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The Dive Bar Rock Star Podcast
The Dive Bar Rock Star Podcast

Episode 9 · 1 year ago

Michael Bluestein- Phantom Limbs (Foreigner, Enrique Iglesias)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Keyboardist, producer, singer/songwriter, Michael Bluestein, gets deep about the path of the artist and sideman. He tells the story of his audition for the legendary rock band, Foreigner and what it’s like playing with rock stars. He reminisces about his days at Berklee College of Music and how that helped him step up his playing. Michael announces the release of the new single with his duo, Tina Blue, which is a really cool cover of the Rolling Stones classic, “Paint It Black”. He also discusses some current ways to distribute your music.

Tina Blue- "Paint It Black" Video:

https://youtu.be/G_3lNGyPJ54

Tina Blue- “Paint It Black” Single:

https://open.spotify.com/album/3CYurq20faVkmtn3LxOeKw?si=MWSyI6jMRSmOBGp23FgZJw

Michael Bluestein Solo Artist:

https://open.spotify.com/artist/3lGrfajNh2erBB5l3G3fRJ?si=ZZ6VhUK6SkKWIT0BVXlUlw

Do you love audiobooks? You can get athree thirty day trial membership to AUDIBL DOTCOM by visiting audivil trial,dotcoms lash dive bar rocks star. They have thousands of audio boove titles aswell as podcast, guided wellness programs, theatrical performances,Aliss, comedy and exclusive audible originals. You won't find anywhere elseget your free trial membership at audible, trial, dotcom, Flash Dibar,Rockstar, welcome to the Diebar Rock Star podcast,the show exploring the lives of professional musicians of all typestouring, musicians, recording artists, songriders engineers, barbands weddingbands and anyone making their living in the music industry, whether you'vedreamed of being a professional. Oh, you already are one. This is the PODGASfor you on your host Eric Banes, and I hope that you not only find someentertainment here, but also some helpful tips, trade secrets and ideasthat will help you achieve your dreams. So it's cricket season here, in LosAngeles, apparently and one has gotten into my studio and Um- is driving me abit nuts but um. As you probably know, that's how buddyhauly and the crickets got their name was. There was a cricket in the wall ofthe recording studio that they were. They were recording at so Um. In keeping with rock and roll tradition.I'm not going to bother trying to eliminate, I could take a an hour andtry to locate it and catch a cricket which is not easy. If you've ever triedto catch a cricket, so Um please enjoy it. You know I I'm not going to chargeyou for it. It's it's a itsa little extra bonus for this episode. My guest today on the show, isa really cool guy, really great player. He's a multi instrumentalist producer,singer, songwriter he's currently the keyboard player for the band foreigner,but he's also tored with Enrik Glacius Shallby, Lin, boskags, Linda Perry,onestasia and dancing with the stars. Just the name of F. He cohost ofpodcast, slash utube, show with the Guitar Player from Foreigner, BruceWatson called very important beer and it's a total blast. They drink beer andthey talk to their musician friends and it's totally my kind of show. So Iwould highly recommend you'd check that out and the video for his late assingle with his band Teina blue debuts on utube today August eighteenth andit's a really cool cover of the rulling stones, classic painted black sochecked that out as well put links to all this stuff in the shownotes. Ishould know that this was recorded on the day that the audiosingle came out,so don't be confused by the conversation, and I would also like tomention that this episode features the classic sound of Internet noises thatwe've all grown accustomed to in these coved times. So I hope that doesn'tbother you too much, but please enjoy my conversation with Michael Bluestein. So it's a big day for you, a new single out, so tell me, tell meall about it. It says Tina blue on on ITSADSA, a persons. It's it's a ban,good question. We we anticipate confusion with that, a yeah. It's justone of those things yeah. It could easily be a person, write Tinaplu, butit's it's! It's an amalganation of our names, R, her names, Tinatary andpeople call me blue. My whole blue Stin, so teen o Blue Yeah me, but it's a band.It's a Dua with us and M. You know I pretty much produce everything and she sings. I sing some of the time andsometimes farm out some of the parts to other people, H, Bruce Watcson fromforeigner, Marila, playd, guitars and other he's been doing yeah. He actuallyD, some great stuff on this track. Yeah Yeah, you said you listen to it. That'sGrea, Oh yeah! It sounds amazing. I love the song anywayis classic. Youknow paintud black rolling, stone stones yeah. I just I kindobeen excited about thisreinvention of some of those classic tunes. Lately you know and it kind of fits her voice and anher vive and I've always loved that downtempo kind of like massive attack:Zero, seven Um Stereolab. You know you know, bandslike that. You know. Th W talking about Kinda Kindo got really big in thenineties, ragess and H. I I've always loved that five. You knowjust that kind of slow sexc. You know sultry kind of stuff, you know,but with a groove of beats, and you know just good soundscapes and good lowends and all that you know right yeah.

I also love. If you're Gonta do a cover do do toop, you know give me an opinionabout it. You know what I mean like take. Do a different nake on it. Don'tlike the covers, or you listen like- is that the original I'm not sure itdoesn't t's, it's so much like it, but this is a very it's a departure. Youknow totally I it's funny. I was just talking to a good friend about thatvery thing. It's like. Why Bother? I mean I guess the why I bother theanswer o. Why bother would be? Sometimes people will actually do that.Do the the sound alikes they call them, you knowsay, so a they can. You know, is obviously much moreexpensive to get the rolling stones master of whatever satisfaction or youw miss you or you know, rwhatever or ever brown, sugar or something h to toget. You know both publishing and you know, and the matster th, the writers,pthe publishing, T E renders the master recording fee SINC fee for that. Sopeople will do a sound alike and then they only have to pay you o. They don'thave to pay as much H, the film or the Shuwso, so th. I can see what people dothat, as like a business artists will do that cause. I have a businessdecision like whas trying to like make some money right exactly, but but I meaHar as and you'R you're, putting out a single and like so this as it's justit's awesome. I really enjoyed it and the guitars. Oh my gosh ths, it's justlike a moody, really cool stuff yeah. That's all Bruce Watson who I'm in Aba.You know who I'm in foreigner with and he did o kind of a big spee. Pickupthing. Kindo, like you know, T E B. We definitely and then Hewas aMougerfouger. This little filter filter device. You know which, which generatedthis kind of wacky sort of almost like not really like a theramnhats, sort of like a pitch modulating sound slowly. Syou know passes through the frequency rage. Youknow he did. He did some of that which was school, which I didn't even expect,but I knew he's he's such a tasteful guy s such a of it's gets such greattextures. It was like, let's just see what you would do like what or youheare. I love that when you just turn over d track to somebody- and you knowwhat do you hear on thiswl w just go to to Ta, you know Yeah Yeah, I' alw likehire the right guy letter exactly exactly so yeah, so it just justdropped today and of course, all the streaming platforms, the usual suspects,potify apple, music, didn't didn't, look like ie was on Pandoria, but anymost of them and yeah we're just trying to get the wordout, and we actal have another song that we've just Brubbd just putting thefinishing touches on, which is the monkey's dangering believer Ocaseou.Remember that one too yeah, I'm total reinvention of that to totally totallydifferent five Um, I probably it'll, probably soundarrogant, to say I think it's way better than the original, but I do. Ireally do feel that way. I mean it's thank God. They wrote the tune. I meanthey'r they're, the ones who came they're. The reason why I get to dothis because it's it's an amazing song I, but I'm really siced about ourversion of that andhathat'll most likely be the next thing that we dropto. Oh, that's awesome and you said: There's a video coming out, yeah so yepso for painta black there's a video coming out on August, eighteenth augs,eighteen, FOM PERFIAND! So is there going to be a whole record or you'rjust going to do this tune by ton o a good question? You know it's somethingthat, like I wrestle with and se and Iten, and I wrestle it like in this dayand age of Sike. Is that still I relevant thing? Well, I mean it'srelevant to me because you know for people that are old enough. That grewup with records, and this fold you know putting on an l, P or a tape or a CD, whateveryou're format, and this journey that you take the art of of a record and howit's paced, and you know the thought that goes into the ordering of it. Imean that whole thing is that's an amazing thing. It feels kind o like alost art yeah.

