The Dive Bar Rock Star Podcast
The Dive Bar Rock Star Podcast

Episode 24 · 1 year ago

Joe Travers- Happy Franksgiving! (Joe Satriani, Dweezil/Ahmet Zappa, Duran Duran)


Drummer, Joe Travers, reflects on his years as the “Vaultmeister” for the Zappa Family Trust and explains his duties there. He talks about his first gig in Los Angeles with Dweezil and Ahmet Zappa which was attended by Frank Zappa himself. He gives an inside look into his time touring with Duran Duran and how he got the gig. Joe remembers his journey from Berklee College of Music to California where his career took off and talks about the upcoming documentary, “Zappa”.

Zappa Movie Trailer:

Waiting For Monday:

If you are a fan of the dive bar Rockstar podcast and would like to help support the show, there's a great way that you could do that and start a new fashion trend. We have a new merchandise page on the website, which features t shirts and hoodies that are available for sale on Amazon. Just click on merchandise and the top menu and all of the links will be there, or go directly to dive Bar rockstarcom merchandise. Get started early on your Christmas shopping at dive Bar rockstarcom. Welcome to the dive Bar Rockstar podcast, the show exploring the lives of professional musicians of all types, touring musicians, recording artist, songwriters, engineer's bar bands, wedding bands and anyone making their living in the music industry. Whether you've dreamed of being a professional or you already are one, this is the podcast for you. I'm your host, Eric Baines, and I hope that you not only find some entertainment here, but also some helpful tips, trade secrets and ideas that will help you achieve your dreams. It's the week of Thanksgiving, two thousand and twenty, and, of course, the coronavirus is on attack. Worse than it's ever been. And you know, I know it's different in different places and I happen to live in Los Angeles, which we have the most cases right now, but we're also the biggest county in all of the US and bigger than a lot of other parts of the world as well. So it's tricky, but and it's also hard to make the decision between sea and family and trying to avoid this disease. That's been confusing at best, you know, to figure out. But I hope everybody stays healthy and safe and has an awesome holiday, because I do think there's still quite a bit to be thankful for and things could always get worse. So you know, it's it's the season of gratitude and that's never a bad thing. But there's a new documentary coming out and for those of you that know me personally, I call myself a documentary junkie because I just I love them. So I'm excited and the documentary is about Frank Zappa comes out this week. So we are going to call this frank's giving. I stole that from my guest, but I think it's awesome. My guests today has been the vault Meister, quote unquote, for the Frank Zappa vault for many, many years and he's helped to put together the soundtrack for this movie, which was written and directed by Alex Winter, who you may know as bill from the bill and Ted Movies. I've only seen the trailer but it looks incredible, so I'll put a link in the show notes to the trailer and you can find the movie on De and and I maybe in the theaters, if they're still theaters open in your area. My guess is also an incredible drummer who is played was so many great people like Dweezel Zappa, I'm at Zeppa, Duran Duran, Joe Satriani, missing persons, the motels, Steve V and a band that I played with called waiting for Monday that you've probably heard a lot about on the show, just to name a few. And he's a great guy with a great story. So I hope you enjoy my conversation with Joe Travers Star. Much of your career has revolved around, obviously, the music of Frank Zappa. Yes and I was wondering, like how did you get to that music? When did you first hear that music, and what happened to you that you decided to kind of dedicate your entire life and career, you know in a way, to Frank Zappa and his music. Well, it started when I was ten years old in like mainteens, seventy nine. Yeah, I was ten in one thousand nine hundred and seventy nine, and my main source of like music exposure around that time was my family. So I had a I had an uncle who was ten years older than me, who was my father's brother, and he was, you know, if I was ten, he was twenty. And also my mom and dad were, you know, listening to music a lot and stuff. My Dad was a drummer and he was playing music. So I was getting exposed to a lot of different stuff and in a very, very early age, right and my uncle. Well, basically it was like this. I was hanging out at a friend's friends plates and his name was Ritchie and he had an older brother and his older brother used to play college radio and it was like a Saturday afternoon and I remember we were just hanging out at the House and he had the college radio going, a college radio, and Erie Pennsylvania was the station that would allow for like album tracks you know, it wasn't like the regular pop am stuff that you would...

...normally hear. So and the song city of tiny lights came on from the album shaky booty, and when it came on I just remember just stopping everything and walking over to the Stereo and just listening, going like wow, what, this is interesting. What the Hell's this? You know, and then the DJ said that was, for example, with study Tony Lad so from shooting from the new album Shaker booty, you know, and I was like, Frank Zappa, I never, I'd never heard of them, you know. So I went back to my uncle who, like I told you, was the main source of my, you know, musical exposure at that time, and I said, who's friend Zappa? You know, I never I heard the song was pretty cool. WHO'S FRIEND ZAPPA? And any at first he was like, oh, that's just a guy who likes the yell at his audience, ha ha, it's hilarious. But Gary Ere I ended up getting that record shake your booty, and when I heard that, I mean I don't know if you're familiar with that record, but you know when you're ten years old and you hear songs like Bobby Brown and broken hearts of for assholes and, you know, Mama and stuff like that. The humor and the words and stuff would just like it was a full on mind blower and me being a drummer at such an early age, I knew, even though it was like way above my head, you know, I knew that the music was special. I just I just knew it at that young age, right. So my curiosity just went crazy and as I got older I just really wanted to just learn more about about him and just about his music. And the more that I kept getting the records and and stuff, the more that I just kept falling in love with it. Like the world of frank was just like such a was like a world that was just sucking me in. And and one of the things too, that was challenging at that point. This would have been like the early S, like her likee eighty two around there and stuff, and most of his records were out of print. You couldn't get them. They were rare, you know, especially to the sixty stuff. You know, there was no way you can get that shit. So the only way that you could get it is if you like ran across a sealed copy that had been sitting in a record store forever or you got them used right. So so it was a challenge for me to collect the records because it would that made it even more mystifying for me, like I want this stuff so bad and I can't get it right. And was the Internet. So so that made it even more like, you know, like a thing where I just wanted to just start getting into it. So I literally fell fell in love, and I mean simultaneously I would discovering so much other music to write but frank just kept on being that guy that kept just grabbing, grabbing my attention and I just kind of I just kind of fell into it, man. You know, I just I just kept falling in love with everything that I heard. And then when there's a when you look at the catalog and you're like Holy Shit. At that time it was like there's like fifty records. Yeah, nearly. You're like, you're like, Holy Shit, there's fifty records I could check out of this guy. That's like it's like a lifetime of listening and ha ha ha. Yeah, I can't even imagine, you know this, the time that it would take to make one song on one of those records and then you've got fifty, I think it's fifty six records all together. Well, now we're at a hundred and twenty or something like that. It's unbelievable the amount of releases that we have. But when he by the time that he had passed, he was in the s. He had like sixty two or something like that, something there, you know, something like that. And I mean, yeah, he had an unbelievable work ethic and and you know, music was his life and it doesn't surprise me that he was releasing like three records, you know, a year sometimes, you know, because his output was insane. Wow, that's incredible. He started playing with Z first, is that right? Yes, I got the GIG with on it and dwizzle ZAMPA's band about six months after I moved to Los Angeles and my in one thousand nine hundred and ninety three. I I you know, went to Berkeley College of music and I totally just immersed myself in different styles and just wanted to be a better player and and really kind of just prepare myself for for the you went to Berkeley to write, I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we might have overlapped by a semester. I was there like ninety one to ninety three. Yeah, so I mean that that time in Boston was really good for me. There was a lot of benefits. It was super beneficial for me at that time to interact with the musicians and learn different styles of music and and and I had set the goal like I'm going to graduate, like most people were just like I'm just going to go and check it out and...

