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The Dive Bar Rock Star Podcast
The Dive Bar Rock Star Podcast

Episode 10 · 1 year ago

Mike Hill- Don’t Be Afraid To Ask (Postmodern Jukebox, Mad T Party)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Bass player, Mike Hill, recalls his experience working in a hit show at a Disney Park.  He talks about how he was able to turn that fan support into a kick starter campaign that earned over $40,000 to make his “Love and War” album and documentary. He explains in-depth how he put together a team of players, singers, writers and a producer to create and record an album of all original music. He shares the lessons he learned from the process and the dynamics between producer and artist. Mike talks about his time on reality TV. He also opens up about the trials and tribulations of living and working in Los Angeles.

Love And War Album

https://open.spotify.com/album/70Y7fgBG0zG0NQierUZNwl?si=3vL3nS__Rkioi0mGfdEG7w

Acquiesce (Live)

https://youtu.be/e1n3B8SoVO0

Love And War Documentary

https://youtu.be/z-W9eEhwR1E

Post Modern Jukebox Open Letter

https://aristake.com/black-at-postmodern-jukebox

Amanda Palmer Ted Talk

https://youtu.be/xMj_P_6H69g

Do you love audiobooks? You can get athree thirty day trial membership to AUDIBL DOTCOM by visiting audiviletrial, dotcoms last dive bar rocks star. They have thousands of audio Boovtitles as well as podcast, guided wellness programs, theatricalperformances, Alis, comedy and exclusive audible originals. You won'tfind anywhere else get your free trial membership at audible, trial, dotcom,Flash Dibar, Rockstar, welcome to the Die Bar rock star,podcast, a show exploring the lives of professional musicians of all typestouring, musicians, recording artists, songriders engineers, farbands weddingbands and anyone making their living in the music industry, whether you'vedreamed of being a professional or you already are one. This is the Pod gasfor you im your Ose Eric Banes, and I hope that you not only find someentertainment here, but also some helpful tips, trade secrets and ideasthat will help you achieve your dreams. So there's a new website and a reallycool place to get music news, and it's called Rock celler magazine dotcom andit's based in L A and it's a lot of rock and roll and Pop Music News, whichis pretty cool. If you're into that stuff bor, they also just started anindependent artist program where you can go and buy CDs if you're, stilllistening to CDs, which a lot of people do, and you can still get them here atthis website as well, as did you CA, digital copies of Um, independentartists and one of those records on that list that you can buy is my recorddive by rock star. So if you wanted to get a copy of that CD, that's a greatplace to go. It's Rock sellar magazine, Dot Com and the person that's headingup. This new independent artist program happens to be my guest today, becausehe's also a great base player in a really great dude he's originally fromCanada. Then he spent three years if Nashville, where he recorded withVinskil, Brent, Mason, Steve Warren, Ricky, skags and others, then he cameto Los Angeles where he currently resides and along with playing allkinds of gigs, he became bandleader for a show called the mad tea party atDisney's California, adventure, which I was also part of, which also led to him, making a recordcalled love and war. He raised a lot of money through kickstarter and puttogether a team of singers players and engineers to make a really cool record.He recently revisited this album by doing some live ihed videos and he usedsome players from the record and singers from the record, and also someother guys and some newer players and the series of vewtwo videos is calledsafer at on performances. So you can check that out and by the way theindependent artist program just launched this week. So we didn't talkabout it in the interview, but you should check it out anyway. Rock Cellarmagazine dotcom, so please enjoy my conversation withMike Hill. Well, the last time I saw you was atthe Fox and hounds playing right, N N, and this is called the dive bar rockstar show so that just you know how approriate you are Diaractar and a divebar rock star came to a DIVEBA xactly to wash ithat byrocks Ar, and that'sactually a song of my record called Da Barrock tar for two housand and nineand and two thousand n night. I was playing at the Fox and Houns at leastevery Thursday. You were saying there Friday. You know so that Wa. That was apart of that experience. Pretty hard you're. The ghost of Christmas present,the Elmet or from you know, right out rig asked yeah yeah, but that's do youenjoy doing the bars and stuff like that? Not really what Rony does that's Ri sure? No I've, as lot of us, have put a lot of timeinto those those bars. I mean you take a Gig and it's a usually aweek day or you know it's. It's t e time that you're not doing anything andyou KINDOF leave your your weekends open for the bigger gigs and I meanmake a couple o hundred bucks one fifty yeah hundred. I know it has gottenslightly better over the years and it is fun like you know, if you're playingwith the it's all about playing with the right people right, you know ifit's people that you you're like a Um, then it's going to be a hard onehundred dollars, toyead long e hundred dollars to earn being with the right people. T I meanyou could have a blast and just say that was a rehearsal or that was just a fun jam. You, you know you'rehaving fun Ye H. I mean that's the best way to look at it. There was a.

It was it's kind of a bar restaurantthat I I spent a lot of time in Palm Springs. Actually Palm Desert no rocksfired fire, grill, Firehouse Grill Rock Far; ah Yeah Ther, you did okay clear,so they opened up and they wanted live music. So I was playing in a band atthe time of Palm Springs and they we were their number one choice. Let'sjust do it, you know we're going to go in there and do every Friday or everySaturday I can't remember it was Friday and Saturday. It was one of those andwe just did every weekend and of course, every time we'ere there someone'sbuying a shot. You know we'd have a segment for a basil or a drum so low,and it was just a fun time. People came there to party and it became this. Hugething like come over is a Badass band. We just di they allowed us to dowhatever we wanted to do. You know whatever, whatever music, whateversongs we wanted to do, we could change it up and people loved it and w we didthings like got up on the bar played up on the bar. You know we had wirelespacks we'd go play up on there n. We could walk up to strangers, sittingdown eating and sit on their lap and play. We can tell everyone to come upand we' dance with them on the dance floor, just really fun things Ray, andthat was a blast. I mean we'LD look forward to playing at those places. Imean yeah, this pthat place in particular, and Um man Ir's good, because it was the sameGane, good crew. You know yeah, but we really met on the show at DisneylandRight, California, Venture, I guess technically called the Matgi Partyrightand h. That was quite an adventure and I think something that's it'sinteresting to me because it it. It provides a lot of musicianswith a lot of work and it's such a. But at the same time it's such a corporatejob. You know Nyeah, I kinda G. I liked it one side of me.I'd, like L, know an er, be a corporate person like having the idea of a dayjob and like it was pretty cool, but you got to getused to like okay, there's, there's a list of ofsongs. You've got a rehearsed today and and whoever's leading the rehearsal isgoing to be marking those off and it doesn't even matter whether they'rewell played necessarily depending other thing. We just got Ta market off andthen we can go home. You know anyway, there's like that sort of thing, and Iwill say that when you came in it was a million times better than what it wasso wow it was wit, was w. It was wild from the beginning. It wasthe unproductive productive, rehearsals you've ever experienced. Youknow well also you're going eight hours a day right like two weeks or something.So it's a corporate job. In that sense too, like you're there all day, you'vegot assigned breaks. You know the Union job Um, I mean okay, but you have twothree people per position that are all trying to rehearse at the same time.Guess which is odd so at first, because it was four drummers for base players.They had everyone in on the same day, in the beginning, gosh so and plus allthe singers so you'd run through they don't hears the things ecause. It wascorporate, they didn't want you to woark her songs at home, only rehersthere. However, you get pretty much one pass, so I go up and play for instance,and we go through three songs. Well now you have to have a fifteen minute breakfor everyone. So there's three other bands waiting or in that fourth bandthat doesn't get a chance until maybe the afternoon is just sitting there and then how I take a break sit theretake lunch, sit there, take a fifteen minute break and then you play yourthree songs. Then you go home man one time. Each yeah is what you aregetting paid, but you are getting paid file time. The whole time you're thereand it's not it's not nothing. Like you know it's a t w. It was a decent payingunion thing. You know H, but wow yeah, but you would think that there'd be abetter way to do it than they kind yeah. They kind of figure it out and it got alittle bit better a little bit more. You know streamlined and Ou know allthat stuff yeah, but I mean I'd like to know your take on the whole thing,because I think my experience was a little bit different from yours becauseyou came in yeah. I came in very. It was like a restart of yes show. Theyhad canceled the show and they brought it back and then I came in then so really it was just me and did youknow anything about the show? Yes, I had seen the show. A few Tim got it.Okay now could you imagine like when I came in. We had no idea what the show was goingto look like. We had no idea ho if t what the stage was going to look like,we didn't even know the gear. We were just rehearsing for this unknown eventright, it was gon t it was supposed to be cool and a lot of us personally didn't think it was going tobe Cool Right D. we're just you know. This is just a GIG. You know we're allhere and Thi. You know we're all taking...