You know, I have mixed feelings alike.I do miss that and I I do love love that forma, but but also there'ssomething otliberating about just putting out singles and yea, just likejust put out a song, and you put your energy into that, and you puteverything into that and you put it out in the world and it's kind of like Idon K, 's sort of it's like a little less overwhelming than doing an album.You know, and you can kind of take your time withstuff I mean. Hopefully it doesn't slow you down, Tha, that new paradimeof of doing singles Rih, but but the ASER o question we haven't totally. We haven't totally decided, I mean,might B A dpnd we're, certainly getting enough material to at least do a EP Um. A full ing thing would be cool. Youknow well see right now, it's just in the single realm yeah. It gives me hopethat people are are indivinal. It means people are actually listeningto records ECAUSE, there's no other way to do it. If you've got a record, youknow what I mean you EC Kindof, listen to a whole side. You know before Yo'sRit Arnes yeah I mean you could e. You could goover there like pick up the needle very carefully, go to track three or creckfor but yeah ANC. It encourages that kind of listening. You know Um yeahpeople like whenever talk about side, bon event be Roan by the beetles esideEahi was just like identifying it as a side is, is prettycool inway total ain albums? I don't know what do you think y? U Like do youwant to? Are you still with your creative pursuit, so mean? Is it kindof like you still hold strong with album likeyou're into that? I reallywant to. I mean I don't think in terms of of singles. You know what I'm saylike know. I have t put out of regord in a while, but when I think about nowthat I have the time off, I'm thinking a lot about it and it's like my brainjust goes to record. You know I I kindo like to come up with the concept andthen you know you want to spend forty five minutes in it, but it's hard forme to think in terms of singles just because for one it's like just to putit out. Thereis, like ten bucks versus you, know, thirty bucks to put out awhole record, or you know, as far as DIS Actuallyso, you know what actuallythat's not that has changed. Believe me. I've learned a lot about that recentlywith with doing this yeah so through UNI distro kid is oneof th. There's all these dist digital distributors. Now Daerkid Tunekor, C D,P C D, baby talk about an older name, that's been rounter a while they J. Ithink I think their main thing is digital distribution. These days, Ithink that that's kind of you know with t a death of actual CDs A do a lot butjist you kid. You can actually for twenty dollars per year. You canput out unlimited material. Oh Wow, well ha everything then yeah as many.So that's kind, O encourtriging n in that sense- and you know sor so we'regoing to as they said, we have another one,that's going to drop before long Ehave, a couple of other ones that are sortof,read, ready to go and h they hand all the roll out to all all th estreamservices, what a they call DSP digital streamingplatforms. We know DSB digital signal, processingant DSP, another one. Anothercurrent one in that world is a digital streaming platform, so they handle theroll outs, O Potifi to apple music. Too. There's this thing called deezer. Idon't know much about it. Our Song is on tease- or I don't know I haven'ttalked to anybody. H knows anything about Tezer, but apparently that's thanew one too cabster Napsters, I guess still really big Hayea as a streamingplatform. Of course, Pandora ridle PL Google play there's: U Tube MusicRighyo right so anyway, throu a lot of 'em, but you say you Don Amis, like the Bsides, I think when you're puttingout a single for me, it's like the pressure to make everyone hit song or,like you know what I mean like when you're doing a record you're like well.This song is just for this Vibe, you know, and it's not necessarilysomething you would listen to on its own, but in the in the context of therecord, it's an amazing song. I I totally agree with that. I thinkthat that's maybe thee. There is a pressure with that Um trying to remove myself. With that Imean in the version that we've done a pain of black. Is it's not like a bigBanger of you know it's a more moody kind of thing, so they're not going tobe a traditional big single song, like whatever California, girls, Katepparry,or something like that, something like a as not a banger. By any stretch youknow, but H. I hear what you're saying, and Ithink it's probably if you're going to do thi single thing, it's important notto expect to put that kind of pressure on yourself like okay. This is going tobe this smash or something you know right, tnot being set. I think the nextone theywere putting op the monkey's one I think is- is pretty, but it waspretty bag and pretty high energy, so yeah that'd be fun. Absolutely. I can'tweigh that's GON TO BE AWESOME, UH!...

Well speaking of records, you have yourown Sola records. Tai. Do you have three on spottafi right?That's right! It was interesting. Listening to it all, becausereflections is your first one right e, an and vocal record very cool, veryBruce Hornsby, very, like your boyse Kindo has eldis Costello kind of I toit an Leiternail it you'r nailing it all tell em ay like ohahoh. That'sflattering! I love him an he's Kled, especially when you you know you gofrom this kind of pop song into a jazz, Piano Solo. It's so Ja, you noe,terchool Um, and then you get to a wild world and obvious soul, instrumentalrecords a little bit of smooths Jaz, maybe butdefinitely contemporary jazz, Um kind of a different thing, all great. By theway, Great Melt. It's great covers that you picked obviously a steely Dan fanhuge, but so what made you sort of make thatchange? And I don't know kind o give up on the vocals. I wouldn't say I really ever gave up onhim, but I, but I did take a sort of break fromthat D and I guess there's always been theseparallel pursuits of songwriting and instrumental and jazz piano. I mean Ifell in love with jazz and High School in Um College and really went down atpath pretty hard core D, so um, but they always kind of existed. It's justsort of like you know. You only have so much energy and attention. So when Iwas in a mode of really working on my jazz, I would just Beral superfocusedfon the practicing and the transcrabbing ofsolosand and all thatstuff um and then you know, switch gears and kind of like get backto the writing of songs, a kind of maybe amore simpler Y harmonically, simpler approach, which wha will happen with mysongs. I don't write, you know Super Super Hermonically, complex pop songs.Really you know I mean I wouldn't even see I don't use as many cords assteelyd andoes yeah weall. We all would love to knowhow they've done that in such a way that was, you know, became sosuccessful in a popaiy that they're pretty much outliers an theth. That'strue, I think so. But to answer the question you know I my initial love ofmusic. You know I didn't when I was a kid. It was always st like seventies,tolight rock and you know Um. Whatever Y grew up, l listening to Cat Stevensand Paul Simon and the BGS, I you know, came to steely dawn a little later. Youknow all that kind of classic stuff. Um Johnny, Mitchell and yeah, so I mean Inever. I never have lost my love for that stuff and and when I take a break,an F when I took taking a break and really working on my instrumentalplaying or my jazzplane, it always creeps back up on me and reclaims me towrite songs and get back and to sing again. I can't Y W at mean it's. I Ijust if m I read this book about Creativey once it it's called steel like an artist I'forgetting the author's name, and he just said, like he's like o basicallysays, don't be afraid to pursue your difference interests within you, Knowithin your art, even if they seem like totally different. Like your questionlike wo, Thats R, like you do this Jazz Tup, but then you do these songs kindof in a different place, but you just said you know the thing that unifiesthem the thing that puts them alltogether as the fact that you didthem whether or not they're really different and Fran talks about for himwhen he would give up doing one of them. Like you know, he was just doing music,but he wasn't writing short stories, anymore, poetry orwhenever he would get what he would call Phantom Whim Syndrome. So wheneverhe had stopped doing it was kind of like o wanted to go. Get it wanted to toexpress us on that, guy that that nails it for me, it's like, if I don't Ifi, don't write songs after a while.Just someone will creep up on me and and just demand to be written andlikesall suddenly be in the middle of writing. Escepen Yo o just it justKindo, happens a and similarly with the jazz thing, it's become a big part ofme, an instrumental music. If I don't play T, I really start missing it andI'll get back on a KA, and it's like Gohan Goad, I'm playing this again. Iwas supposed to be doing this. You know so so that just feel like they're. Bothyou know equally valid, and you know they just feel like me, and I justwantto want to do them. Do them both. You know yeah, I'm a little in the SAand I actually I put out a record years ago that was both like little bitinstrumental and a little bit of you know vocal stuff, but but then I wentsort of heavy into the s jazz and Jazz Contemporary Jazz for like sixteen years of my career and...