...then they just failed. Most guitar players went there just because Steve I went there. You know what I mean, right. But I set the goal like I was like I'm going to graduate, like I'm going to do this program and I'm going to get it done and then I'm going to go out to La and just you know, and then just whatever happens happens. Well, the timing was pretty amazing because by the time I got there they were looking for a drummer. So I you know, I just because I had met Mike Keneely in Boston at while I was going to Berkeley. We had kept in touch the entire time that I was getting ready to make that transition and so when I moved to Laken, neely toldwezel. He was like hey, you remember that Drummer Joe Travers, and I told you about or whatever. He said, yeah, and he said, well, he lives out here now, you know. And he said, well, dude, haven't come come down in audition. So it just happened, you know, it just came together like that, and and I got the GIG. That was in one thousand nine hundred and ninety three, and I haven't look back. You know, wow, in six months, that's pretty good. It's not bad. I was like so hungry that I would have I was going for it, like I was trying so hard to get my name around and, yeah, just play. You know how it is, you know. And this is in this is back when there's like again, no youtube, no Internet, no way to have that kind of social networking. So I was the guy who was like walking around town with a friggin press kid with a head shot and and VHS tape with my playing and a little bio and all this shit, like I was going for like I super I was so super ready and super into it and but yeah, it's just, you know, and it's funny too, because if you would have said, like what's your ultimate Gig, like what is the Gig that you would just love to do. The first thing that I would have wanted to do is to play with whizzling on, and that's exactly what happened. is so kind, so crazy to think about it now you know this all these years later. You know. Yeah, wow, VHS, that's pretty advanced, like because everybody at that time, you know, they were like, you know, I had a guesst a CD or cassette or something, and I was like fuck that, I'm going to go visual, like I want people to stand ha ha ha. Yeah, I had a CD, but I had like I had like a thirteen minute compilation of like like Danny Serafin caught. I'd worked with him, so he called my answering machine and left a little thing on my ash reason. So I had them all spliced in with people I'd worked for and then like segments of songs I'd recorded, you know, and it was all narrated by a friend of mine. So I try to go a little bit more intense to but still just a CD. I I think you, Danny Saraphied Man, I fucking I love that guy. Yeah, I love his drumming, and that's like one of the very first guys that I've ever that I ever like heard as a superco mean one thousand nine hundred and seventy. I was two years old and my mom was playing those Chicago records. She loved them. Yeah, I was just like that was just like background music for me, you know. And so and and I've had a couple instances of meeting him and talking to him and he was always super cool. You know, he's a great guy. I've known it for over twenty years now and we've just worked on and off together and every time I'm with him I'm just like, I can't even believe that you know my name. You know what I mean. It's like one of those I'm sure you have the same experiences, but I'm a big fan him, big fan of the of the Danny Saraphy. Yeah, yeah, Great Dude, really fun to play with. Speaking of fun to play with, I mean so Dweezel and I'm it. I've but I was watching a bunch of interviews with them today and they just seemed like the craziest dudes. That must have been just a totally nutty Yig. You know, the thing about those two together at that time was like the both of them together equaled frank in a way, because we's all was coming from the music side of things where like, you know, just like really devoted to playing the guitar and and the music side. Not that I'm it wasn't, but but I'm it's sense of humor and his unpredictability and his just the sheer balls of you know, just saying that he would say at any time and stuff that dynamic, mixed in with with Dweezel, really kind of again made me. It was like wow, there's frank right there, you know what I mean? Like those you separate them and you and it's like to ingredients and then you put them together and a kind of equals, you know, it kind of equals what you would expect. You know, right, right, and it was really fun during that time to be in that band because, you know, when they were getting along, of course, but but it was so fun because because it was just like ratifying every day, like I would be sitting there rehearsing all this music and and you know, can Eli's in the band and at first it was Scott Tunis on Bass and then later on and ended up being Brian Beller on Bass right and and I was you know, great friends with all these guys. So the so the commoderie was there. We were rehearsing every day. The band was fucking insanely tight. I mean so tight, so good, you know, at that time, and and I just felt like, oh my God, there's nothing that we can't do like we are, like I'm ready... conquer the world with this thing. Really Fun. It was really fun. Unfortunately, it didn't last. You know, they broke up in ninety six. You know, that's kind of when it dissolved. But but during those between ninety three and ninety six it was really there. was that band was really special. There was something going on there. You know, the timing of it was interesting too, because if you think about the music that was happening Eric at that time, like you know, it was like we're coming out of the hair metal days, right, we're coming out of extreme and that kind of stuff. You know, new know and and things like that, but you know, Nirvana and Pearl Jam and temple the dog and all that stuff is coming around, and so it's like transition point. And so the thing about whizzling on its band is that, because it was so potent musically that we kept our heads above water right stead instead of getting drowned out by the the you know, the the CIAUS dynache nails was super happening at that point and I mean, you know, there was just like there was a lot of room for good s, good, good, good playing rock and roll band still, right, even though it was getting simpler and Grungier and more rocking and stuff. But the but the whole hair thing was just like we were kind of like on the cusp of the out of that right in the end of the day, was interesting, but you know, it was. It was fun while I lasted, for sure. Yeah, because one of the interviews I saw was on MTV. I mean dweezel still was sort of connected with the MTV thing because I remember watching him on MTV growing up a lot, because he was kind of a host really, you know, like a holdway. I don't know if he was an official VJ, but he was. He like had a show or whatever, you know, so he was he was like almost of I think it's pretty much an official DJ. He was on there a lot. Yeah, and yeah, I mean that was a good time for his career because he had his solo records that we're doing pretty good. You know. He had a couple of them and he was on MTV like a lot, getting a lot of exposure. Moon was around at that time with him. So, you know, it was kind of like the both of them. Right, frank was alive and his career was thriving and MTV was was just super happening. Like MTV, was it? You know? Yeah, Oh, yeah, that was a good time for them, for the ZAPPA's. Yeah, still had music on MTV. Yeah, yes, some people might not realize that the m actually stands for music, right, that's right. Now, it's now it stands for monotonous, but exactly so. was was frank still alive when you were working with them? Did you get a chance to meet him? And I did. I did get a chance to meet him. It was very limited time, timing wise, because I joined in March of one thousand nine hundred and ninety three and he passed away in December. So I didn't get I didn't get that many opportunities, but he did see me play with the band very and he was he was like super thumbs up, which, you know, made my heart just you know. So I was just like, oh my God, my hero, you know and and and I did actually get a chance to sit with them a couple times and and listen to a little bit of music, listen to him work, and he totally knew that I was a freak for him without me even having to say anything, like he could just read my energy, you know, like he just knew. You know. So it was pretty amazing and it's it's sad that, timing wise, I