but what I meant was repertoire, not necessarily vocabulary. Each city has its own repertoire. And also the sound cut out in a moment when we were talking about how long it took him to make his record and all the songs were written in about three months, in case you couldn't understand that. So there it is. Let's just call this season one twenty nine episodes. It's a weird place to stop, I think, but I thought if I went to thirty I might I might stop for longer at twenty nine. It just it begs to be finished. So I hope everybody has enjoyed listening and I want to send a huge thank you out to all of the guests who have participated in this podcast. Obviously would not be possible without them, and I hope everybody stays safe in these crazy covid times and I hope you have a really safe New Year's eve and I can't wait to talk to you in two thousand and twenty one. So happy New Year and we will talk to you soon. I hope you had a great time. Star. Wow, you've made it to the end. I'm hoping it's because you completely enjoyed yourself and are now filled with knowledge and inspiration to move forward with your dreams. If that is the case, and you would like to stay informed of new episodes, live events in general...

...news, please go to dive Bar rockstarcom and sign up for the mailing list. If you have any questions, comments, corrections or complaints about anything you here on the show, please email me at fan mail at dive Bar Rockstarcom and you may even end up on the show. We at the dive Bar Rockstar podcast with all of our hearts. Thank you for listening and remember, it's all about dreams.

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