...this GIG, because you know it's money.You know it's Disney could be so you can get something out of itlater. Maybe you can connect with more people, another network of musicianswhich it was ow as the biggest I think, one of the biggest greatest thingsabout it was to be friends with everyone, and out ofthat, is this whole other musician ecosystem, because you know, as youknow, in l, a there's so many pockets of musicians and it's hard to get inthat pocket when you're in you're good right. But it's like as a stranger whoare you, you know nobody, he everyone's trying to get in. You have to havesomeone with int to pull you in almost like an exclusive like nightclub, likeyou have to know someone in the C Soebouncer will let you in nd, thenyou're in and you're cool and everyone's cool. That was that was likethis. You know yet that opportunity be this, this new forming network and weall started unknown like we didn't even know whatwe could get away with. There was no rules they wanted to to do something,but not knew how to explain it 'cause. They didn't knowyeah, so they're HHEADOF, developing the show like just as we're going alongW, and then it just turned into this once the show started it was. It was alittle timid at first with the people in the state. It's like you know. Howdo we? How do we perform? How do we KINDOF get into it? Are we playing Thopeople just walking by or we pe playing the people that are stopping and I, butit end up being a stopping thing. Wer B were walking in and stopping and acrowd would start to build up, overhime and you're like okay. This is a concert.Now it's not just it's n, it's not a tiger and a cage. It's not a zoo. It'syes! Interaction E, never seen the show you're everyone's in, like crazycostumes make up. I mean we were the march hairs and we we were in rabbitears in dspandek and doc, Martins and like wigs and iner, and making all thistogether and jumping around like crazy right. You know it's it's an insaneshow, so I can't imagine be well it's interesting that youkindof watched that evolved, because by the time I got there, it was fullonlike I knew what I was getting into right and that you Kinda knew what youget into and then, when you get into it, you're like wow, like you have to catchup in a way. I Oh yeah, big time right, like everyone's doing all this stuffyeah. Where do I fit into this? It was an Improv GIG B t not musically. Yes,Oh death, right Dalin, so you play t e same parts yeah, but you never knew what you're going to do.It was almost like a whose line is it anyway on stage someone coald come upto you and YOUV got to react to that 'cause you're? Technically you're, notyou you're a character, you're this character. What is that character goingto do? What is your interpretation of that characterre going to do right,yeah, which is pretty interesting, that they? Let us do that where we in M haveour own persona yeah, that Carin there superunusual Yeater,Disney 'cause cause Disney, is also like join the army Ogot to have yourhair certain length, ca beard. You know all these sort of stuff like that, so wwe were kind of the rebels, absolt 'cause, we whatever we wanted yeah.That was our excuse. Oh, was Si we're on Madt, Oh okay, yeah, and I'm telling you like from thebeginning. It was interesting where it was like. I was saying it was timid andwe didn't know what we could get away with and then we start to realize.Where is this line? Weriwe can't cross thet? It is Disney it's somewhere.There is a line somewhere a LO. A bunch of us were like okay. How far can we go right and we start totest the waters a little bit. You have to test. You Know Eah, the hot stove.You know. When are you going to get burnt? You know for o what you do onstage and and respecting the park, respecting that you are Disney in frontof children, an all that R ho don't do anything crazy, but it's also a rockshow, but it's a wron show it's not there's some pretty heagar stuff you'rea rock star on stage to somebody MHM. How are you Goin to you know? How areyou going to Anit's? Also the that park serves alcohol yeah. So it's a littlemore adults. It's not like playing in front of it's a small world, O Kno. So there is, the line is a littlefarther yes, but they're still aline it was is crazy and af after that sort ofevolved like hey. We can do this. We can do that. Now, I'm going to do this,and if I do this to you, how are you going to react? So if I came up to youand did something, what are you going to do and then how am I going torespond? A lot of you know, communication on you know on stage yeahyeah it was fun yeah, it was fun. I mean yeah. It was fun, I leave it athat it it was weird, but it it was fun D and I became a way better performerbecause Ihad, never, yes, that was the first time I sang sort of allowedmyself to go into the s type of a Gig.

You know it's it s way out of myComford Down Lt's. Let's do it and m. You know, I'mso glad it Didwr we're we're glad that you came in think yeah very gies yeahye hi it. It was a lot of fun sgon on the other great thing about it. Is thatthere's this massive amount of diehard fans yeah that you have been quitesuccessful, an sort of steering them in the direction of beingfans of yourself and right? You know turning that into sort of another project called LevinWar Yeah. So we had all these people come and which is great and we play toa crowd, but with Disneyland there's a lot of annual passholders, so n littlebit different than Disney Worldwereis, a new crowd every every night. Thistime it was almost the same. Maybe three three fourths of the crowd wasthe same crowd with New People and so as the same people watching the sameshow. But yes, it was the same show, but it was different because the Improvthing came into effect, where anything COAN happen on stage right and that'swhy they came what's going to happen tonight and everyone was eager to gosee what's going to happen tonight, right, ow and and people start to befamiliar with. Oh It's this guy as the march hair tonight, or is this guy youknow being the manhattor or the drummer and people start to make favorites theystart to come out to their favorites because they like how they interpretthat character, and so they come for that person, R or these people. So you start to see the same peoplethat come to see you all the time and they usually want tocome ne more near the front, then there'se, guys that just come to everysingle show, which is great ry. So out of that, my experience was we're just doing thisshow. This is great. Oh great there's people now, there's people takingphotographs and they're finding us on facebook at first it was like this isgreat. I would I wouldn't mind getting photos myself, I'm sure, and thesewe're talking. The people have nice cameras. Yeah they get the niceprofessional cameras, not iphone. It's the big SLR cameras. It's awesome, youknow, and so now you're I'm fishing around looking for good photo. So I canpost tsome and then I'll say hey so, and so did this I'll tag them great andthen all of a sudden, there's more and more and more and then all of a suddenthere's all these photos and all these people and they're all requestingfriend requesting you N facebook Andrand at the time. Tumbler was a verybig website for blogging. God did he have bloggers blogging about you. Theyhave instogrand people about you, you're, starting to get tagged, leftright and center all over the place, and then they want to be your friendand th. So you go. Do I accept them or don't keep them await? So a lot of usmade fan pages or artists pages in the artist page was a way that fans caninteract with us and not get into our personal page, which was great at first.However, we started INV, you know, you start toyou start to see the most fi you know familiar faces. You start to add 'em toyour personal. You know. FACEBOOK is her growing and growing and growing,and it was crazy like over the years it was a lot reakin a lot right, a lot ofpeople, a you know like I accumulated a couple F thousand more people that areconstantly active with me on facebook. In its wild, like you know, people riding in the inbox orpeople want an show hey. I did this great video of you awesomony is thatyou know- and I was therein to be- I guess- to learn a little bit about me,and so a lot of these fans were wanting to know the person under thecostume RTWHO. Are they? You know, there's this fantasy withthese people like? Oh, they look so great in this costume. What are theyunderneath? Nway right, rigtright, actually, but maybe thatmaybe- that right so and so they when you' start to then alot of us were posting. Hey, have another gig outside of Disney it'd, begreat to have a bigger crowd, it'd be great to havemore people out to my show, or May I do original music or so, and so doesoriginal music it'd be great to do show and have people come rather than hey,I'm in Hollywood, I'm going to do in my showcase and three people show up right.My Lo my dad and my sister or brother, I ht, you know that's how it kind ofworksbut. Now you got a hundred people show up to your show 'cause they liketo at Disney, and they want to know more about you. Now they fall in e withyour music. All in love with how you you know or just how you perform onstage yeah, and so...