just I just didn't get the chance to have more of those opportunities, you know, but that's kind of just the way that it worked out. Yeah, well, it's amazing, with a guy that prolific, to think about had he lived longer, like how like your real you know, he was fifty two years old, you know, like like it was really young and I'm fifty two right now. Right. I mean, could you imagine what he would be able to do with the technology the way that it is now, with, you know, the pro tools and just the way that everything is? I mean, he was a point. He was a pioneer for for everything digital. Yeah, the earliest digital audio workstations in the single of beer and all that stuff, and I mean, yeah, I mean, and it's crazy to think about what he could have accomplished how he had all that stuff on his side. Yeah, it's almost like he knew in a way. Maybe that's why it was so prolific. You know, I don't know. Yeah, I'M gonna hurry to get all that stuff out, you know. Yeah, yeah, crazy, but it is fun to I was just, you know, going through some of the records on spotify, because most of that stuff is up there, and really fun to just hear the technology in what's there and how, you know, he used it all and it's just each record gets crazier and crazier. You know, technology wise, it's, I mean, absolutely unbelievable. Nobody needs my my opinion on that to chime in, but it was a man. It's it's pretty amazing time. I haven't I feel like maybe you can speak to it.

I don't know. They're you're either a Zapp of person or you're not. It's a particular thing that's like. You know, I think most fans come to it in the way you did, where they hear that and it's just like Oh, this is this is me. It's almost a culture, you know, and it's interesting that there's it does there doesn't seem to be that many casual friend Zappa fans, you know right. It's like they're just like when they get it, they're like, Holy Shit, they like so they're so consumed to buy it. They so they're like lifers. They just go in, you know, and then then, then, there, and then, or they're just like this, this is just way too you know, does humor belong in music? That's the eternal question. You know, it's like this, is this too goofy for me, or this is too musically over my head, like where's the beat, you know, or whatever, like yeah, you really have to be you really have to admire the influences and the ingredients that make up his music in order to really get it, you know, like you you know he was like classically oriented with Doo wop and RNB and with with humor, you know, Spike Jones and and you know, since a humor thrown in on the side, and you swirl all that together and it's like, you know, you have to really kind of like be able to respect that stuff in order to kind of get it. If you can't, then that's okay. You know, it's not for you, right, but I think it's also music that's meant to be listened to. Like you don't throw it on while you're mowing the lawn. You know what I mean? Are like, I'm going to do some yoga and it's not background music. It's, it's, it's. Yeah, it's a man demands your attention. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and there's this man and you blink your eyes and you blink your ears and you miss so much. You know, so much goes by so fast and a lot of those songs it's it's pretty amazing. I was watching a lot of zappa plays, Zappa and and you are part of the original lineup of that right and yes, yes, manned. It's unbelievable because it's it's been called like a tribute band. I've seen it, but it's it's really not, because it involves a lot of people that played with in the beginning anyway, people that play like Terry Bosio was on it, right, yeah, by and Napoly A, Murphy Brock and Ray White. Yeah, yeah, and then, you know, eventually Dwezel just wanted to, you know, try to establish that unit as its own thing without having to rely on having those guys. That was one of the things I know that he wanted to do and that original band, you know, was only really pretty special, you know. So we were there was a lot of talent there and there was in the beginning there was a lot of good spirits to you know, like we were all kind of just like a team and we wanted to do the music justice. And can we you know, I think we really definitely accomplished that. It wasn't easy, but but it was. It was cool. I lasted pretty long there. I stopped with them in twenty, twelve or thirteen, I can't remember. Something like that. The Internet says two thousand and thirteen. That thank you. Thank you. My memory is crazy that. You know. It's crazy is that at that time when I left Zappa play Zappa, I had been playing with Weizel for twenty years. Wow, that's great easing. That's incredible. A long time to like. What was your process? I mean, obviously you're a huge fan, so you've heard these songs a million times, but to watch everybody play this music for two hours completely memorized. No one's reading charts. Like what's the process of even learning an eight minute? I mean most of these songs are like eight minutes long on the records, then you go live and you're doing solos. I mean it's a lot of stuff to to retain. You have to be that kind of a musician where you've got the ears to memorize things. That's the first thing, and then the second thing is you just have to have the budget right, because if you have enough time to sit there and rehearse these people right and if they can retain the stuff, then that's what it's about. It's about having musicians that can retain it and then having the budget to get them up and running for and and for a significant amount of rehearsal time so that you can go out there and have a confidence sounding group to play the stuff the way that it's meant to be played, because that was frank's thing. It's like accuracy, m you know, that was like a big deal for him. He didn't really like a lot of mistakes. You know, you really wanted to hear the stuff played right and so you can't like but that was actually Eric. That's one of the frustrations that he had with working with orchestras because in the world of orchestras, your you really don't get a lot of rehearsal time right. So, you know. So it's just part of this the way that that culture works. You know, you get like to two, three days maybe Max, and then they just then you're playing with La Fill your point where you're playing. You know what I mean. But that music is pretty demanding and frank was pretty pretty much a stickler for wanting to hear certain things a certain way, and so you really need to be able... like have a unit that that is willing to spend the time, love the music enough to spend the time to make it right. And that was a lot of frustration for him, is that the orchestras didn't give a fuck. They were just like this is a Gig, here's crazy music, I'm you know, we've got two days to get it up and running. We're going to do the best we can and if it doesn't work out, they could get care less. You know what I mean? Yeah, I was. That was tough for him. So yeah, that was like we really wanted to just like do it right, you know, at that time. And so did you start with the charts, like his charts, or did you just learn it off the records? Or it was both? It was both, and we also we had some advantages because we were able to go to the actual stems of some of the original song. Wow, cool. Yeah, so we could hear isolated parts and, you know, like I would have, I would have sit down meetings with like Sheila and Jamie and Aaron and I would play them like here's the flute part, Here's the guitar, the Rhythm Guitar Part, you know, and they would like pick out the notes and they write like a little cheat sheet down and then they would implement that, you know, and stuff into the rehearsal for the next couple days. And we also did. We actually, you know, I would dip into some of the old parts too, and we would try and get some of Frank's original parts. That would that would be written not everything was written out, but if it was written out, you know, Gail was kind enough to let us kind of sift through the archives and find some of that stuff. So that was super beneficial, obviously, and it kind of helped separate us from everybody else because we had that major advantage of the stems and the parts. Right, HMM, Yep. And and so how much rehearsal time did it take? I believe there was months yeah, yeah, in the beginning there was months and then the units stayed together for a while and throughout time, like as the years progressed and stuff, we didn't need as much because, you know, we had put the time in to learn massive