...woke up one day, and I'm like rememberwhen I used to sing like why am I not Singigar you know? Well, I mean I think, it's it's easy tohappen. Man, it's like you know, part of it could just be. You know, survivaland economic to any. Very long when I started reconnecting to my jazz, piano,playing and instrumental stuff and like group O music and Jam Andstuff, I wasin San Francisco and there was a lot of work for good keyboard players. Youknow it was like it was sort of like. Oh, you can do that. Well, we want tohire you and like we need, I, you know jazz singers, that needed accompanists.You know amband. You know that needed keyboard players. You know wheneverroadsbe three funky H keys. U Know that kind of stuff, I, whatever it was sortof like O, okay. Well, I'm working you know and then and then, when you'reworking and you're getting hire fore o you want to be as good as you can beJoiann. So from me I would say well that made me want to practice moreagain, so it's sort of like it was this cyclical thing of like okay. Now I'mdeep in that, and I'm just going to really concentrate on that for a while,you know and because I'm getting hired to do it, and I want to do a great job,you kno that kind of thing yeah yeah. I think I have similar sort ofexperience. We all sort of start out, I'm going to be I'm Goin to be elt Johnor I woald to be y Joten like, but I want to work, and I don't Wantto havesomthing else. So as soon as like making a livingstarts to guide, then you end up in some crazy places that you neverthought that she'd be that's so true man. I mean I can't tellyou how many stories t at you know. Well, why did you get into th thatstuff, music kind of thing you know kind of music? Well, Sora, often likethe answer you want to hear is like well. You know that was. That was thepassion that was driving me. I ways amuse. I had no choice friend allthat's what I had to do, but sometimes it's just like ban your rent. You knowo you know, so you know, after all, it's what we dofor a living. So we KINDOF have to. We have to be employable and beingversatile, helps a lot yo w yeah for sure and I've been Prett pretty youknow lucky, but at the same time there's been moments when I'm like.Well, I don't really have the luxury of deciding what music I play every nightI mean 'cause, it's it's my living, so ye yo go. Do this Gig, I'm not going tolove it, but you know at least I'm not flipping Burgers, which is Kindof Mut,the other skill, more skills than me. For me, it's justmusic. I can't even do the Burger flipping thing. Well, I work toWhenhe's in high school. That's US much o apprentice of Wendy's yeah, exactly AIS, Rabik, a Maossogoho Gand, now you're playing with the worldfamous band foreigner and UH. So that's quite a quite a leap from jazz to oneof the biggest rock bands rny. How d? How did that all happen? Did youhave to Audiso for that GIG R? I did yet in two thousand and eight I ran intoPalmwork of IIT name and Peopleoppomvitch Grate Keyboard Player,pusical director Guy's, been the musical director on t e voice, can't even remember how many years weten ten years. Maybe, however long the voice has been happening anyway, he had come on as Intera member offoreigner around that INT DA to seven and into early two thousand and eight,and when he came on he said you know I'll Hel. You guys play some keys withyou, but for you, but I can't you know. I have other commitments. I can't makethis a permanent thing, but I'll help you find someone when I have to leave.So it was just just you know: Goodtiming ran into him at Nan in twothousand and eight and we hadn't seen each other. We had worked together withanother artist, Anastasia back in two thousand and four and two thousand andfive. He a he had been a Musal director for Anastasia. I had audition andgotten a cake on that and toured with her for a couple of years. Ocan, and soyou know newpaul and he knew kind. You...

...know what I could do and KINDOF keepwher Tlaer. I was and everything and H. Yes, I ran into him and he said, golet's bring you in for an addition, because I can't do this kate for thatmuch longer and that's how it worked out. You know, Oh that's great, and you know Speain wit, the foreignerthing again. You know it's like. I grew up in H. I was a kid in theseventies, so you know foreigner in the late seventies yeah.You know the word ubiquitous comes to Miomin, I mean just constant and I lovethose duns again I loved seventies, rock and Seventyes Bob, and I was likeYeahi. So for me to you know it never these different things. They don't feellike a stretch, because I I love them all. You know yeah yeah and it seemslike you get to kind of play on that GAE. I was watching there's a Ugi clipof you doin the intro to Jubox hero, Oh yeah, at least y. You kinda get a moment toto do some stuff. It was Kindo cool yeah. I do like subsent stuff n. Then SYo, there's some loops go down and it becomes a kind of keyboard and drumsolo joithing. We collaboration kind of thing like a keyboard feature for awhile. Then it worss into the drum feature and that we start the Tu andstart that that you know signature classic Antro a box Ero than everyoneknows, Yoll put that up in post right. I've been doing that, but honestly th,the sound, was so bad toknow 'cause. I honestly thought about that. An I'mlike! Oh, this sound is really bad and I don't know if you're listening onheadphones. If it would come across that good but Ayso Wen. So then you gotthe GIG and did you have a lot of time to prepare or were you just kind ofthrust out there? Did you get Tho Rehearse, so there were three songsm that they wanted me to prepare. I waswaiting for a girl like C jukbox hero, and it feels like the first time, GodYa. So I didn't the thing is it's such a saygiging there ware so many soundsto cover alwas, very prepared and very meticulous and gave me all the thasheet music, actually that he had. He had played it into tilogic and justprint it up printed out the parts Um. So I was going along with that andgoing along with live recording. So I I knew all the parts when I came in youknow and was very familiar with what I was playing, but the big thing that was was the kind ofa curveball which I knew was going to. He occurred ball going ind was like youknow. There are four keyboards on the rig at the time were all these soundslaid out rang for people that are listening in that maybe art keyboard players arm islike, say you map out sections of the keyboard, so maybe there's some stringsind the lower two octaves of the kber go to the middle. Maybe there's a pianothere. Maybe there's horns, maybe there's samples. You know you have toknow where everything's and youll lay ot Wen program. You lay all thesedifferent sounds out in different zones of the keyboard so that you can at theright time you coan junk at the horse. Okay, there's the chorus figure. It'sup on this top keyboard way up in the Tok top octative andyou played up there.So hat was a thing of like I just didn't know where an if he tells youwhere it is in that second, okay, you're going to play and Thoy're goingto jump here. Obviously you need a little time to for the cour it's it'ssort of like T. it's like the coreography that keyboar brasthat wekeyboard players have to do. We have to jump around and be INFN. You know it'slike okay. Now this is the B section I jump up here and I do that so, and ittakes a little while to become comfortable with that. If, if you'redoing a lot of it, you know so so, Oh yeah, so there were things. I wasmissing like crazy on the addition, because I s like where did he say thatpart was there's por key? I can't remember Ju. He just told me, you knows and then also they threw some vocals some background vocols up, because Ising on the gate too, and they threw back Grovsat me like right, then so Kay.So so we get the course. This is your note, and so it was like. Okay,remembering this is what th the new note is and then remembering where tojump too. So so I I wouldn't say that I nailed all that at all because it just it didn't. I couldn't processall that new information that quickly you know ray up, but I I guess I nailedit enough so thatis all you got to do once you got the Gig, then was it like.Did they rehearse a lot or 'cause t seems like they work a lot. Foreigner does work a lot Um under normal circumstances like raneasily hundred plushos a year, unded hundred five o a hundred and ten. Youknow easily so so yeah there wasn't it's not a big band, that's big! Onrehearsing, a ton you know to you know I I basically came out when I was going to start in March oftwo thousand and eight I came out to just sort of be there play with themduring soundchecks Paul was still...