...a bunch of us in the cast kind of I wouldn't say, took advyou took wetook advantage of the opportunity to be able to Um make more music because we, we couldactually see attengitable audience. Now wants to listen right and that's what alot of us did was we started doing original music and we had a a fan baseof that rver that right and so for myself. What I did was- I saw a couple of other friends: Dokick starters in what the kicksarter was is hey help me raise enough money,so I can do an album that I've always wanted to do or an EP that I've alwayswanted to do that. I could have never done before r o unless I saved moneyand do a side job and do this and spend a lot of money. Now we're like wait aminute. These people really want to see my original music or they want more ofmy original music, I'm going to give them the opportunity to make that apossibility for me and for them rightwhy, not it's AIAN, wind foreverybody, so these kickstarters were like hey. I need to raise. You know. Tobe honest, you need to raise ten thousand dollars to make so many songs.Things are expensive h and these kickstarters were actually verysuccessful. When someone asked for ten grand they'd make fifteen thousand yeah,when someone wanted twenty they'd make twenty five thousand or thirty thousandand you starts to see wow people are very generous and, and they really wantto see our or hear your music, they really want to hear it and they reallywant to see us succeed right and also not just to see a succeed but feel likethey were apart. Something bigger right, you know and there's another wayto interact and be a part of it for wrangor an and say hey. I helped make this right so yeah after seeingsuccessful, kickstarters happen. I decided you know what. Now these weresingers that were doing it singer, songriters, but I'm a base player yeah,and I don't know if anyone knew that yet I'm so. Oh yeah, that was my yeah. Well,let's get OKA rebut I wanted to just like, so you your goal according to what's still up there, it was thirtyfive thousand dollars you raised forty one thousand yollars like that's,that's pretty crazy, but, along with that you've got you've, got rewards setup. So those are a lot of work. You know likeyeah, so an a lot of 'em that you were o. You were offering like. Let's gohang out of Disney all day, you know and like was it as intense as it seemedlike, because I remembered actually playing some nights and you R, you wereout in the crowd with with some people that had had had, you know, do needed athousand bucks or whatever and Lik Gohang out. You know how was that the rewards were kind ofsplit up in in two different ways: There's tangible. You know physicalgifts. You can have right, so some people in an autograph Ct. Some peoplewant a shirt. Some people want assigned base by HAE people off the album right.So we had those separate rewards. Those were pretty easy to do. You know youjust had to buy those things. Shipping was probably the biggest expense out ofit all, but then the other side of it is quality of time right ohave forpeople that are away or people that just you know want a physical thing. Wehave that so there's kicks. There's kicks Ero rewards for that. There'salso kick starte. Rewards of people o are willing to donate a good amount ofmoney just for that one on one interaction that Oneon one experiencetogether that one and one Um, something that you know you'll, remember itsmemories, you're just rig you're, going for memories, you'r going for a goodtime, and imagine like I mean I ma a lot of us like you- couldgo to l, a or anytown, and maybe there is a local hero of yours and now o getthe OPP N, and maybe that person is very hard to get reached. You know veryhard to get hold of, and now you have this opportunity to just show who you are and find out moreabout them, and it was awesome for these fans and also for myself to learnabout each other and go like Oh yeah, like I've. Seen Y at the show a milliontimes you donated this amount of money, now we're together. What are you allabout? I Know I e? U Know what's Your Life Story and here's my life story andyou get to share that with people, and I think it was a really special thingto be able to do that. Um. On the other hand, yes, there were. It could havebeen long days too, if, like L, K, for instance, you said a day at Disneyright. The whole reasoning behind that was a lot ofthese people that donate are annual passholders, so ave they alreadythey're in free anyways Goiam a cast member, I gen for free, so there's nobig cost. So we can both go and do some rot. You know whatever they wanted todo. You know some Um.

Sometimes these these days were wedidn't even go on a ride. We just hung out Atright, you know Ri another timewas they wantd to get on, so many rides as many rights as we can and the oneswith the pitchures right, the ones like space, mountain pitchere, the RollerCoaster Pichur. So they can have those pictures and say, look what we did.This was so much fun. You know and there's also M, there's Disney days ofgroups solving me in a group of people that we all hung out a got to. You knowjust hang out right. Well, as for I mean w t you'd to answer yourquestion like how like intense it was. Sometimes you know. After a long summerday it was yeah you're, you're, burnt out 'cause you're talking nonstopyou're moving around you know it becomes a very physical thing, yeah. No,that you don't you didn't experience or Di h. You didn't anticipate to be, but I guess also like it was all ofthis: Did you do all the stuff aft Er? The record was done, or is this allpart of the process you R you're, trying to make a recond you're tryingto write songs, you're trying to ohyea get musicians in at different times andin the meantime, you've got to go take a day at Disney. You know, like you got,I g had to visit like Yamaha et a base. I had to go. You know, orders yeah. Itwas so the album took two years to do God. It took a long time, but the reasoning behind it is I just Ididn't want it to be hey. We got forties in the studio. We got to knockit out hand we're going to mix it. Time is money. You know, I I put myself in aposition where we can take our time to really capture. You know great soundsput time into it D. Yes, we did have some stude hours that were you know. Wewere kind of under the gun which is fine, but other than that. A lot of it was Um. You know just juggling like hey we'd.Do some guitars this day great or song writing the next day. You know it wasit's to be honest. The Kicks Orters, no joke is probably like the most work.It's it's honestly, more than a part time, job right. It'sit's like on the border of a fulltime job, yeah right, I wouldn't say it'sfull time- would just right under that you're. Putting that many hours. I Imean, I think, that's what I'm getting to yeah people that are thinking aboutdoing the kick starter thing like it's a thing: it Et's it's a time,especially if you're going to be making that kind of money. People want extrafor that in right, 'cause ther. There is put in the research into knowing hey.Who who can sell me the print the cheapasites there's also who can makestickers whos? Are you going to have merch? All these kicks are rewards. Youknow, like Um, yeah, R T sho offering who's GOINNA. You know make me that shewas teacher bbut, it's not going to be a crappy tshirt, so h, fror. For me, I did go lyric book. Igot a Voto book, I did picks. I did bracelets and in t shirts I did umautograph little. Thank you cards. I did buttons Um every patches right.Every single thing you can imagine ige little US b drives that look likebullets, because Tefe's world war, toot ans cool, you know meeting with an artist start to createconcepts, because that takes SOM time. Yeah then you got to make artheir.Artwork. Is No joke, it's yeah, it's pretty cool, it's not simple, yeah, thethe girl that did the artwork was Boi Carcia and she I mean she was awesomelike she would actually do sketches of us at Mat Tea Party of US W. I was like she's, so good andshe's, actually a professional artist. So I went up to her and I'm like hey.You know, itwould be awesome like I have this concept we start to. You know,go back and forth on ideas. A'd like I want it to be military. I kino wantlike something to it's. Love and war is so, is the conscept ewaft to something,love and and war together and make it all work out? And so I started ging.Let's do World War Two theme and so put a bomb in there and let's make it a acrest or you know kind of like a military patch, but then half hard inthere as well, but it's bleeding and all the stuffi was like throwing allthese ideas and she's like okay. How do I put this all together, like Ranyou,want all this stuff in one icon kind of a thing whut she did it.She pulled it off in his bad ass yeah, you Kocool. So it was. I I just spendtime. I my whole thing was quality 'cause I was looking at. It is likewhat, if I don't get to do this ever again yeah. This is my one opportunity.I've raised all this money. I have the money, I can do it, I'm not gonna. I'm going TA spend my time and do itright like do it the right way, and I you know the the lyric book was goingto be something simple as just lyrics on a page and we're going to like Photacopy, and then I was like no, it's going to be like a legit book. It'sgoing to be a professional book that you can actually find in a store. It'sthe same quality. Well, you know I did pay a little bit more money outof my pocket to make sure that these...