vocabularies worth of tunes. But dwezel would always like pile on the tunes, you know, like he was famous for, like okay, here's twenty five songs that I want to do, and we would just be like Holy Huh, you know, he's all right for going to learn twenty five songs, and everybody would go go home, you know, shedding all this stuff, and then when the time came, we got to maybe like eleven of them. You know, it was like self frustrating, like dude, don't, don't pile it on, man, you know, like it's the worst. Yeah, worst. I mean, we know we're all getting paid and everything, but still it's like I felt bad for everybody like going home and shedding twenty five kind of hard, kind of hard songs, you know, little bit, oh my gosh. Yeah, that drives me nuts. Just in general. Would people bog you down so then you can't learn, you can't spend the time on the songs that you really want to because there's so many songs, and then when you get to the rehearsal and you're only doing a feuse, like I could have really killed these few songs if yeah, absolutely, absolutely, there's no doubt about it. You know, it's like, yeah, it's kind of like, you know, a good organizational skills, like, let's just focus on these and make that best as we can be. You know. Yeah, so when you're playing this stuff, like normally for me anyways, like I'm kind of just focused in on the drums, because I'm a Bass Player, I'm listening to the kick drum and the high hat and I'm just trying to lock this. Music is not really like that, like because it's sometimes it's really funky and really groovy. Other Times there's lines that you're doubling with the guitar player or or just the keyboard player. So, like what's in your monitor? Like what do you focused on? Do you have a general thing or you just constantly you know, okay, now I gotta listen to that. Now I got to listen to this. Like the sound check must be a nightmare. Well, you know, once we went in ears, we were all in heres and stuff, and so it was like kind of like a monitor nightmare, a monitor man nightmare. But at one point dwizzle went with this system where everybody had their own mixer, right, so we were kind of like all cool up dialing up our own things, you know. And plus in the beginning of the in the beginning tours, we were playing with video, so we were actually playing with Frank Oh, which was cool. So we had like like my mixer. I had a mixer. I was the one that had a mixer, my own isolated mixer, before anybody else in the band, because I was the one driving everybody with the click track to the video guys. So I had like a stereo mix of the band, the live band, fed to me from the Monitor engineer, and then I had one track of click and then one track of the of Frank's vocal and guitar from the video. So I had like basically one, two, three, like for four tracks that I was kind of like mixing in real time as I was playing. But here's the thing. During the rehearsal time I was super involved and like like... to like to make sure that everybody was playing the right shit, you know. So we were dissecting everything during rehearsals, but that band was so good and so consistent that once they got the stuff up and running, I didn't really have to like monitor that shit anymore. Like I felt like I didn't have to constantly almost everybody, you know, once they got it up and running, they were there, you know, and then and by the time our first shows came it was like, well, we did that, we did the work and now it's up to you. At that point, right though, I didn't have to have all those instruments just blaring away. I just had to have a really kind of you know, wanted if I wanted to fill my drums and I wanted to just kind of get an overall, but I didn't have to have everything like super screaming loud and you know, and all that stuff like at that by that time I was just kind of coasting. Once we get to the shows, it's just like just give me a good decent mix, you know, with a little ambience in there, and and I'll just play the tunes. You know. Wow. Well, yeah, it's another it's amazing think that we have youtube now too, because, you know, I've spent like the last two days just watching you play with all these different, you know, setups and and there's so much on there with this Zapp it plays APP but it's it's really, really cool. Yeah, that original that of the DVD that we did. We did a DVD for from the first tour, which was shot in Portland and Seattle and and I'm so happy that that that exists. You know, some a lot of that stuff is on Youtube, obviously, but really well shot stuff and I'm glad that that was documented because there was so much work that went into that original tour, you know, with Terry and Steve V and all that. And so I'm so glad. And you know, we want a grammy for one song, which is which is which is crazy. I would have never expected that at all. In fact, I didn't think that that was going to happen at all. I didn't go. You know, how I was completely working at the Zappa House the night that the grammars happened and they all went, you know, everybody went, the entire band went, except me. I didn't go. And and when I went at the time, you know working at the House that the house was located in Little Canyon Right which is now lady Gott's house. Oh Wow, yeah, I did hear that actually. Yes, yes, so I would work up there and and it was like I didn't get really get that good as sellars cell phone response, you know, up there. No, when it was like thirty eight o'clock or something like that, I was calling it a night and I was getting ready the drunk driving down the hill from Loll Canyon, all of a sudden, you know what, as soon as my cell phone got with cell phone plus, it's just completely blew up like da Ding, Ding Ding. I was like, Holy Shit, my phones going crazy, and then I thought, Oh my God, we must have won. Holy Shit, we won. You know, that's so cool. Yeah, that's a great story, would you say? We were working at the house. So you you aren't. You're the the vaultmeister. Yes, explain to me exactly what that is. So I'm in charge of basically digitizing and documenting the contents of the vault, accumulating data and helping to produce future projects for the trust, and I've been doing it now for, you know, a long, long time, since nineteen ninety five is when I was one thousand nine hundred and ninety five is when I started doing it and then probably around ninety seven is when I started getting involved in in like helping out with material for releases, and then I started working side by side with Gail and we were kind of like a joint production team and we were doing releases through mail order. And then, you know, you know, back and forth with different record companies, and then everything came together in two thousand and twelve, which was pretty amazing. Universal became the main record company that all the frank's catalog is being distributed through and we've had a really wonderful relationship with them ever since. Since the entire catalog, the entire hundred and twenty some records, can all be found through universal, on spotify, on your favorite streaming it's wonderful because for the longest time fans, the fans know that the history of the catalog is it was kind of like divided amongst different companies from a long time and the catalog was kind of like spread it spread out and some of it was out of Prand some of it was in Prand it was kind of a mishmash of contracts throughout all the years and by the time two thousand and twelve came everything kind of got put in one big basket and we finally made it all like available through one thing, and it was a dream come true. We got to remaster the lot of the catalog and make it sound amazing and kind of like, you know, start from scratch and represent it to the people, and it was just for me. It was dream come true. is so wonderful to be able to have that opportunity and make that catalog shine. And now here we are, like, you know, almost ten years later and it's thriving. You know, we've done so many, so many releases,... so, but the vault my star. I mean, you know, you have to like you have to know how to handle tape, you have to know the different kinds of tape. You have to not ruin it, because there's a lot of tape that just won't play. You know, a lot of these formats just haven't lasted over time due to the elements. So you really have to know how to handle you have to know how to run the machines and, you know, do transfers and run a database and back everything up multiple times make sure you don't lose all your work and all. So you have to migrate files to the modern