...playing keys with a band. He was stillon the GIG, but I kind of came into kind of you know to ease my way in fora couple of days as I would. I would practice with themon soundcheck for a few tunes, then I' go out and hang out and watch him dothe Gig you know, and then we did that for a couple of nights and then I thickon the third night. Maybe it was two or three shows that I got I saw him do andthen he took off and I was on the Gagan, winaways, tink or swim. You know, yeah,the training wheels are off exactly that's pretty cool and w. So you wereobviously a fan when you were a kid too, so that so it was probably pretty coolto just be now, I'm playing with these dids first and I don't box ero was definite.I was fan boing hard up there. You know I was J, the lights go down and theincho starts, and I'm hitting that boobook. You know eamis oby, Thomas D, Toby didall the keys a lot of people. Don't know that Oh wow, that was beforeThomas Dolby was you know she blinded me with science and had his own career.He was a keyboard session with guy. You know great programmer and greatkeyboard, sound guy, manipulator and programmer, and he was brought in onfour and four to program and play placints and so a lot of what I'mplaying on those classic four in or four somngs like urgentJubox, her waiting for a girl like you, almost all of that is Thomas Doby's,stuff wow and it's you know it's it's pretty coolto have a GIG. That's works that much too 'cause. It just seems, like youknow, there's so many gigs that are just a summer tour or a pop tour.That's out for a year and then it the dartust goes away ou to have cause. Iwork with wit, Yocumb now and it's kind of the same type of Gig, where he justworks like crazy and it's kind of a lucky thing to have at this. I think we're similar in the sense too.So you have your records out and then you've got your Gig and it's like thejuggling side, man versus artist. Would you ever? Did you ever invision? Beingthe artist Oh absolutely wore making these iers and stuff? I mean you saidit. You know I mean, I think it's a pretty common thing. You know, I mean Y,I mean isn, you said Billy Jol John, I mean as a piano player's a geiboardplayer. Those guys were kind of the benchmark of you know amazing,songwriters and great players and just reach the pinnacle of success. You knowthe brilliant guys and they kind of yeah. Do you mention Bruce Hornsbeearlier. Obviously, hes had a great great career and yeah I mean for awhile. When I was in San Francisco in the nineties. I thought that's what it was going to be,or I was going to. I was going to do that. You know that Iwas going to pursue that and you know I was writing a lot and I had bands andyeah. I I think that you know the reality of that overtime. Will you the reality of that choice and thework involve in the commitment of that choice? It will weed out people and Adefny. We it weeded me out.As far as was I ready to put absolutely everything into thatand turn down other things and do the starving artist thing for a while, andyou know, as we know you get in a van and you natore endlessly, and you knowthey're very, there are very few overnight success stories. As we allknow, it's usually pound in the pavement you know andhitting it for years, for hopefully you get some sort of break or in those daysmaybe get a record deal. You know Um, you know whatever that that of oKow that golds the poto gold at the end of the rainbow. You know, which I thinkmost people would agree these days in that world is probably harder than everbecause because of streaming and because of the low royalty rates andbecause you know the lack of actual physical CD, sals C D sales andall that every so so so you if it was hard, then it's even harder now I thinkbut um you know but but I also you knowbecause of the stuff we said before, being employable as a keyboard playerand getting other work and sort of like okay. Well, I can make a living heredoing this other stuff, which I like doing too. Yes, so I didn't have thatall or nothing kind of drive to be a sola artist. The Way I think you reallyou need to have, if you don't have that you're pretty much done, I think'cause it's going to be so hard, even if you do have it, you have so muchworkcut of for you Soi. If you don't have that that insatiable hunger. To dothat, I don't that's Kindof the writing on the wall. You Know Yeah Yeah Yeah. II totally agree, I think, I'm I'm much the same boat and now it's like now,when you put out AF record it's more about expressing yourself and and andnot so much pressure and like this is...

...going to be my living or this is gon tothis is going to be the record that breaks me. You know now. It's like. Ijust need to make a record and- and I know, and it's a Oll Y W, it'sexpression yeah and I love Song Riding and I love producing Aloppi N. I couldspend all my time here. You know I love the toys and crafting a song and theSonics of it mixing and all that it's like it's it's I I it's probably in music, nothing! I lovemore than that journey. You know, Weme, you know S, I love being on stage anperforming, and you know I'm a performer two and but there's justsomething so special and unique about being able to craft something and findyour vision in the studio. You know yeah come up with that perfect keyboardpart or that perfect guitar part that you know that perfect, you knowfinding, the perfect curt, likeyou said, hire the right person get the PR person that you know it was going toget the vibe of the song and bring them into the studior these days. Send themthe track and have them put put it down e and Theyre on studio yeah. I mean youknow all those things we said about the BA. I mean I still am superpassionateabout that, and you know that's what's been it. This overlining about thiswhole covet thing is that you know sure Yo know our work has dried up touring.But it's given me this icredible gift of all this time to pursue that stuffand come up with these, and that's why you know droppin singles now andrecording and writing 'cause. It's like I've just got all this extra time andyeah O it gives you that space to kind of to explore yeah wh t what yourvision is, you know and to just get lost in a song and like a loose trackof time like when you were a kid and didn't have anything to do and you justgot lost in it. You know that's what I've been noticing too it's just like.Oh a long time since I've been able to just like well, I don't have anythingto do til like January so m. I could really put all my energy into this onesong. You know forme. I need that kind of ettention. Ithink most people would say that it's like for me. If there's a song and aworking on or mix them trying to get right or production, I'm trying to getright, it's Ta Psykh. It takes all my energy for days. You know, has toreally you know a three minute songit's like we know what that's! If, if you're paying attention to everydetail and every note that everything is playing, you know it's like there's a lot that goes into that yeahfor sure and nothing we have n common is we both went to Berkley College andMusic? Oh yes! In fact, I was looking at your datesand I think we were there together for, like the last semester were, did youyou graduated in ninety one yeah, I think of ifficially? I got there.Eighty seven and I don't think I officially graduated 'till ninety twobut yeah. I was O seven. Eighty seven ond ninety one was were basically ththe year, as my first Mester was the winter of ninety one. So we were theretogether. We cried well tat. You go for the whole time or no, I N. actually itall ended up being three semesters over about two and a half years I went andthen I took a year H. I couldn't afford to go back. Basically so I went homeand worked there for a year came back for a year, so it was kind of on andoff for me, but it started in ninety one though that's well three semesters.There is a lot. You get a lot of information, a lot of any theory thatyou want to get into you know. Were you doing like more base performance orwell? I I tested in pretty high too, so I was able to get through all Iattestidto like harmony too and ear training, three, which s cool, but I'dnever done soltedge before so getting into ear training, three with neverhaving really experience. That was little tricky, but so I got a lotcrammed in there, but I was a songwriting major. I was in a rangingman: Ok, songwriding, Major, so Y K, three semesters and two two majors, soI don't know I was just there to get whatever I could get. You know, Tu Soak it up as much information as Ipossibly could yeah it's pretty intense. I mean I was staying there four years, lookingback wow, but you know, but I was at that point pretty far down the jazzrabbit whole for at least the first two t three years: Bejazzer O rocker way more of a Jazzerwaymor e Os, I for sure, but but it's it's ironic, that you end upin foreigner yeah just again m. It brings us back to the original thingsort O it. Never. You know Um, I never blost sight of the roots. Iguess now were you a performance, major yeah. I start as a performance majorand then I switched what the yeah they call Rprofessional. Music yeahwhichwould basically allow you to kind of mix and match your courses a little bit.So I think I drn a little bit of songwriting and lyric writing coursesin there too UM...