...things were at that level. Oreventhough the kick starter money gave me opportunity to make those things, Ihunt a little bit more money to step it up. One level: That's awesome, wellpaid off like crazy, yeah 'cause. The record is, is great thanks, eyit's,pretty incredible and like so. How does the person who so you don't sing? Noany you don't write, songs, reallyum, you not necessarily a producer! No, butyou made a great record how's that happen. So I mean the biggest thing I mean okay,so it all came down to this. Where a friend of mine, Jenny, kid did EP, shedid kick Sarter, it did great aoer, Noi Sen, the show yeah she was singer in thin the show- and I remember like she put it out there-it got funded. She could not believe it got fun and shes like Oh, my God, Ican'. Do it shed ad an album and we were sitting. I remember I went toone of her little rewards. It was a beach day reward right. If you donateedyou get to go to the beach with her and hang out a beech day, which is Great.It was high Wen herbeach day we hung out and while we're packing up she'slike hey, why don't we just you know, go over to our friend's house. She hasa pool hot tub. Let's just hang out we'll do like a little after party overthere, great so we're hanging on the hot TUP and she's. Like you know, after a couple of drinks likeMike, you should do a kickstarter, I'm thinking, I'm not a singer like. How would I dothat? How would I pull it off? She's like no, you can do it like. Just trustme. Just just do a kick starter he'll get funded and do whatever you want anI'm thinking well hold on. Let me be like realistic here. You know, I don't I don't the way I look at it. I'm sucha perfectionist that, yes, I can write. So I can write a song, but I don'tthink I'm a great songwriter. Maybe some people do but I'd rather usesomeone than I think is a fantastic songwriter. I would use that so Istarted thinking okay. What if I did the whole like Santana thing or herby,Hancock thing where they're instrumentalests they don't sing? Yes,they sung right a little bit, but how did they do their albums? Well,Santenna had all these different singers on every song, they haddifferent musicians. A'd like wait a minute. What, if I did that, could I pull itoff as a Bassplayer Asnot? Just like I'm R player 'cause, I'm in the frontor keyboard player, a piano player, I'm like the backbone rhythm section Kin,one of those kin, a drummer or baseware, pull it off right. I get Hem at adrummer and said I want to do an album right right, Yehav, the same thing forsure. So I was like okay. Why don't? I just put the strength in the rightspots. I'm great at base ill play base I'll,find a guitar plate, the Bast Guitar players. You know I could find RadeI'll use them I'll use my favorite drummers great okay. I got I got thespan now. This is great. I got good guys I'm going to grab people that Ithink their songs are awsome an he use their songs, people that I think canwrite some great songs. I mse them because that's their strength right andthen you know like the artist I use. That was her strength, I'm going to usehers and I use everyone strings to to be able to build this thing altogether,and I was just being. I was just placing the pieces right, you know andjust say hey. This is my vision and it was kind o cool to say I want this yeahand they can pull it off. I want that. Okay, no, not like that, but like this.Yes, I like that. I'm going to keep that you know and to see all like and what people come up with. You knownonunt artists or musicians, just like anyone, that's creative that are goodat what they do. It's like you have an idea. Okay, like let's say I want towrite a song about you know being in a in a bar and being a dive bar rock starright hen. I say this is my idea: D N: the person will start writing and startstart doing their thing. They get back and it's better than what I eventhought of. Maybe they wrote about. You know something that expanded off ofthat. You know that Oma place my mind, didn't even go and L E. Yes, that justblew my mind, that's perfect right, and so I grabb these people with thesegreat strength and I put 'em all together and I mean it worked yeah itworked. I grabbed a great producer, a great mixer. You know everything was and and what I did is also. I knew whatpeople's strengths were. rightand place them in this position. It's like a it'slike a professional team like a hockey team, baserasteameright, you want your the best defence in his position. You want the you're inthe playoffs you're, going to put the best guys in there. That's what I did.You know and I was being executive producer out ofit all right and saying. This is what I want right. So I'm acting as the coachand I'm saying Oky you are the best for...

...or you're the best guitar player you're,the best singer. Okay, now I'm wrihting these songs. We got this Great Song Ri.He was rigting this incredible song, we're going to pitch it up a key we'regoing to pitch it up. Can't you pull that off and they're going yeah. Yes,no. I think you can pull it off. It sounds better in this key and what I'ddo is I t stretch these guys a I knew their abilities 'cause. I know thatthey can sing, I'm like, let's not play it safe. I Like I want I'm Gongto likestretch you to your limit and that's what I did. I did that to the drummers,I'm like yeah. That was good take, but you got to give me more yeah and I knowthat there's more, let me see that fire like. I know I've heard that fire I'vefelt that fire before from you gave it to me because that's what I want tocapture and from the singing and from the Guitar Plang, I'm like this was Ta.Badass part, but like what? What can we do? Els like what what's going tostretch you? You know pyfically, mentally cratively and and basicallyind grabbing the best takes of the the the top of the range pretty muchancatured it ndeated. Well. Well, it came out great an so. Those are allproducer. Things had you thought of yourself as a producer. Previous tothis, have you produced records before? No, I think today a producer is differentthan it was in the seventies. I would say: 'cause a producer now is doing alot of engineering work right, and so, if I was just I mean I guess, my rolewould be executive producer, but more of a handon like I'm in the studio, soit was on t. It was like Mor on the seventies prettyseventies producers fora lot of you that aren't musicians are ar in studio. So you have a guy. Thatis an engineer he's the one that knows how the gear works right and Tually. Hehe's the one getting paid pretty much probably the least out of everyoneright right. You have an engineer, that's knowing how to set levels andget it already. The musicians are usually being paid, the least, but unless they're a Sassion Guy Rigt, andthen you got the producer that it's a direct, it's pretty much the directorof a Roum right, which is a producer right. So a director of a film istechnically what I think Ron Howard said was Um directors protect the story: Okay, Nice. Theymake sure that the stors is interpreted the way it should be, and I think that'the way a producer music producer is. They are making sure that the song iscoming up the best it can um. You know taking chances, Um, trying experimentsout and seeing you know what, if we did this- and maybe you might hit gold onthat- you know on that idea, and the great thing about music is that you canrecord something and th can e race it and just rerecord over it until you getit right right. So, but a good producer will know in his head like muttlayingor something like that N. I know exactly what this needs and willpinpoint. Itexyou need to do it exactly like this on the guitar. Here's herpartboomothat cou that could that guitar part's great, but it needs tohave a melody in t oky play the melody. That's the part boom you KNO 'cause.You also did a documentary. At the same time, of all this stuff andit'sinteresting. I just watched it yesterday and like it's interesting, to see sort of yourevolution as producer guy coming out throughout the thing and then there'smoments. So you did hire a producer David Kid yeah, Jenny, kid's, husband,Um and there's. I think it's sort ofthere's JU scene in the Dogumenter it sort of comes to ahead in a way of likeyour producer, dthis is coming out and his producerness is getting squashed alittle bit and Um. How was all how did that all turn outand like is, is that if you had to do over again, would you maybe hire him asan engineer now that you feel do you feel more confident as a producer? NowI wouldn't have changed one thing, yeah! I'd be honest. I would have changed onething at all. I think there was a scene that I mean therewas, there's manymoments that weren't captured on the documentary, but I know the scene thatyou're talking about where we were kind of budting heads a bit you know andwhere, which I'm so glad you left in, because it's super reel and it wassuperreel and you could feel the intensity in the room yeah even waymore than it was on camera. It was this very unsure moment where we wererecording a song and I wanted it a certain way and I'm Woni'm wanting it. It was I mean. Sometimes you get to aposition where you want it like something, but you don't know what thatis right. You know inside where it should be of how the song should sound,but you still don't know how to interpret it because you don't youdon't know how to you, don't have the language to do, and so David was also trying to do that. Hewants to you, know his names on the...