stuff to you know, like you know, like things that were on dea eighty eight and at adapt and all that stuff. If you were in that world, you have to be able to transfer that Shit and get that into wave, you know, wave files and hard drives and things that are from of the now. Right. So, with frank he was doing you know, amalan tape, film video tape, like one inch and two inch quad videotape, and then he was doing a lot of floppy disc stuff and you know, in the early days of digital, all floppies, which is hilarious. And so, yeah, it's my job to make sure that that stuff lives on for the ages and then well, and while I'm doing that, archiving away, I'm I'm, you know, now joint joint producer with Amt Zappa, who is in I'm an Indev are in charge of the ZEPPA trust currently, and so we as a team, work with as presenting these latest releases, the things that have been coming out now, because Gail has passed, you know, and so she's not here. And so so that's where we're at these days and it's been going great. Wow. And how did that come about? Did you apply in La weekly know. So it being the drummer right for Alma and Doiezel, I was at the house a lot, just kind of recording there and just, you know, being at the House and frank, after frank had passed, there was a crew of people that he left behind, you know, a car technician and engineer, a secretary, a bunch of a bunch of people, and so obviously I was, you know, around them and one day I just kind of couldn't help it any longer. I was like, please take me down on the vault. I would I just would love to see the vault. I mean anybody that's a super fan, that's like, you know, going to the freaking candy store, you know exactly. So so they they brought me down there and I was like just kind of like looking around with my eyes wide open, in my jaw hitting the floor, going, Holy Shit, look at all of this stuff, and like I just I was like, I was like, Oh my God, you know what this is and you know what this is like. Just reading the sides of the spines of the tape boxes. I was like, Oh my God, Oh, I got and so they went back and told gale. They said, Hey, dwizel's drummer knows a lot about what's in the vault, and so she goes, great, he's the Vaultmeister, ha ha, ha ha. And the next thing I knew, literally the next thing I knew, I was, you know, I had a key to the vault and I was standing in the vault by myself with a pad of paper and a pen. I had no computer skills whatsoever. Well, very minimal, very minimal experience with tape, very minimal. And it was on the job training. Man. I went for it, you know, I had I had the luxury of knowing a lot of the history of music, right, so I instantly started, like, you know, learning how to run a database, learning how to run a computer, learning how to run tape machines, learning how to not fuck up tapes. where I learned from the best, you know, I just yeah, so it was. It was quite an unbelievable experience, you know, to think back on it now, but yeah, that's how that's how it happened. Wow, and you when you say vaults. So was it stored in in the proper way, even like as it's yet basement or is, like it was a it was a underground vault that was built underneath the house and it was climate controlled and concrete and unfortunately it did have a little bit of leaks here and there. So when it rained it was a total nightmare. But but for the most part that stuff was was kept under lock and key in a good, decent, climate controlled area. So he knew that he needed to protect all the stuff and he had kind of set up. Here's what's interesting about that is he was one of the first artists in in music history to obtain the rights to all of his original master tapes. So like in early S, like probably eighty or eighty one, he won our lawsuit that got all the original tapes from MGM VERB in the S and all the Warner Brothers tapes and all that stuff. He was able to get all acquire all that stuff, and I think bowie might have been one of the second people to do that or whatever,... to a you know, they all made deals with right good disc and started reissuing all this thing, you know, all that stuff on those early days in the in the s. But but yeah, so, so, like all those master tapes ended up being in his possession and so he just started, you know, he didn't really spend too much time doing a lot of vault work because he was really kind of interested in doing new music, but he knew that there was a an audience for those old, old recordings and so he kind of, you know, devoted some time to doing volt stuff, some some time to doing interviews sometime, to doing television sometime, to doing screenplays and his own new music. I mean it was just non stop, non stop, incredible. The work ethic was. He wasn't a drinker of like, was he one of those clean and sober dudes that just worked all the time? Totally. I mean he was. He would have like a Margarita or a little some red wine, you know, socially or whatever, but no, he wasn't interested in getting fucked up. You know, for him it was about cigarettes and double Espressos, right. That was food, food and water, double EST Presso the cigarettes. Ha Ha ha, wow, that's awesome. Yeah, so it's it's quite a responsibility that that was bestowed upon you. It really is. And it's funny because, like you know, when you're in it, you you know that you've got a job to do and and you're just kind of grinding away and stuff but when when I when I do reflect, when I do look back on the amount of stuff I've been involved with and the opportunities, and it's just like it's it really is a mindblower, like it's just, yeah, we're super, super, super incredible to think about the the gifts, you know, to be able to have this opportunity to just be involved in such an amazing legacy, you know. Yeah, and so you probably digitized that very first song that you heard as that little kid. That's right. That's pretty insane. That's that's right. Yeah, when we got when we remastered the catalog for two thousand and twelve, it was so crazy that just go to the original tapes and retransfer them all, you know, one by one, each record. It was, it was so great, amazing. Yeah, you know, it's amazing. Eric is, like, you know frank, with such a master at razor weight editing right, and and with pro tools. You know what it's like to do editing and proachols, obviously you know, and that's that's like so convenient, so the way to go. But you know, cutting tape wasn't art right and he was such a master at it. And when you put the original masters of some of these records up and you let them play and you see the the tape, the tape edits going by you're just like Holy Shit, like the amount of time, the amount of time spent on just sitting there. And you know, because like literally like bars of music, music being cut together. It's just it's really insane, man. It's unbelievable. And he did he did it himself. Yeah, wow, I guess it's sort of the modern day, or modern day then, now it's now, it's even obsolete now, but at that point, the modern day equivalent of Beethoven sitting at a piano with a with a pencil, you know, scarring out every little detail of the thing. Yeah, there with a razorblade and tape. And Yeah, well, first he did that. First he sat and wrote the Little Golf on paper, right and then and then it became yeah, the razor blade was an instrument. Yeah, wow, that's crazy and a lot start, a lost start nowadays. Yeah, these kids today, man, they just have no clue. So there are a lot of us out of work right now waiting to get back to play and shows and touring, and I know I've had to do whatever I can do to take my mind off the situation from time to time, and one of the ways to pass the time is to catch up on some books you've missed. But if you're like me and you don't love to read, there's another way you can consume audiblecom has thousands of titles to choose from, including audio books about music production, songwriting, the music business, music theory, instructional audio books and biographies of Your Favorite Musical Heroes. But besides audio books, you can also listen to podcasts, theatrical performances, a list comedy and exclusive audio originals you won't find anywhere else. Right now, you can get a free thirty day trial if you visit audible trialcom dive Bar rock star. That's audible trialcom dive bar rock star, and you can catch up on your audio reading. I'd like to take a second to thank you for listening to the dive, Bar Rockstar podcast. As a new podcast, getting the word out as a vital part of what it takes to keep the show on the road, or off the road, as the current case.