...lisynthesis. You know, I don't think it did any realthilm scoring classes, but um a little bit of arranging and yeah, so it it was basically allongodto do a kind of wider spectrum of stuff, yea cool and you're originally fromBrookline Thebrooklyn Mass Yeah. So was it too far? You OGO Bway, no. I went toHigh School of Brooklyn Yeah. I actually originally from HayfromMassachusetts, whit about thirty miles north of there, but but yea I yeah. My mom was still there in BrokLin when I was going to school, but I just wanted to be more on campus andmorearound stuff, twenty four seven, so I ended up getting an apartment really close by yeah. That's the greatpart about Berkeley too. You can it's just twenty four o seven music. If youwant to know that was my favorite part about it was just being around withgreat musicians. I mean at that age. They were the greatest musicians. Inever heard, and Oh my God, I een able to play all the time just play playplay. It was just the best. You know it was humb. It was humbling too. You knowlooking back mean it's just 'cause y you've got guys that are the best fromall their different cities and towns and Waever America, wherever Americaand all over the world nut ast. America were Japanese and German and Austrianand Italian and Spanish eastern Europeans. You know it was a realmelting pot Anbo. You know I mean I just remember getting in classes withguys. You know that could just hear so advanced, Buk Yo know I did this yeah.I won't keep out too hard ut. So in this atoal solfetish stuff, whereyou're singing you're singing intervals, that are youbasically get out of a cential out of out of a key center and you have to beable to sing the craziest interbals. You know- and I hear them- and I justremember getting in that class and there were people that could already doit and you know pretty well, and it was just it was. It was Somblin, it wasgreat 'cause it Wa, it was, it was an asekacker and it really makes you stepup your game game and find out where your weaknesses are and address themyeah. Big Time I also was like from a small town, and I was kind of the bigfish don't get there, and so I didn't really practice. I was just always busyplaying so when I got there and I m meet people that were like well, I'vedone six hours of practicing and I still got another three hours on my eartraining and four hours on my lesson and I' W S. just like wow, I've got aI've got to step it up at so many levels and then you also have likeablaborial junior. was there Mac garrison like ushewas swhos parents?You know they grew up here in this great jazz stuff, and you know I had mydad was into the beeatles and stuff, but from the jazz thing it was all youknow. I I just felt so like wow. If, if I had from birth, been hearing thismusic, you know they have such an advancble Emyoman, the musical familything I'm very similar to you, like. I can told you what my parents were. Whatyou know Stevie wonder my mom supposed me to los F T O wonder that was cool,but neither neither a e. my parents were musicians, and you know I I started piano when I was nine, whichwas you know, sort of- not I wouldn't say old, but but not superyoung either. But you know young enough, I guess but yea what you said exactlythat was humbling and that was really um a reality check when you get you getwith these guys that have been it's like breathing for them. They've grownup in these families ND and are already so ahead of the game. So, as we know,it's a tough business man and Gott have your stuff together and you get Beter,you know it just. It was a real wake up call of like wow. I got so much tolearn and I have some cetching up to do and you know a lot of practicin to do,and I'm glad I did you know, but I had that experience well, it turned outgreat. I mean I M nl. I've only technically played, I think one GIGwith you. We we did some weird like steakhouse. I totally remember that inHollywood I totally reembr yeah. We were upstairs in this like Weird LoftSpace Da. We were playing jazz and it was just such a strange were thr. I think there was someseeding up there yeah, I think. Well, there was sther one of us, but then Idon't remember, I actually ended up in that same place at turned into anightclub. I amp going to a party there few years ago, but UH. I don't know itwas, but I I also re, I don't even remember the Sax Guy's name, and Idon't I don't think I'd say Ananther, but but it was like weird because Iremember one time we're playing this tune and it just sounds awful, but youknow we're kindof killing it the rhythm sixes doit and he turned around the endand he goes well. That was something and I looked at his chart and I waslike what was rignt. I looked at his chart and his chart wasn't transposedso he was like we were all playing in the same key but he's playing a Saxopho.You know what I mean so he's just not playing the right melody o the entiretime and you was plaged. Oh Ai, like I...

...remember, there was some shall I say,'cause we were just sit reading all this. This stuff, you know which iskind of fun, but we're baby playing some Standar. I think some yeahandersand stuff yeah yeah yeah. I don't remember it being the most musicallysatisfying CIG. I never ha but um th. I remember webonded on that and weKinda had fun and had some laughs and there was a drubber on that gate too.Right I was trying to remember today who it might have been Chad right'cause. I know I I thought I got the GIG, I don't I don't remember. I O Lli, don't even know it or how the GIGcame up. That would have been like two thousand and three or four probably'cause. I moved to L A in two thousand and three and it was pretty shortlyafter I moved to La Abria yeah, probably two thousand and four. Iremember you saying that Youhad just moved to town, OK, aor, MK Awel. Ithought I thought I I remembered that we did one gate together, sobut. Ialways remembered you because just a great awesome player, it was veryiexmathere- are a lot of us out of work right now awaiting the ebective playingshows and touring, and I know I've had to do whatever. I can do to take mymind off the situation from time to time and one of the ways to pass thetime is to catch up on some books. You've missed. But if you're like me-and you don't love to read, there's another way you can consume.AUDIBLL DOTCOM has thousands of titles to choose from including audio booksabout music production, songwriting, the music business, music theory,instructional, audiobooks and biographies of your favorite musicalheroes. But besides audio books, you can also listen to podcasts, theatricalperformances, alist comedy and exclusive audiooriginals. You won'tfind anywhere else right now. You can get a free, thirty day trial if youvisit, audible, trial, dotcom, slash, dive bar rock star, that's audible,trial, dotcom, slash, dive bar rock star, and you can catch up on youraudioreading. I'd like to take a second to thank youfor listening to the dipar rocks our brodcast as a newpodcast. Getting theword out is a vital part of what it takes to keep the show on the road or off the road as their current case.Maybe if you would like to support the broadgast all you got to do subscribewherever you listen, and if you have an extra minute or two neese leave areview, you can also share and follow the potgast on your social media APS. Okay enough begging, I hope you'rehaving fun and once again thank you for listening and so has Berkeley like that.Experience has that it's how's that affected your career.Are you glad that you went to college? Do you bring that to the job every day,or is that I really am glad like I'm? You know, I. I think that you know people talk about sort of there's a there's, this kind of outlier extreme thing of these people that never you know quoteNquote, never learned a note of theory or never learned a bit of theory orNever Learne. How to read anything. You know like Bolike the Beatles you knowPaul McCartney and Fri Jolando, those guys didn't, read music and look whatthey came up with okay yea. That may be true, but you knowwe're not all palm cardiand Gelmenon, you know Um, I know certainly not andYo know. I think that if you have a feel for music- and you have some soulin you- that you, when you learn this otherstuff from in my experience for me- It only helped. You know I feel like I had.I had a feel and I had musicality, but it needed some attention and it needed.I needed more knowledge, especially as a piano player. I mean you know,there's there's so much. You know you got the ad a KS in harmony. A just. NowI feel, like knowledge is power as as a keyboard player, you know, or anymusician really and I've. I've never felt really that thato the knowledge t t that I acquire there and and expanding my palate inthat way has gotten in the way. If I felt like it, it only just helps, and it's certainly in the jazz in thereading world. It's it's made me more employable. Um Iyou know I've done a lot of teachingin the past that I haven't been teaching much lately, but it's givingme the tools to range and pass on that knowledge in an articulate way, which Ilove to be able to do. Can KINDOF continue that journey forpeople and pass it on. I love that part of it. You know it just yeah. I sort of unlocks a lotof the mystery of music, and you know it's not all unlocked it. It never willbe. You know an I feel like it's always. You know whenever you start an Yo songor start a new solo or whatever it is.