...record and he wants the best for thesong, though he had his suggestions, which I thought were not my ideas and what I wanted didnot make sense to him. So we all had ideas that we both didn't think we'rethe right thing for the record and it just came down to. It was just a bunchof hits and a song that I was so afraid that his idea would make my song sound.CHEESY WH in his head was not cheese. Balls at all, it was at whoole to me itwas cheesy and then my idea to him was cheesy nd to me it was cool. So how dowe man in the middle here we had this standoff where W we were like lookingat each other like and poor Johnni on guitar is sitting there like this wastracking guitar for a song and he's just waiting to be told what to doright and him, and I are just head budding yeah. What are we going to makehim play on the guitar? I have my idea. He's got his idea. We don't want to doeach other's idea, what we're going to do and we look at Johnni and he's like I'm just going to play whatever youguys tell me w. What do you gwant to play Johnny and he came out, which wasI I don't think it was in the documentary, but Johnny came ont andsays so. It came down to like David wanted to do. Hits in the choruswherethere's Odat Dat right. I didn't want the DT D hits in the chorusbecause I thought it sounded to country in my in my head or to like m praise,worship Christian band inaway. It was L, it was too national, maybe for me- and so you know we- we were kind ofbutting heads where he wanted to hit. I didn't want the hits. We looked atJohnny and he was a little bit. You know he felt the pressure and didn'tknow what to do and all he did was like what, if I did the hits but made himslides instead and it solved the problem yeah. All of a sudden. I waslike I'm good with that and he was like well he's Kinda like doing the rhythm Iwant I'm like and he's he's not putting in the space that I you know. I Dodn'twant Space Ind, the Song r Dot DT right in between right, so he put th. He gowow wow and it'sa e we're both sols both beingright. There rightnow willing to take the hits with the slides he's like I'mwilling to take the slide, because I got the hits and so and then we werehappy and it worked in the song. So it was interesting. Yeah at makes me thinkof Git of two ideas. Really Um is that one when you have like head budding happensall the time musically, because people do have different ideas, and I think,and everyone thinks they're right. Yes, and I think that's what I had to learn.Think that everyone's right, but whose record is it right? You know what Imean either. One of those ideas would have been a perfectly Um Adequa or perfectly like legitimateidea, but it's your record or who's in the lead. That's why? I think peopleunderestmate the importance of a producer. You got to have someonemaking decisions ecause at the end of the day. Neither one of those is rightor wrong. It's up to whatever you feel. You know you felt it was that way youfelhboth ar you know. INE IDEA is that you n, you could look up and find inany song. You know or numerous songs. You know what I mean, but at the end ofthe day, it's my record and- and this is the idea I'm trying to get out ofand th hen. I think that if people approach those moments more in thatsituation of like well, that's Nice, I'm not trying to say that you're! Youknow I'm not now not speaking to that particular momen in your Documentar,but, like I think, a lot of times. People turn this into like personal andlike people buttheads and think I'm right, you're wrong and but not reallywe're both right. But it's my record know I mean someone and I think that'shuman nature. Because look I mean just look. Ion't want to get too deep, butif you look at us as just humans, we're always needing, I feel like if everyone's equal there'schaos yeah there need a one person yeah. You know I mean okay in a family, theparent is the. This is what this is. What we're doing right, if it waseveryone together, I would be chaos. Look we. We have a presient, for youknow not to not to give the Guy Iny Credt or anything, but we have to havea president to make a decision for a country right. People go to church Godor Jesus. Is that or a pastor? Is that defining go to school? We got a teacherriters, always Rie. It has to be someone that makes the decisioneverywhere. You work at someone has to be a boss right right. You have a boss,you're the boss or you're, not the boss, right right, if you're in a section ofHa job who's the manager that ell that person the boss, you know so I feellike it's just human nature that we save someone, because if there's, ifwe're all like Y A, we all have our ideas, you knowand Soe Can Oll that butting ead Torty, but, like some people are againstauthority and it's like Na, you know...

...that we kinda do need it yeah. It's aninteresting thing. S Psychologically I and all that butting head's, probablyis a good thing, because you need all those ideas and stuff and you need towork it out, and you need to sort of check it against something else, butthe otherthing, which goes back to your earlier point, which I believe 'causeyou know I' e I've produced a bunch of records myself and as a producer, Ithink the best way and just in life like hire the right guys, let them dotheir job yeah. You know, of course, I pushed them like you were doing bu, butyou hired the guy that you know you're going to get what your Adti you hirethe wrong guy and you're trying to make hem do something else. It's again, it'sgoing to take you way more time and you're never really going to get whatyou want. You know so in that instance as well. You know Johnny G, phenomenal,Guitar Player Sore of Save the day because you hired the right guy infirst rights. You know and like it was an amazing little Momentii feel likeyou came out of this record a producer and, of course, the technology. It'sdifferent these days. You know it it is different, but it it doesn't have to be,and it's it's not always different. You know so David and I are still closefriends and it'. It's great because you know Davidknows so much more in the recording area than I do, and yet he was still because it was myproject. He was still Um, not humoring, my my ideas, but you know listening andrespecting me, and I think there was a respect for me that he would listen,and I learned a lot from David and I' ve. I've learned so much more than Iever did off doing this record yeah. However, David also said that helearned from me right, a guy that didn't know any of that stuff h wentwith my gut and because I know what I wanted yes and I do have R in thedocumentar too, that you came in with an idea and that's you know a lot oftimes. Well the fact that your musical makes it pri cool, I think as being abase player baseplayers. I feel listen, a lot NDand so do drummers. I think too, because I mean, while the whole the whole reasoning. You know where ina band is like we're, we're gluing the rhythm and th the harmony together. Sowhere the you know, I kin of explain this in my do in the documentary wis,you know you have two two sides of the Ro that need to be connected. The baselayer or the producer is the the center Rightoh you're. Putting it together isputting those two peaces together now you're complete and that's how wekindof think sometimes as base players because we're listening to the drums wehave to connect. We have to be rhythmic with the drums, but we have to be aswell Fittin with the harmony of the guitar players and keep time you knowand there's a lot going on. So there's a lot of there's a lot of listening.You Know Wen therwhen, when you're kind o guiding the drums a little whindepending who's playing drums, igtoers Tris, to try to seer the ship,but which is fine but you're. Trying to make everyone ha is.It is trying to make everyone happy or- and it's not, maybe not, making aveyonehappy, but making t the music makes sense yeah what I know the singersdoing this thing. You know and guitar players doing this thing: CBOS P, youknow the drumers in. How is this all going to make sense? And what am Igoing to play? So it does make sense. Yeah, you know t that's how I think Ithink you're right in the sense that the basepwlayer is the most. You got topay attention to at all really MMNO, but so we keep talking about thisdocumentary too, and it was directed and like filmed by Nidl Igel Dick. Howdid that happen? This dude, like yes, Ho many videos, so he's he's an amazingdo if, if you guys don't know who nitell Dick is please just even go to,I think it's Nizaldeck dtcom or just type an IDL Dick on Google and you're,going to see this huge list of things that this guy's done. He's a musicvideo director or he's a director of tons of films and everything, but he'sknown for being the music video...

...director- and I mean you can say thesenames, like he hes Britty spears guns and roses wee. Child O mine, welcome toe jungle, oasis wonderwall, Schar, nickelback, Elton John Ricki,Martin Tony Braxon, Ozzy Osbourne. It's IT'S INCREDIBLE! He's on staying PaulMcCartney. I mean ill and your documentary. How did thatI happen? It's crazy t's! So Coo it's CR, yeah inidyl is such a great he's. He's he'ssuch a good guy and a great friend and he's just real and for a guy to workwith so many artists, we're talking hundreds yeah yeah, I mean hundreds andhundreds N, a Andade video right like Bandad like from the eighties. Likeit's yeah, I mean th. You can just imagine all the names off of that yeahO eirectly, so he's a humble Englishman, H and whatgrate is okay, so I met him. You know, after he's done all this back a few years. Actually I actually, I think it was the same yearthat I joined Matte Party actually case. In the same year I joined matty party.I was asked to audition for a TV reality show about a rock and Rowband Itrying to make it in Hollywood. It's Goine itwas going to be aired on SpikTV fx, and it was about this band that is trying to make it is going through.All the hardships of Hollywood has to go I's. Basically, it was written outto be ban. That was nothing or a songwriter that wanted to put a bandtogether and then the spand forms, and then they make it and theire successfuland they're the next biggest rock dand okay. So that was the whole concept andeverything about it was awesome. So I go into audition, Annigel is behind thecamera and they wanted to film me and I had to you, know, play some songs andperform and all that stuff long story short after a bunch of auditions. I endup getting the GIG to be in this documentary nd. It was filmed m righton sunset at the grower, studios or Gower Studios Moa- and I remember likealways driving in to park to get to the set and Dexter is filming right next tous like right there, like dexter scenes or how you know it's Kindo cool, so I'mgoing in there and you know everyone kept t ni telling melike. Oh Nidl dicks, you know drecding do you know who he is I'm like? I don'tknow really. You know who he was so I looked him up like oh crowd, like this.Guy is a legend he's, a legend Es, I mean MTV wouldn't be rang, they are withoutham or sure, because more than half of the videos on MTV were directed by him.You know he's the guy. He was like behind the music video look and almostthe template of what people even did. You know he was the one that theycopied because he was like the the OJ pioneer of it all right. You know, andso I come in there and he was the whole time was like this pleasant experienceand it was so nice and and when you're part of a t V show a TV reality showall of u sudden you're thinking. What are they going to do to expose me andmake me look like a fool cause thati. What we see on TV, Ri Drama Right,someone falls, someon gets, Dr. you know in all this crazy stop and you'rethinking. Do I want to look like that on t v How's is going to come acrossand I was very comforting. Like Hey, I got your back. I want to make you lookcool Wyou know I m pretty much was like a fan of US individually because he weend up knowing each other, in that the filming of that I mean took over a yearof wearing a Laphelmi k going to different scenes here and there and himfilming and him directing and doing this and some surprises to and meetingsponsors and flying to New York and Eish. Just like all this crazy stuff.After all of that, the show didn't turn out. It didn't happen, it didn't Eir,it did EIR for like the first couple of episodes and then it got drop somesomething happened. It didn't work out. I end up leaving niti end up, leavingall that stuff right and I didn't really communicate with him,because he was still like at that time, a role o of director and we weren'tlike friend, friends. We ere just o. We worked together a lot. So when I hadthis idea of this kickstarter, I had an idea I'm like well. If I'm going to gobig, if I'm, if this is going to be my one shot right, the eminem one shot,you know Ri I'm doing this. Why don't I make it a documentary and film allthese guys getting 'cause? I wanted thirty five musicians. I wanteddifferent singers. I want different songriders. That's got to be filmed yesand thinking. Okay, who do I know, and...