Maybe if you would like to support the podcast, all you got to do is subscribe wherever you listen and if you have an extra minute or two. Please leave a review. You can also share and follow the podcast on your social media APPS. Okay, enough begging. I hope you're having fun and once again, thank you for listening. So I wanted to kind of get to the band that I'm I'm very impressed that you played with, because I'm a huge fan. I only saw them once in the s and you were the drummer. Oh really, and and that is Duran. Duran. Yeah, how did that get come up? Okay, so the first GIG that I ever played with Wiseel Lamit, with Z was in May or June or something like that, of one nine hundred ninety three, at a club in La called club lingerie. Right, I did so on the Internet. Actually, I think I watched that today. That's right, that's right. There is. There is some stuff on there from that's right. That's right. Yeah, so that was an epic night for me because that was like my first professional Gig, you know, first fucking outing with the band. I'm twenty three years old, I'm fresh and pound I'm just like I'm ready, you know, and in the audience was like celebrity after celebrity. It was completely packed. Weird I Yankeovic was there, Chris Robinson from the Black Crows was there. You know, a lot of the ZAPPA families friends were there and frank was there, which is being so insane, and Warren Coucaroulo was there and sat with frank and gale at the table rest, you know, up there in the balcony and you know, frank was like Wow, that drummer and Warren was like yeah, that drummer. So Lauren asked me if I'd be interested in coming to London and do his solo stuff because Duran was in a hiatus because they used to wait so long for Simon to come up with lyrics for the new stuff. They would just be in a holding pattern and Warren used to get really frustrated. So he was like I want to play, you know, like I want to play, I want to do my stuff. So so I used to go in like one thousand nine hundred and ninety five, in one thousand nine hundred, ninety like the yeah, I like ninety five and ninety six around there. I used to go to London and play these solo gigs with with a trio. It was nick bags, you know, Nick Bags, I don't know. Him. Dick begs plays with Steven Wilson now, but he was in Kaja. Google. Oh, because base base player. Yeah, cause you do. Yeah. So so nick, it was me, Nick and Warren and we were doing like, you know, trio gigs in London, Wow, and so so that's kind of how it started. And then, you know West Way Miller. Yes, okay, I never actually met him, but I saw Himla at Berkeley. I was at Berkeley with him. And, okay, you know about him, right, yes, Absol I told Warren I said, well, listen, if you ever decide that you want to do some gigs in the states, you know, in La or whatever, I said, I've got the Bass player for you, so you don't have to bring nick over, you know, and spend the money. I said, I've got someone here. So I introduced him to West. So it was West and I and Warren playing gigs together. Okay, doing it, doing his music. And then John Taylor bailed on Duran, Duran in one thousand nine hundred and ninety six or ninety seven. Okay. So so west got the call right. So West now is in Duran, Duran, wow, and I was like, Oh my God, that's so great, you know, I'm so happy for you, man. You know, and they toured, you know, four hundred and ninety seven and maybe a little bit of ninety eight or whatever, and then in ninety nine they had a kind of a tour scheduled and their drummer got into a scheduling conflict with Jeff Beck because he was playing with Jeff Beck. And so I wake up one day and there's a message on my machine and it's Warren saying, Joe, the time has come, man, you need give me a call. And then right after that was west going. Joe. Holy Shit, man, you're not going to believe this. The warden just called me, you know, and I was like, Oh my God, it's happening, like like I knew it, I knew what was going on, you know, right. So the next thing I knew, man, I you know, I I had a ticket to go to London. I went and I learned all the material and we played and it was totally cool. And so I ended up being I ended up doing that Gig from one thousand nine, hundred and ninety nine to two thousand and one. And in two thousand and one that was when dream decided to do a reunion with the original cats, right. So, Warren West and myself, we're out of an out of a job at that point. But that was cold. You know, it was an amazing, amazing experience.