You know you can't you can't just plug in a formula, nomatter how much you know. That's that's not music, so you know you'll always bekind of o in the dark in certain ways. Right whenever you work not a new tuneor a new production or anything, it's just you're, always building it fromthe ground up, but to have that background of the knowledge and thatinformation behind for me has been really empowering. It's been really Um,it's Ust, it made me better and I so so that's t e long winted answer. Oh, I love it 'cause. I I think thattoo, but there's also nowadays too, there's also the whole well you'regoing to come out of school about a hundred grand in debt and then how areyou GOINGNA? You know so, there's I don't know. There's almost this thingof discouraging people to to go to great schools. You know, and I'm alwaysreally like H, that's true! I get it, but there's scholarships it. Just meas,you're GON NA have to work a little harder, but I just think that educationis always worth it. You know, yeah, that's a good point and certainlystuff is more expensive than ever the schools. I know Berkeley's, not cheap.I did take loans out, not luckily nothing close to a hundredgrand, of course we're taling. The late eighties, when I went there so y knowthe black. You know the thetuition was considerably less, but you know oprobably even adjusted for inflation. I would think but um yeah, the music is now too right, Arr, twothousand and twenty comparedto. We tot like you, Got Inter Ninety one similarto me late. You know I was late eighties and I mean look how much hat'schanged you know here we are here. We are everybody's wpeople are making elbums on theirlaptops. You know an everyone's a producer. Everyone's a producer, the conventional studio model short,still exists, but it's it's way diminished, um. You know those kind of jobs. A lot ofthose jobs have vanished right M. making money in album sales has gone almost completely away, notcomplan, but pretty Godyeah yeah. So I mean I would think that you know so youstart thinking about, like you said, land out a hundred grand to gosomewhere like. Where does that come back? Where does that come back? I mean, thank God, like let s keep ourfigures. CROSSD Anow, like Li F, entertainment, it's keeping US goingand we're still doing that we're O kiking we'r hitting the road. We canstill make a living doing that you know yea, which is why, this time it'sparticularly devastating 'cause. Now we can't even do that right. Thisparticular moment hat exactly exactly but yeah. It's it's! It's a really goodpoint and I've thought about that. Wh N, when I my mom, still lives right aroundthe corner: Merky Onposon, streetsg GE, a o, crazy, and you know I come back there and they've expandedthey're building a new building and the enrollment is up and I'm like wow. Whatis that you know? I I'm psyh for people that I love music and the kids arepassion and want to go and then have parents that are behind them and they're going andthey'r learning 'cause men. The thing is, even as the economics of a change that passion doesn't Change Right Imean Sto gn. You still have kids coming up that guest, so excited about songsand singing and playing and making records and producing and like thankGod that I mean no matter what's happening with the economics of it. ITIT doesn't make that other stuff goaway that stuff's just as fa as he's ever been yeah, and you know just ashumans. We have to pursue our passions and, like sometimes it's like economics, bedamned you know I mean yelike y a so I mean, but you know it's not all fromwhat I've heard. It's obviously not you know all doom. In gloom I mean there'splace, O athe's still need for music and film and T V. There's AD campaigns.There's there's, there's teaching, there's lick performance like we weresaying or I guess a lot of kids are making beats,sell their beats online. I don't know I know yeahand, that's the that's the oddpart about it really and not to sound like an old bitter guy, but um it's the need and the want, and thelove and the use for music is not diminished. Yet people's willingness topay for that has you know it's like Itud, be onething: If, if you owned a photomap and N, no one uses film anymore, you know people need music more thanever in love an want it yet there's just their desire to actually pay forit. Ike. Oh, we don't have to Wel we're not gonna, you know and whatever it is.What it is. It's not you know, there's nothing complaining about it hat goingto change it, but it is thing it's something to thinkabout when you're, you know as a...

...listener, I guess, when you'repurchasing music is that somebody put a lot of time and energy and probablyskills and and education and all thati know the same music it' t it's cheaperto make, but it's still not cheap to make per se like to you can't quantify it's hard to it'shard to quantify the amount of hours and dedication that it took to get tothat point from a to be able to do that masterfully from a plaing from awriting from a rang from a singing from a producingn point of view, all thosethings. How do you quantify that exactly but yeah most people, if they're paying it allright, they're paying ten dollars a month for spot of fi or ten dollars amonth, Rappo, music or Whald, Spen, O fifty bucks a year or something I don'teven know I dot know I did't I've never paid for that one I haven't. I think I did at one pointbut yeah. I have actually I have a spot of IA and Atamusic account now um andit's ten bucks a month. Man I mean I mean it is really sad. We shoudwe don'twant to go down that we don't want to be INSA. We don't want to get toodepressive about it or to do and gloom about it B, t 'cause. It is what it iswhere we are right now. I'VE HEARD ABOUT TITLE: I've been earing abouttitle yeah. I've heard well that again recently hi higher resolution streamingM for a similar amount of money and and they pay better artist royalties fromwhat I v what I've been reading that is cool, so Um yeah, it's difficult likehow much do you go against the tide? I mean, like that's thereality of what it is right, what we put on New Music Right, we'regoing to say: No, I'm not going to put it on me, ATII! No, I'm not going toput UNAPPLE thewoe. Then how are people going to hear it? You know, that'sthat's what they're listening to now yeah it's true, but you know het shoul bringup. It's good. It is sad when you got people that thathave no concept of why they would ever pay for music right rait's, like it'skind of like. Why would it you just Kindo want say? Well, here's why youknow, like you said, cost money to do it. It cost money to have the skills. So at the least people like pay the tenbucks a month right, don't do the spot, ified free thing, with the ads like Eviat the least pay the ten pucks like ten dollars a month for every song in theworld. You know it worth it like ten bolks, that's like one recorda month in nineteen and eighty six. You know what I mean exactly Yeaha, lower priced ones, 'causeweren't. They like lot of them were like sixteen. Ninety nine but yeah. Iremem, I remember going over the tower records. Remember across is gas. Was itwas still open right when you ye got there yeah that place was amazing. Iused to have up there, man, I would be buying CDs all the time nd yeah yeah,but yeah you would be like. Oh it's only. Eight. Ninety nine Oze a bargain.It's Na Han Bucks, tois amazing, yeahswhat, a steel. It's on sale, a'cause, you were buying, you know,you're buying records and you K, Ow, you're, trying to learn and you're,trying to socaall that information and music and so y. You know if you couldbuy. You know twenty records a week. You'd do it. You know like it. It Wa aninvestment just to be able to have access to all that music. I used to beover Hav loony tunes, Omblooni t an Angianasan yea ot get all my vinealthere. That place was great a minal. What was the there was records to heron Um? What's the other man now I can'tremember e tower records is on that street. Back Bay. Mmary comic, yes,Abry, COC mexwas on newburry tower was on the corner of newberry and MaraInrayea, a yeah, the newerk coms, Hout 's, another good place for for record. It was a gray place, Raisyeah, no Boston. I Miss Boston. I love going back there GDS. You do sometimesWeh once in a while on the Roaork Yon Ja I'll have like an afternoon thereand h once in a while I used to. I was playend with ckobot Su for twelve yearsfor for a long time, so we'd play scholars h years ago. So then we wouldbe there for like four or five days in a row. 'cause it was the club Gig. Youknow I love it. T would just take the subway in and and h I'd go see,recitals at Berkeley. You see what the kids are doing: EAN Ei Performance Center, yes yeah, soTatas Pretty O, but I think all that, like we've kind of already talked aboutbut h beyond, just foreigner and your jazzrecords you've had a suber eclectic career as far as like you've playedwith Shelby Lyn, Enrique glaces Um on Astasia, like you said, borner andBocags bosags like lot of yeah. That was incredible. That was really amazing,yeah, just og those songs and his his legacy. His his hits. You know T S, itwas called tore, so it was a lot of...