I'm like I know t so and so in thisperson, theirselfs, okay and then it clicked us like what if I asked NishelEhe and's like he's, not gon T he's not going to say yes igtbut, you know what I'm not goin afraid to just ask. Whynot ask I had this phone number and I called him- It was like Nigel. I lefthim a message and I was thinking I'm going to give him the best salespitchhe's ever heard. You know of this amazing ideaan project ran so I di givehim this whole thing and he didn't even think about it. He was like, of course,I would do that and I'm like wow he's, like, of course that is so cool he'slike I'd love to be a part of it. He's, like you know, an getting to no Nigel,then I find out. He actually is a base player too. Yes, I now yeahand and he'she I mean long soy short. He wanted to bea baseplayer. He wanted to be in a touring band around the world being abase player. It just so happened that he ended up hitting it with this film director being a a director, andhe s got a success through that, but his heart is being a base. Riar 'cause,he was in a band called the stiff. I think yeah heart of a TV show yeah.They were like the backup band for for a TV show or whatever, and it was likea co contest show or something or a a band yeah something I was going tobring that up to is baseplayer you're, a baselayer hitting it off. That'spretty cool, and that was a big thing, was that he got this connection that hewas even though he's successful and he's older right. He was still kindofliving through me because he got to know me he liked my baseplaying. Hewant to see me succeed as so who has a baseball 'cause. He was a bass playerand I mean it was just that connection. Itwas like this base playr connection kind of a thing and shes just asweetheart, so he m he accepted like I'll. Do it? Yes, what do you need andhonest to God any date I'd give to him or any shoot he was like. I am therewhatever you need, that's cool and it was like wha like mind, blown thatsomeone that successful is not an asshole. I know La is, is a weird place'cause. Sometimes you would get a weird answer and then other times you know,you're surprised that people are human, but it's always great to hear, and Ithink it because you know not, everybody would have the balls to evenask him yeah. I know, but it's always worth it whetar. They Gon, maybe you're,going to get a weird answer and say no, but I don't know more often than not. Iwould say the moral. The moral of this whole kick starter and I'll tell you isdon't be afraid to ask, because I was not afraid to ask for money right. Iwas not too proud to ask for money right and I was not too afraid or tooproud to ask this legend director, because the worst thing you can getback is no. And yes, you can maybe get your feelings here a little bit, butthat's the worst thing that they can do is just say no and that's it I meanjust ask well and you never know what you're going to get back, and so a lotof people are afraid to ask. Oh Man, I am it's Arl want tit, bother this harsn.That's very true! You know yeah right yeah. No, that's a great! It's anabsolutely great lesson. Just ask I mean the power of asking in DanFranklin. Is this guitarist that did kick starters, he's done three or fourRightan oter tea guy, he was nothehe did and P. Thot was the big thing hetold me to watch this Ted talks, episode of Amy Palmer and the whole Tedtalk is about asking Oh interesting and sow indeban person. Yes, yes, I thinkI've seen that as well. Yeah, yes, and so she was able to be successful likevery successful, getting like millions of dollars for her stuff by the powerof asking right. You know, there's a chool. There are a lot of people outthere that I mean that want Ta help yeah, you know, and I guess it can come down to people's love. Languages too, like youe, are people that their love language is giving rights,and now you don't t ake advantage of those people, but but if you're, thatgood at receiving those people are tricky yeah right yeah, there are a lot of us out of work rightnow, waiting the ebective playing shows and touring, and I know I've had to dowhatever. I can do to take my mind off the situation from time to time and oneof the ways to pass the time is to catch up on some books. You've missed.But if you're like me- and you don't love to read, there's another way you can consumeaudible dotcom has thousands of titles to choose from including audio booksabout music production, songwriting, the music business, Musitheory,instructional, audiobooks and...

...biographies of your favorite musicalheroes. But besides audio books, you can also listen to podcasts, theatricalperformances, alist comedy and exclusive audiooriginals. You won'tfind anywhere else right now. You can get a free, thirty day trial. If youvisit, audible, trial, dotcom, slash, dive bar rock star, that's audibletrial,dotcom, slash, dive bar rock star, and you can catch up on your audioreading. I'd like to take a second to thank youfor listening to the dipar rocks our podcast as a new pod cast getting theword out as a vital part of what it takes to keep the show on the road or off the road has their current case.Maybe if you would like to support the bodgast all you got to do subscribewherever you listen, and if you have an extra minute or two nees leave a review,you can also share and follow the Potgast onyour social media APS. Okayenough begging, I hope you're having fun and once again thank you forlistening. Well, it's interesting 'cause. It'sfunny that we went this far too is like because this is such a a weirdemotional business like you're. It's not that much different from acting inthe same sense that you're kind of paid for your emotional contribution to theworld. That's what we're doing we're playing music, it's all about emotions!Yet when you get offstage it becomes this hard core ruthless. You knowbusiness a lot of the Times you know and managing that is, is stricky. When you stick business N itwith pleasure, I guess or emotions it just gets all messed up. Yeah. It'ssloppy, really fast, you're packaging, a happiness o yourpackaging, emotion and selling it yeah. You know it's yeah and we yeah andthat's selling it part. It's really tricky. It's truly tricky for a lot ofartists too, because like when you're starting to turn what youlove into a commodity, the way you think about everything has to change,and yet you can't lose that an initial emotional connection to it, but youKINDOF have to lose that initial commotion. You know that connection toit. It's you know it's a tricky. It's a trum of business, O art and commerce.You know it's there's a lot of airables and everything I mean someone way back, told me. They said:okay, you have a doctor who's put in hours. Let's say they put in twelveyears of schooling right now they get to a position where now they're adoctor. They get paid handsomely to be a doctor, they they're veryknowledgeable. They know about a lot of things and there's they continue tolearn as they go and they just makes them more valuable. It makes them kindo ladder up a little bit right, so you have those but also or a scientist or or R astronot rigt afa musician. Let's say well US take a serious musician right, they're,putting the same amount of hours they're putting in the ten thousandhours, then they Nadi to master something even more y a and then, whenthe you become professional, you're still learning and some of us do thisfor twenty thirty years. You know- and it's I mean to me- It's the same thing it's like,but it's so it we're looked at differently for sure, because Mayewe're not dressed the same or because you know lifestyle is a little bitdifferent yeah. It's really the same thing if you take a serious musician,yeah thisis the same for sure and but also like when you think about a doctoreven for me as a musician when especially right now we're in the midstof chaos and and crazy stuff, we we're noteven allowed to work right now. Really, you know it'd be illegal, to have aconcert you know, and what do I it makes me feel a little insignificant compared toa doctor right now, WHO's trying to save lives and, failing you know,arguebly at a pretty big rate in this country, like people are dying of covedon a mass scale. You know and there on the front lines and I'm whining,because I can't play my music. You know it. It gets in your head that way too.You know for me, anyways I mean you know, but it doesn't mean that Ihaven't spent thirty years, like you say like working on my craft andbecoming as best at I can, and it's not like. We don't provide a service forpeople an and a certain amount of joy which in these times they need as well.You know, but DPYOU, don't see a doctor. That's putthirty years in this profession, working for tips, igt for sure yeah s alittle bit different. I mean Um. You know that's interesting, because youalso did...