Two years of two years of that, you know. Yeah, and and so that's how it that's how it came that's how it came together. And were you a fan before that or is it just just a GIG? You know, I wasn't a super fan during the S, Hmm, but when Warren joined, yeah, I started, you know, like kind of like I started listening a little more because, like, you know, come on, let's face it, come on, done and ordinary world and notorious and and you know that kind of stuff. Those are those are really good songs. Yeah, and he was responsible for he was a big deal. He was a big part of the kind of comeback of Duran, Duran during that time, like the wedding album, you know, and I yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, so their material, like I really liked the thank you record, which was the cover record. You know, I'm I was liking everything that was happening. So I was definitely more interested in that stuff. But I'll problem learning the eighty stuff. I mean it was fun, like, you know, learning girls on film and Planet Earth and yeah, all that stuff. It was all super, Super Fun Music to play. So it wasn't like it was a bum out at all. It was just great. You know. Yeah, I'm and you know, as a fan of Duranduran. It was cool when they all reunited and everything. But I always think about Warren to because he was such a big part of the band for a long time. Like he's in that banvered a decade or a decade right. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, and they wrote some great music together. Yeah, Warren is a he's a just a he's an insanely talented person, you know. So so there their time. They produced some great music during his time and where they still you know, their legendary for parties and women. and was it still crazy by the time you got in the band? It was still crazy. It was fun. Yeah, I mean it was all. It was all, you know, respectful and everything, you know, but it was, but it was yeah, I was. It was insane. I got to live out my rock and roll fantasies, you know, being in that bag. You know, I was some mean I had hair at that time and I was I was thinner and I was in good shape and I was dressing up and glamming it up, you know, because I grew up. I grew up with Alice Cooper and t rex and sweet and all those Glam you know, I was a Glam rocker out of you know, that was like and I love Marilyn Manson and I love nine inch nails and I love stuff like that. Right, rock fantasy stuff is like, you know, the Good Shit. That's that's that's the stuff I used to really, really love. And so wow, you know, next thing I know, like wow, I can actually get leather pants and I can wear a turquoise fish nets top and a feather boa and I'll be okay. In this band, you almost have to to keep the GIG. It was so fun. Like I remember, you know, West and I sitting during rehearsals when there would be a little bit of off time, you know, like we play for a couple hours and then we get some food and chill out right, and when we would be chilling they'd be doing business in the other room or whatever, you know, like phone calls and whatever they'd be doing, and West and I would be in the in the green room painting our nails. It was so great. So yeah, I mean I met some really, really great people. You know, they had they had a pretty strong fan base and touring, touring during that time. I made some made some friends. It was really fun. That's cool. Yeah, and how is Nick Rhodes as a keyboard player? He's good. Is He's minimalistic, but but effective and Classy, you know, and Debonair and and he was my favorite. He was my favorite, you know. Yeah, like I like talking with him at we had a lot musically in common, even though I was kind of like a I don't know, maybe ten years younger than him, or more probably, but I grew up on a lot of the same stuff that he like, the stuff that he was listening to when he was, you know, a young teenager and stuff like if he was sixteen. You know, I don't actually really know exactly how old he is, but I'm going to assume that like when he was sixteen and listening to Bowie, I was six or seven listening to Bowie because of my uncle being ten years older than me and exposing me to all this great shit. So all the stuff that that he was into that turned him into the musician that he is. I was also listening to add an awkwardly young age, right. So, so we had that in common and I think that that was like it kind of bonded us a little bit. It was it was cool, like, you know, he liked a lot of the same shit that I did. So it was it was great that we have that in common. Now, Simon and I, on the other hand, was it's a it's a different story. Ha, yeah, different story, you know. But but you know, in the end, Simon was very complimentary about my drumming, which and a lot to me, and so that,... know, I came, I came out of that whole experience feeling like, I know that I did a really good job and that they were really happy and that that's ultimately, that's ultimately, you know, that makes me feel good about it, about all of it, and I got to have a blast. I had a blast after, you know, and it happened at a time in my life where it was like it was perfect, because I was like thirty one or thirty two years old and I could still play the part of being a rock star if I wanted to, you know, as and but but yet I hadn't had I had never played to like like shows to that extent of like screaming people, Right. I can remember walking out on stage and the screams were so loud that like my fucking ears would bottom out, like it was so loud it hurt. HMM, Holy Shit, this is what that that's what this sounds like, right, ha ha, ha, ha ha. And you probably were not in ears at that point. I was. I was Oh, got you, yeah, but I would have them. Oh you have to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah, tracks and stuff. Every song on that gag, except for maybe one or two, was with a click, right. So, and that was it was cool with me. I didn't mind it. Yeah, right. Well, that's kind of why I asked about nick rods because back in the day I remember Roger with the big headphones, you know. So they were one of the first bands that are are using a click all the time, and because Nick rose actually had a computer, like a like a you know crt monitor on the stage, you know, early on, and I'm always wondering, like how much is he playing and how much is it you know, and it's I'm sure it's all his craft work. You know, did well, that's a funny phrase, but heuter music, but anyway, or you know, how much is he playing and how much is the computer playing? And so obviously they would have to be in ears or some kind of headphones. It was happening, how honestly, like there was a lot of tracks, it was a lot of background vocals and a lot of keyboard parts and pads, but he was also, you know, playing live with it. Yeah, I remember you had this really cool thing that he would put his hand in front of and it wouldn't you know. Yes, I remember that. Yeah, so he was doing that kind of Shit and just like looking amazing, you know, like and taking his finger and going and then you know that's not wouldn't happen and he'd still be looking amazing and he has finger up to his ear. He's listening intently and it there's the next sound perfect, right. Yeah, yeah, so cool. And so, you know, an a great band. Oh, just I literally loved how the parts all intertwined and like, no matter whether he's playing or not, like, even if it's a simple part, it's like they all were. It's will produced stuff. You know, they really are a interesting band in the in the way that their parts all work, you know, but well as a bass player. I mean you have to admire those lines and those are leads about it. I think he's most the most underrated Bass player in rock history, honestly, like really try to play that stuff. So I think to listen to it and if you think it's cheesy pop music to find, you can think that it. It'll come across like that, but try to play Rio. Yeah, Wes, you know that bassline is no joke. It is that easy, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, but West nailed it the night that I saw you see, he was really great Bass player and you know, you know him from Berkeley, right. Yeah, we met at Berkeley in one thousand nine hundred and ninety and I played with them and I was like Holy Shit. I started introducing him to everybody, you know, like this kid is fucking amazing. He had like a yellow factor bass over those. Yeah, yeah, had a yellow one of those, I think, or black when I can remember Adam and and you know, I mean like you know, all you had to do is listen to him and you knew that he was talented, you know. Yeah, so, and I moved out to Los Angeles in one thousand nine hundred and ninety two and it wasn't very long that he followed. Yeah, so, yeah, I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure I came out first. But yeah, he didn't have to worry. All people had to do was listen to him play and he would get gigs. You know, he was just so good. It's so, so sad that he had that he left us at such an early age. Yeah, it was a real super loss of talent and a super, super sweet guy. Yeah, I missed West. Yeah, yeah, I bet so. That's the way of cancer, right. Yeah, it was like thyroid stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I saw him play bunch of time because I was actually there Berkeley, but I one time I specifically remember was the first time I saw you play, actually, because it was Brian Beller's, another bass player in Burger, his senior recital. Yeah, I remember them out. You would come back, you would graduated, but came back to play that and as in the room and and he and West did a bass duet during that.