...stuff Orowa last UF from silk degreesfrom seventy seven. You Know Lito, shuffle and the funky low down and allthose kind of class yeah yeah. You know I met Bos 'cause, actually, atthe time boss was doing some standards e had a kind of parallelthing that he was doing, and I that's how I met him. Was I subbed playingpiano with him at a jazz festival up in Wa, think itwas Aspen Yeah, the Aspen Jazz Festival in Colorado and Ogotcha Yeah Snow, mywhite yeah, that's where I'm from so o great? Yes, I did that with him and atthe time it was just gootiming again ecause he was putting together his bandfor the hiad store that coming summer. That's cool, so m yeah. I think withSpring actually and we did, and so he was like eed someody, who plac be threeam Anorgani. I said I do that toto so and that's that's who I meant. How washe to work with? He was great man. It was such a sweet guy, um kind of understaded in a lot of ways,not a not just sort of calm, demeanor, I' sort of like stoic kind ofdemeanor. I would say in certain ways, but very kind, and you know generousdude and yeah. The shows were great and you knowhe has I following I mean you know at that time. I were playing a lot of thesame places that I play with foreigner now you know so that that classic rockcircuit, in a rate, a that's cool, we D comphrees down in San Diego. That wasthe ast one Humphrey's by the bay Um down in San Diego, and that's probablythe closest l, a thing we did and you were within Riki Glacius for a lotyears: Yeah Bout about a year and a half or two yeah, and how, as a Giglike that big popgig, how is that field different than being on a foreignergame? For instance, you know well, there's definitely just from aperformance, stanpwort therre on more backs involved, because you know therecords are sort of more. It's Im, I would say, nrikes, probably likeas the artist at a t, this point too 'cause. He came out in the ninetiesright N Y. U I mean all tha he's had he's, hada lot of hits even going into the two thousands Yo ow, so he's seems Lik, like he staydrelevant, pretty long pro te ive, you know, but yeah it was. It was much more of apop gig from the standpoint that there were more tracks involved and Um, obviously less rock yeah, some Ratar and stuff, but um alittle more on the popside ind that you know foreigner does not use tracks atall Gocyo. We do not use any track. Everything's live so you know so it'spretty typical for popacks to use some tracks because we am out in production.You have certain sounds that GE e pretty hard to recreate on stage. Youknow, so you just you do the you use some of those right, as you know so m,so it was different, maybe more like that, but yeah and he's KINDOFinternational heart throb. So so you know lots of screaming girls right, bigger venues, probably bigvenues- definitely yeah hug anes yeah. So I want to talk about your show likethe rest of us. I start O podcast. We I mean. What else are we going to do andyou guys start? Is it only on you tube or is it where it's actually on you toban all the podcast platforms? You know and so goes outs AE exactly so we film it. The main focus is the UTU, the zoomvideo part of it with some post production and stuff too, and but thenat all, the audiopursh gets pushed oun on spot of fine apple music, tooCoolyeah we've been doing that we started it in April uh, so we've been doing it for we're ot,slight hiatus right now we're kind of recontrigering a couple of things, butwe've done, we've done. Seventeen or eighteen shows. I think at this pointwe were doing BNIMA once a week. Just just show how long horant you know webasically once Qoruntid a we were off the road and that started early Aprilwe launched the firt show and it had been weakly since then, until just thispast week, but yeah, so it all Kindo came aboutbecause Bruce- and I would do these vibs stands for very important beer.Yes, we would. We were doing those on the road. So if we had a night off- and there was a brewry within strikingdistance- we would you know, try to hook something up where we would comeand do a little acoustic show either bring two guitars or a Gasar on akeyboard and o play. So foreigner songs, drink some of their local beer meet upwith the fans. Do some pictures some signings and it just kindo- became likea kind of like a a meat and green sort of thing, though, with a little concertand kind of Hang, you know with the centerepiece being local craft beer,you guys gove up with a lot of beers that I've never heard, of which I love'cause, I'm you know I like beer yeah, so we do obviously the IPAs you're fromColorado. If the IPAS are huge up there...

...yeah. That's I thin for sure you likeips yeah, it's my Oa yeah got one right now, actually o dng, lateral, lateralHaz by Gbelemout of Texas of Dalla, and we actually had them as a sponsor onthe last spear show very ill. They sent us sent us a bunch of beer but yeah, so it just it started sort oflike in Quarantin. We can't do these shows. We can't do these actual events.So let's do it virtually. You know, ono guess you know that's kind, really,interesting and and h. You know it's it's much like a lot of POKASS ow in interms of interviewing guests and stuff, but the thing I love about the visual'cause. I I just do the audio, but it's like we get to see everybody's homestudio yeah, so that's Kinda cool. Then you get inright now, y a Syo, you got you' got lots of Guitaris and bases back there.I love it yeah yeah I'. I finally have a pretty pretty OK. I turned my garageinto a studio last year, so I was I'm pretty pretty comfortable, but it seemslike especially in this coved time, but like kind of in general, I feel likethe home studios is just another thing that you have to have like it's justsuch an essential thing of being a musician in the modern times. You know'cause people they can't afford studio time or maybe they just don't want toor there's timing things, and it's like more and more, I just send they send metracks. I send out base tracks, you know govocals whatever and absolutely Imean insor, you know and I think ime it seems like you are nd, I'm really intoit, and I love love doing I love producing and youknow, mixing and all that stuff. By up I it's at the very least. I think you H,you have to be able to at least get a tone at home. Like you know, youdon't have to have all the most fancy gear in the world, but you know rights,Basll, playr be able to G, get a good di signal and probably amp your cabinetto and do a mix, the kind of classic thing mix the two things and bea tocome up with that. Nd put it even if it's simple right into your your laptopwith an interface you know, and if you don't have a treated room, that'sacusically treated, don't even necessarily need all those things whichist the ability to capture a good signal or whatever of your voice oryour instrument yeah, I would say that's pretty essential for the modernmusician yeah and I kindof got drug into it. I Li I enjoy it now, but Ibasically self taught after years of just pulling my hair out, you know, andrecently I've taken some online courses- and you know just cool- get a reallydeep in a little deeper into like mixing and stuff, because now I'm alsolooking for different skills and different things, I can do to makemoney. 'cause E can't play you Kno, but H, but I think it's only in the lastcouple of years where it's like all that gear has become part of theinstrument you know and part of the flow of stuff you know, but that thathats taken a long time to at first I was like you know. I was making thesedemos for songwriters people. I was collaboring collaborating with and Iwas like. I don't really want to be a producer. It's not really my thing, butthen it just down on me that like well lookman like it or not, your being aproducer like Amajocemos and I'm the one that has the gear, so I just I'dbetter get better at it. N got not something I always wanted to do,but it was like well you're doing it and and we're giving demos to share youknow like and and Nowadays Demos, don't they're, not like you trashing on yourdums in your garage like the demosst sound, like finished products, and youknow this stuff has to be killing. So you know I sort of you don't have todrag you. Do it yeah. You don't have to be the best mixed engineer in the world,but you should be able to get a good, balanced thing that we hand out. Wal, depended or obviously fulfilledthe stuff that I've done for T V, yeah. There's. No! I mean I'm mixingnmastering at all right. You know. So it's like it', just yeah it it it's a brave new world. Youknow, but I kind of on one hand it's sad. I I think it', it's IT'S IECONOMY!I mean, I think it's appare. You know it S. it's both things. It's sort ofsad that these people that spent decades becoming great mixd engineersor like great mastering engineers, if sort of Liko and it's not ringing asmuch Ra budgets and people ar you know doing an you know it. Consequently,there's a lot of subpar stuff. That's that's you know out there. That's youknow passing is right. It's just sort of Lik. Like anything, there's degreesof excellence. Right I mean you can kind of get like. Okay, there's a lotof people that are like they're, okay, I can get an OK mix, they're, prettygood, you knowright Ye f. You want t o at least be an apport like, like yousaid, though, if you're, if you're gota number one right get t get a greatbas, sound yeah for share you're, anbasion, Laer, yeah,...