Postmartin jukepox yeah and they arekind of under fire right now. I don't know if I I don't know anything aboutit. No, I don't well Ey it kind of ties into black lags matter and and thertheire black cast members ha wrote an open letter about you know. Apparentlysomebody ha made them take their black live matter, pin off to do a show morethan one time I think there's a but the other complaint is just about howlittle he pays the people and he has a multimillion dollar situation going onat this point and you're getting paid a hundred dollars to do a video that he'sgoing to make millions off of that any company. I know it's unfair: Well, notany company Walmart right they're paying someone to do the cash register. Well, I guess. Okay, maybe that's alittle bit Maye! That's turn a I A he's o a Goln. You know, yeah you're,bringing school to people that are were very good, died, orno musicians, Y,exactly yeah and- and I think that's do you want me to say how much I got paidor no I it's up to you I mean and honestly I don't know him. I I'm onlyread the article and I don't I'm not even a super controversial dude, I'mnot trying to stir it up necessarily, but we've all as musicians been insituations where I'm making a hundred bucks for a hundred and fifty bucks,and I went to college- you know like M, I m I'm a highly skilled worker workingfor no money but as the devil's advocate you're the one that acceptedit for sure right for sure. But it's it's I mean it's ofI'm not defending the guy, because, yes, I got paid very little to do the video.I was in right, very L. Like P, you know not much ewas one song and it wasa record. It was three takes Um but Y. I guess the trade off is you're,getting paid less but you're getting the exposure that you would know get sorigt. I my videos have never hit a million views or a video I mean, Ithink, is now like four million views right, which one did you do so it'scalled poison with Shashana Bean, oh gosh, so we did the poison by Bev bbille Bvo, yeah, rightbythat,herees, poins yeah, and we det it more of a like a a fifty style to and Ho was very cool.It was very an concept. Ashe's amazing, Yeah Yeah. She was super cool and shewas like a good hang and yeah. We we did the stuff we did three takes and itwas, it was, was site rating. They put the chart, we're like okay let' gothrough it once and then. Okay cameras on record. We had three tanks done then,when we left another band came in and recorded, and I think he recorded threesongs that day. So that's what he does is he'll book a studio or he'll have aroom and he'll. Do multiple bands, multiple people and he'll, just bangout five songs, Fr ten release them separately. Cool, so was it ing yeah Iwas super. Fun was actually really really fun. A yeah it was Um, you yous s with great guys playing funmusic that Youd. Never you never really get to play and then I to be honest.When I came into it, I didn't even know what it was. Oh Wow, I got recommendedand I got called from Scott Bradly imself s like Hay man. I neede a base player. You know, wouldyou play stend up orles electric he's like okay, I coand use for electric onthis M. can you come tomorrow at this time? Great, so I show up a I'm waitingand the students was locked up 'cause. They were recording somebody else, andthen they opened the door. s like o Wenyou might come on in boom. Here'sthe chart we're think of this boom. So I did my little notations. You know:Okay, let's go through it. That sounds great. Can you put hips here great, butright in his there Om all right, guys, ready, let's record record, do thewhole thing jus stop and then you know like Shashan. How do you feel all e ThoOm and then they picked the best take and- and it's like? Okay, thank you.Next and the next person was Um Blake Lewis, American idol Soton. Hewas up next doing the next song and and then walked out A. I was asking Skaslike Scot. What is this? What is this for 'cause? I never heard of Marta Wow.I I it was just a session Ih yeah and he's like Oh yeah. I do videos and youknow we do kind of Thi, this fun old style and it's doing pretty good, andyou know it's been fun and e great, and that was it e w, like hures your check,Bom, I'm out, and then I find it later that it's this big thing and I had noidea it was this thing I'm like okay. I can't wait for my video to come out andcame out it ID great but Um. I think the issue was not just the recording,but I think it's the people in tour that are the ones that are probablyyeah. I know a few people that are on...

...the tour that wish they could get paid more, but I mean, but there was also aboutthe videos, especially when you're getting like. I think I looked up whene.He has eighty four million spins and I mean beyond that. It's like you've turned this into a multi milliondollar situation. According to the open letter. I don't know- and again I Idon't know I I just brought it up. I read the letter yesterday and I waslike I I don't I don't you know I don't know about it, but obviously we've allbeen in the situation. It's just it's sort of it's. I don't know it can getso deep about it. It's sort of sad that it's kind of the American way that aguy and you just said it like well, you took the Gig well yeah, well we're allstarving out here, and people want to get g. The thing is: Is that you'vemade all this money on the backs of of all these callenged people a you'R,just one dude, you couldn't do this by yourself and uh you'. You know a normalsession fee, for even that would be like if it was union. You would havemade five hundred bucks ferfor five hundred bucks, but Il bet you made oneone, fifty wow, so I don't know that's even below.Like fair market value. I mean that's right to me: that's just that's justbeing the inesent human being again, I'm out of it. I don't know, but we'veall been in thes situation to pull off. I guess to pull off something good. Youdo have to have a certain quality of musician you're, a highly skilled iceright. So so it's different than yes you're, a big company and you just findinterns and and minimum wage workers to help you wripe the business going. Youknow it's a little bit difer than that exposure is real. Ou Know bascal. I didn't get anything hots.What I'm aying like if you're, if you're so Shona Bean, then at'exposures great. It's amazing. He also got paid a lot more and that's theother part of the letter, like telead singers, have a different deal. Theyget some back end yeah, but anyways. It's! It's all tricky. I understand thesingers that people search up. So it's it's a tricky thing. Yeah I mean I'mnot saying they shouldn't get paid, that I'm saying that you should getpaid more, but that just goes back to the motown years and back to the youknow, a studio where these guys were making hit records yeah they weren'tmaking that much either they're on the radio for forty yearsfifty years and nobody knows who they are. Nobody elsenthey're, the ones thatthought F hepar. They shaped, you know they s. The sound of Pop Music Ay shapejus rings on Iswell. This has been awesome R, getting long on time, get UmWol. What at the Weing Fas? I know it does. Doesn't it right and we didn'teven get into the fact that you'R, my first Canadian on the show Ot Tru, I know which is awesome. I loveCanada, you, like L, a yeah, so I first loved Alle than hated it with a passion, WLL and am now comingto love it again, because I let go. I just let go and I think that's a hugething, because when you come when you, when you uproot yourself froma different city or from a DF different country, you put a lot of pressure onyourself oversure, because you you can you put yourself in this position? Andyou came all this way. You spent money, Youre Puttin yourself in a weird Po,like a really weird situation. You know starving because you're willing to takethe chance to somehow make it whatever that make it is or to prove to thepeople back at home that you are right, there's that otshore of the Baashelor,talented or whatever. That is right, or even that you can stay successful,'cause a lot of people when you leave you're, like oh he'll, be back in amonth, Hes TIL, ot in L, a or he'll never make it or, but that pressure to prove that is provingpeople wrong in a way oproving that you have a value ind, I think as humans. Weall try to prove something. I mean look atmedia these days, even like apps like insogram and Tik talk everyone's tryingto show a talent r if the town's not greateveryone's trying to be a star proven and there's millions of people so likehey, I have an identity. This is me,...