...sorry, yeahlike, th, the bare minimumofpay as a keyboard pack like it's hard to Bu Somany hours, MPEOP, my keyboard, traks,better sound, fantastic right Y, a a' be giving them and best as whetherthey're plug Kins or whether I'm actually recording a real instrument.It's got to sound world class. Just you just got to do it that WAA yeah for sure, and I was also listeningto your sound cloud- black beagles, sound yeah, that's my studio, blackpeople, sound e act, yeah stuff sounds great. So is that a lot of licinglicensing stuff? Is that what you're it's a real mix? I mean I don't knowhow far you went down it, but I have so many different kinds of things, some ofit like Hav pop productions. Some of them are my original songs thatyou w some, some of which haven't been released yet atya singer Song Ver things Um,instrumental jazz it it' kindo. Like me, it's all over the place you know yeah,but yes, but some of the stuff was has been licensed for for T v. You know thit's in it's in music libraries, some of it is yeah. Well, it all soundsgreat. It's it's Kindo cool because there's like I do a little bit oflicensing too and that the fun part about it, which is evident in in thesound class like whatever idea you have that day, you can make it. You knowwhat I like: It's really and it's like you know. I feel like Mak Ang, a Otrock song today, so sobetly not my to go down that path and- and you knowprobably somebody will like it somewhere. You know we'll figure outwhere to put it afterwards, but it just allows you to be pretty creative andECLECTIC with your creativity. You know I mean I'm sure that probably a markgetting strategist or strategist oradigital strategists would say. Well,we need to focus your S, your sound cloud page a little more and make it alittle more identifi you go down if you actually go downlike togethers straight edge, azed up, theres, Ait, Sik, more old school hip,hop there's, you know, but there's kind of like Downtempo, chill kindof music,like sort of in the vie of the paint od black single that that just gotreleased yeah. So I it's kind of all over. But that's me I just have a lotof different styles and I love a lot of different bibes. So I just I don'tfight it. Io Kno, it all comes out, and I just put it up. You know an I thinkabout after all, this bitter talk that that's the positive of of what'shappening now. Yes, there is a lot of places to put your music, no matterwhat kind of music can make and or if you make a lot of different music. Youknow if you'R E, if you're Kinda, diligent about it and meet the right people, a d you knowlicensing is still a pretty big way to to make some money yeah. No there's!Definitely I've got a lot of stuff. A lot is relative. I mean, as we know,with the streaming Um royalty rates for cable Te, Bang with it porfurly. Youknow I have stuff loading around and, and you know, Netlik shows Amazon crime that showmarvelous Miss Maizl. I had I didahole q a whole album of straight EAD jazztracks, one of Hem e go like a whole minute and a half in the scene in theMarvelous Mos Musle that which is so cool you knos La there sitting down atthe bar and AD. If you were familiar with that showH, yeah yeah, it's Great Cho, Lov Ts, I e Kindo early sixties, Manhattan, anshe's, a comedian, yeah and but anyway, they're sitting in a bar and there'sthis jazz kind of uptempo sort of Beebout, Jazz. Think clan that I didand it'as pretty cool to watch that and they're talking and it's playing behindthem. For you know good M, honseconds or so yeah. Back to what I was saying,I lost the train. I thought there, but yet to make a living doing that stuff. Youbetter have thousands tens of thousands of themgbitting in rotation all the time you know, Youe got Ta, have the majornetwork stuff, which of course pays a better roaty rate. Prime time you know,then you go you'll have the cables. You don't have Neflix, who hose shows,which bases substantially lower rates. You knowit'sit's, you know it's justreally about having a lot of them. I I feel, like I got into that game alittle later. I know guys that have been doing that stuff for so long thatthey've accrued so much of it that they actually war their their royalty. CECKSare pretty nice because they got in t earlier. You know Um y H, but I M I'mhappy to be in the game anyway to have some stuff out there yeah and I thinkthat's like what it is to be a musician too. It's just about all these incomestreams. You know you just do it all and and somehow the renk gets paid. Youknow it's exciting, though again going backgoing back to the positive, I mean:How cool is it that, like guys like us that weren't like engineers they'r likeproducers, whatever? Now we have the tools that Aur disposal to to make ourstuff sound good? You know I mean, and it's sort of like it's a double egdsort. You know sure it's! The downsiside is that the people thatwere masters at that that are masters at that that have been mixing andproducing as long as we've been playing...

...our instruments right, right, they're,they're, seeing less work, but then, but hat it's. It's empowering for US'cause. We've got all these great tools. You K O right right. Well, this hasbeen awesome. Man a lot of great stuff. I really appreciate you doing the showmy pleasure. That was a great great question. T's great questions, good,good stuff, it's out! You know it's good to remember we're all kind ofall on this together now and this new, you know the coved world and makingsenseive it all and Mak the modern musician career. You know just justtalking about that and comparing Tho is always fun. Can I j? I just want to putone last little plug that one soun we didn't talk about. I did a corona song reat. I heard her go therd, yea yeahand it actually got some love on you too and at's. It's called Y Corona andH, it's an original song and that came out back in April, so yeah. If you wantto RTHAT's also on all platforms, Spotiffi, apple, music and everythingtoo, and there's a video official video for it. Soyeah it's AC, it's actellyn!I that's the person E. I listen to 'cause it's the first one that comes upon your. If you just you know, search you on Spygoy has gotten the O Ora, yetive gotten the most hits, because you kind of went through some of theforeigner channels which, as we know, you levers the power of right, yeah,bigger, bigger beast: You can, you, can g get some more eyeballs on it, butyeah anyw yeah? Absolutely I appreciate it. You're an Auesone player you've hada awsome career and M. Thank you man back at you. Hopefully, on s playanother horrible, jazzgag sometime, hopefully yopl another gg. I always think of the keyboard playersas like the mad scientist of the band, and when he was talking about thekeyboard rig for foreigner, it really reminded me of how complicated that jobcan be 'cause. Not only do you have to be able to play, but you also have tohave a deep understanding and knowledge of gear and sounds and how to programand how to get those sows and h. You know he's a a great example that andhe's singing as well so um. I just have a base and a cable andan amp most of the time. We also were joking about thesteakhouse Gig that we did nd, but I think it's a really good example of why,if you're living in a major city like L, a or New York or Nashville, wherever Um,you really have to take every gig seriously 'cause. I did a handful ofthose gigs and I never knew who was going to be on it and you know.Sometimes it was good. Sometimes it wast it wasn't. But every time I showedup, I had to be prepared and I had to be ready to play 'cause. You never knowwho's going to be there and playing, and you never know who's going to be inthe crowd. You know just having a drink 'cause. It is Los Angeles, so Um. Ithink it's a good thing to think about and thinto remember and that night I met anawesome player. I am behind on the cost of releasing asingle, apparently Um song trader is five dollars a month or forty ninedollars a year. Unlimited releases and Distro kid like Um Michael brought up is nineteen ninetyninety year for unlimited releases. So that's an amazing deal. I've done acouple of records, troh CD baby and that's still twenty nine dollars peralbum in nine. Ninety, nine per single and and the same goes for tunecorse. Sothat's a little less economical but UM. I don't know now that I know aboutthose other deals. You might be hearing some more music from me and the guys wementioned from Berkeley that had musical families, one wat, Matthew,garrison and he's the son of Jimmy Garrison. His legendary base player forJohn Coletrain and Ornet Coleman, and also Abraham Laboriel Junior, is theson of Abraham Laboriel, whose list of credits is Wa too Longd to to mentionhe's another legendary base player. You should definitely know him H and Abraham Leboreel junior actuallyplays drums with Paumccartney, so he did quite well after Berkeley Um. TheNAM show we mentioned NAM, Nam, m STANDSFOR, North American music,mergants and its basically, a big convention that happens in January inAnaheim and musicians show up in droves to either sort of shake hands withtheir the companies that they endorse or play for the companies and orsometimes shop for new endorsements, but also it's just a really big. Hangit's sort of the once a year that everyone shows up an and and seiz each other, and most people goand- and everyone complains about it every year, it's kind of a traditionand the book steel, like an artist, is by Austin cleon and there's actually asummary on it on audible, dotcom. If you like, audiobooks O, if you do go toaudiotrial dotcom, slash, dive bar rock...

...star and Um, you could sign up for afree trial and listen to that book and you'd really be helping out the podcasthere. Well, I really hope you had a great time. Wow you've made it to the end, I'mhoping it's because you completely enjoyed yourself and are now filledwith knowledge and inspiration to move forward with your dreams. If that isthe case, and you would like to stand formed, Ot new episodes live events andGeneral News, please go to dive bar rocks, stoour, dotcom and sign up withthe malinist. Do you have any questions, comments, corrections or complaintsabout anything you hear on the show? Please email me at ban mail at Dibar,Rockstar DOTCOM and you may even end up on the show we at the Dibar Rock Starpodcast with all of our hearts. Thank you for listening and remember. It'sall about dreams.

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