...you know I stick out. Everybody wantsto be somebody everywants to stick out Wen ride or you knaw, a podcast wet. You get the point n for me. I hadthat pressure yeah. I came from another country. I I first went to Nashville for threeyears and then I came here, but it was the whole point of like. I need toprove that I can make it Innashnalle. I need to prove to everyone that thiswasn't a mistake and when I go back, I'm not saying hey, I'm suffering in L,a I'm saying no, I'm doing great and I'm not lying right, SOTHERE's a lot.It's a ton of pressure on Youim when things aren't going your way and youkeep having doors shut or slammed on you, Theyn get very frustrated and youstart to think. Do I keep sticking it out or I'? Just go home and just suckit up know, but I hear you: What do you do? Yeah? You know yeah. I lived herein October of two thousand and that Christmas I went to Florida where mymom was living at the time and I just remember the sense of dread when thatweek of Florida and Christmas was over having to come back here and like am I ever going to make it and like is,I is, am I goin to be able to work and like just just and you're looking downthe barrel of January and it's like I'm not really established yet mymoney's running out and it's January, like nothing happens in January, likethe whole town shuts down right and uh, it's hard. You know it's, not it's atown, that'll chew you up and spit you out, and then nobody wants you to comehere and make it. You know in a weird way: ow N, U Town overall, everyone'sfriendly and Nice, not everyone, but there is there's a CCAMARADERIE amongstmusicians. You know we're all sort of in the trenches and and that's great,but at the same time, if you go home tomorrow, that's just going to oh goodamorgigs. For me, you know like yeah. There is a sort of like oh well, youcan make it there's a lot of people like that. No it's not that friendly ofa Y O! It's almost ye it's! It is a bit of a lottery ow long. How long are you going to playbecause you may hit and the grass can always be greener on the other side, soyou just Don Ehavy Kinda happy were with Yo. I mean I think, when you'reamongst other players, I mean it's great to know other people,so you know that you, you are in the same spot. And yes, maybe your buddygot this great tour and you're been here for ten years and still haven'tgotten anything. But then you hear that like okay yeah, he got the tour and ygot the name and that's great, but then he starts complaining like Ah, you knowlike the Gig is like kind of bullshit. You know and got sick with it, I'm notI'm not rinaming any names, but that it's Kindaf like in general, withthings how ow how it is or oh great, like I got this artists gage, but thengreat well, you're in town and you're get all this great work and, and youcan stay home, you don't have to travel and you don't have to worry about allthis and that and then I'm like, oh well, yeah, but it's Kinda likemullshit. You know like so like wh Y H for sure it's weird because, like it's a mind, it'that's whet I'm sayingyou have to get out of the grasses greener on the other side too, becauseyeah you're waiting for this kind, O like you, have to stick it out thatsomething could happen. ITOULD be awesome. But then, when you get it youknow it might not be perfect and you have to you know it becomes likereality: Hey got. I got the job, you know anybody job that I wanted and thenhe realized okay. Well, I'm I'm in the office building. I got the job now.What do I do? Yenow, I have all thi stress on me and stuff too, exactlyyeah, so it's it s. It can be anything like you know. No GIG is perfect, nogiga of, but that Cino peas. Another idea that I always have like peoplecome here with a mythology in their head of what La is and what it is to bea touring musician or when it is to be on a t, v show or whatit is, and thepeople that can shed that mythology and be here and realize what it is, are theones that are going to be successful. You know the ones that can realize fastthat none of these gigs are the thing. That's going to make you happy reallyit's the thing. That's going Wer laten to the exactly that's the other thing.Then you get that biggest GIG and it might be the biggest artist of the year,but she tours for a year and th. It doesn't go out for three years and whatare you going to do now, O he or she? You know, and none of these G. It'sit's it. Never that's the other thing. The people wee got to pay your des.They don't tell you that you never stop paying your dupes like there's, alwaysdus to pay you're going to be up and you're going to be great and you'regoing to be like. Oh I'm so glad I paid my des and then you're going to be downagain and you're, going to be playing weddings and you're. GOINGTO plea,piling backyuard parties and be like gotto pay, some more dues. You know, soyou can get to the next level and it's this kind, O ons, rollercoast, jazs andinteresting that you said that, because...

I remember talking to my fiance about paying mydues- and I remember I said the same thing- I'm like how much longer yea my paying my duesand I get. I do get a little frustrated when I a twenty something year old. TheSA I paid my dues and I got the GIG and I paid my dues. You know four or fiveyears of being in L A- and I just get so angry, because I'm like what about twenty years of paying yourdues yea, then what and what you got R member in those moments is that thatKid's going to pay his dues again, don't worry! This is not going to last.You know, or you know you gotta enjoy the ride, that's the bottom line. Ithink it's not about the DIS kiker that kigger. I got this and tha. I did it'sabout what we're looking back on now and talking about this awesome story ofyour life here in l, a right, that's what that's what you get to keep right,you know and that's what no one can take away from you. This is a Hartparticularly hard time. This is a weird time and it is a weird time. I'veprobably said this on too many of these podcasts, but it's a weird time tostart a pod cast like this, because there is no work and there's nothing todo and everyone's in in a weird situation. So, if you're trying to getinto the music business now who yeah- and you know what I appreciate thisproudcast, because if you were a musician you're listening to this, yourealize you're, no different, yeah we'real, that your struggles and thatyour the things I this is almost like a musician church where you' re, like I'mstruggeveryone's, struggling though it it is like I shuggle through Thi Ye,are t we're all everything. You know that your feeling,yeah all of us, have felt at one time or Exac, currently a feeling. You knowsome some of these careers of the guys that have been on here, like I look att and like you've, just on stopped had great gigs does. Does it feel like thatmost of the time? No, yes, I have, but at the end of that Gig I didn't knowwhat I was going to do and then something else came up. T's, no one'sever, not scared! All the time. You know what I mean no one's at right. Youknow. There's some people obviously like there are certain gigs that youcan get that that last forever and they're great and everyone's, but thoseare so rare, a lot of times you're going to get a great gig and then it'sgoing to be over and you're unemployed again we're constantly unemployed, youknow, is sort of the through line for every musician's. Lifewellthis has beencolman an amazing conversation D, Yes and you're, a fabulous baseplayeryou're, a great guy like there's, you know it's all everything is, you know, Gonta,be great fine, don't we all we're all in ittogether Ar yeah a we all have different stories. We just all hitsorry and we're back yes, xasorry man. I was Grea Man, O o that wasn'tThawas in a posit Fendh man, the power of asking. I I really love that lesson,because it's not something I'm good at at all. I think I just hate hearing no, butit's probably something worth getting over, because I do know that you canonly go so far on your own and all the most successful people have had a handup at some point. I have for sure, but Mike didn't just take people'smoney. He rewarded them heavily for it as well as put out a record. So it'ssomething that I'm going to ponder for quite a while, and I think hopefully Ican get over this fear of no thin now itwas, not unusual. I think a lot ofpeople have that. I also hate sounding so dark about l. A this. This uminterview got a little dark. I think the covid situation is is reallystarting to get to a lot of us for sure. I know that I've just felt a littledown lately, anyways, it's it's hard not to when you're. When we'rn. Youknow, we never thought it would go this far, and here we are still out of workand wondering what's Goingto happen. Next, it's getting to be a pretty scarytime for sure, but L A I shouldn't be so dark, it's been hard, but this townis literally given me everything you know, and I think the key is that yougot to love the game and you got Ta love the challenge. You know it's been.It's been hard at times, but it's exhilarating all of the time. You knowI love being where the action is an in a place where all things are possible. So I guess I'm a bit of a cynic, butI'm also an optimist and M. I love La so Nidel Dick was the base player forthe stiff allstars, which was the houseband for stiff records, and theyappeared on a lot of TV shows with several artists and bands. So I think Igot confused that he was a base player in a TV showband, but check him outanyway on Wikopedia, it's his list of...

...credits is unbelievable Um. We alsotalked about a couple of first names when you were talking about mad tea andthat was nick and Thats Nikshod and George Castels, and they were both mmad TA base players as well and they're. Both awesome, dudes and awesome playersso check them out and the Fox and hounds is in studiocity and when and if it opens back up. I highly recommend the hang there. It'san awesome bar I've spent so many hours there, and I really wish that. I couldgo, have a drink there right now. Well, I hope you enjoy the episode as much asI did. Wow you've made it to the end, I'mhoping it's because you completely enjoyed yourself and are now filledwith knowledge and inspiration to move forward with your dreams. If that isthe case, and you would like to STA nformed it new episodes of live eventsand General News, please go to dive bar rocks, str, dotcom and sign up with themillonist. If you have any questions, comments, corrections or complaintsabout anything you hear on the show, please email me at fan: Mail at Dibar,Rock Star DOTCOM and you may even end up on the show we at the Divar RockStar podcast with all of our hearts. Thank you for listening and remember.It's all about dreams.

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