You know. Yes, it's really, really cool and that he did. They did a better mouse trap by John John, kind of Tucci. That was one of the yeah, yeah, yeah, great, great times. Yeah, I remember coming back. Brian had miles, you know, on his honest airline account. They flew me back and it was so it was so nice to come back and play that show and be around everybody again. You know. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, Berkeley, it's cool. Did you have a good time there? I loved Berkeley. I loved it, you know, I I had had an amazing time there. I was I was super, super busy, though, like I had a gate. I was working at tower records the entire entire time that I was there. I had a job, so I was working guitar records and I had a girlfriend and I was going to school. So it was just like nonstop. It was really I mean, being that young, you can have you can have that kind of lifestyle and be cool with it. It was literally every day, like non nonstop, but it was fun. He's mentioned it before, but it was a great time to be at Berkeley. I I think you know Berkeley was. Now it's massive. It's this big, huge they've taken over all of Back Bay and it's really expensive. I mean it was really expensive then, but kind of not like it is now. And I don't know, Boston was a cool place and and I really had a good time wasn't there as long as you, but I had a really great time there too. That's let's talk about that for a second. Okay, okay. So, so, yes, Boston is an amazing town. I Love Boston. I enjoyed my time there so much. But I did when I was on tour with was either sapple plays APP or Joe Saph Triani, I can't remember which one it was, but I went back to the to that area back bay. You know that that street mass ab and Newbury and that that whole area there right right and I went I went back there one afternoon just to like have lunch and to walk around and see what was going on around there, because I hadn't been there in so long and it was Super Sad. It was super disappointing and because, I mean, when I was there it was like musician heaven, because you had like three different music stores. You had like Daddy's junk music and Jack strum shop and Manny's, Manny's are right and all this stuff, and then you had record shops. You had looney tunes, which was a cool record shop, and then he had tower records on the corner there, which was huge, and then you had newbery comics down the streets. You have like three cool record shops to go to. Yeah, and there was like, you know, like cool places to eat, to pizza shops and like whatever. Yes, yes, and and so like there was like there was like so much to do if you were a musician, like there was so much energy there and all of that is gone. Like all of that is gone. You know, Jack strum shop is gone, man, he's you know, all the music stores are gone. Tower records is gone. Yeah, newberry comics is still there. Looney tunes, I don't think, is there. Most of the restaurants are now like chain, like like there's a McDonald's and there's still, I think, the pizza shop at everything else got bought out by the school and it's like, you know, how many places do you need in order to buy books, right, or sweatshirts that's Ay Berkeley on it. It's like it's like, Oh my God, and you know, New York City has turned that way to like I remember going to New York City in the s and there was great, great places to go check out if you're a musician, just like there were tons of places to play if you're a musician. You know, cool classic bars, but then, like, you know, if you went down to Saint St Mark's place, there was like Trau in Baudville and all these great cool stores for clothes and and record shops and all that stuff. And now and video stores and media and all that Shit. And now all that Shit's gone and everything, you know, all the venues are bought up, you know, like all the classic venues are gone, all the record stores are gone, everything's gone. It's like how how many starbucks do we need? You know, it's like yeah, yeah's true. Well, I I wonder how much this covid thing is going to change everything and this massive break right now of us, like everything being put on hold, everybody taking a step back from this crazy materialistic sort of life that we've we've grown accustomed to. And now you're having to deal with some pretty heavy stuff, with this virus and everything. I don't know, I wonder if that's going to shake some soul back into some people. I don't know. I hold I hope that, you know, the people are realizing how much they miss music, live music, you know, and like going out and seeing bands play and concerts and all that stuff, like, you know, out of our culture and I'm hoping that people aren't be like hey, we've been without it this long, we don't fucking need that Shit. It's like, come on, you know, yeah, yeah, well, I think it's going to be just the opposite. I think people are just chapping at the bit... get back into it, you know what I mean, like every time we even open up a little bit, it's like people love to the clubs, you know, people are just anxious to get out and these the he's a drive in theater shows that have been happening. They're selling out and people are really missing it. And you know, we're guys who tour still, and I've been for the last three years touring hardcore like a hundred and s five shows a year, and that's so great that you yeah, and there's, you know, plenty of people doing it and people are still selling out shows. You know what I mean? It's like it's might not be as big as it used to be, but people's there is still fandom out there somewhere, you know. Yeah, and now that they can't do it, they're going to be you know, there's it's going to be off the chain. Whence this thing opens up again, I think. I hope I did. I do too, for sure. Yeah, yeah, so crazy. Well, well, anyways, back to you. How do we get back? My God. Well, I wanted to also kind of connect like Warren cukaruloh missing persons. Yeah, ZAPPA. It's all sort of Zappera related. Still, that's right. It's the dreaded end ZAPPA continuum. It's so true. Yeah, frank is like, you know, there's a thread and so much that leads back to him, you know, and how much he touched, so much and so yeah, that you can't escape it. It's so true. All these greeting all those great musicians that came through his band that went on to have their own careers, you know. And and so the tree has so many branches and when you look at it, when you look at how many, you know, wonderful, wonderful things that is spawned through the three decades of frank being around, it's it's super impressive. And you know, another thing that's really amazing is how well respected and revered frank is and all. You know, another thing too. I will say that about Duran. Duran, yeah, I remember Eric when I was on the road with those guys and we would be playing like, you know, like some shows with other bands on it, like I remember we were doing some festivals or something, and then we would be doing some special engagement and there would be some bands of the now that would be on the on the bill with us, like org remember them and all that stuff. Like they'd be all these bands that were like, you know, the the you know, of the now, and they would be on the bill with us. And then, like I remember, just like they all just wanted to come and say hello and meet them and pay their respects and just be like, you guys were like so, you know, and I used to just sit in the back and, you know, have a glass of wine and just watch all that kind of stuff. And they were, and you know, Simon and nick were always very, very sweet to those people, you know, all the bands, all the different bands that wanted to come and meet them, and I just remembered being like yeah, you know, these these guys are like, you know, they're well respected. They're well revered, like you know. There you know, it's true and I'm sure, I'm sure it's still to this day. Yeah, well, I think that the war in years helped to just solidify that because they kept going. They weren't just this passing thing thanks to him coming in and them having hit songs, you know, and it's just this whole, like you said, this whole other part of their catalog that makes them a much rounder package, you know what I mean? And I'm seeing the show and being so relieved that they did everything, that you guys did everything too. was like there was girls on film and Rio and, you know, new moon on Monday and like, well, all those records that you mentioned before, but it was all in there and you and you really hear a pretty amazing book, you know what I mean? It's a pretty incredible catalog. Yeah, you know, definitely. Yeah, that was quite an experience, man. I was so again, that's like one of those things where I look back and I just I'm so grateful and blessed that I have that opportunity to to do that, you know, to be a part of an organization that was successful. Yeah, deathful, and I'll look kind of like a legendary band, you know. Yeah, absolutely, it's really it was really cool. I did a short tour with ABC from the yeah, Martin Fry, and we were on a thing, just a big s you know, show. So there was, in fact, the GIG, the one of the last Games we plays was in Vegas at the at the Mandelet Bay. Oh Yeah, and at the bit, you know, the stage out in them, out in the out in the swimming cool stuff anyway, and it was a there was probably twenty acts on the show. It started at like two in the afternoon and we went on at ten. You know what I mean? Yeah, across the street and in the big concert stage was Duran Duran. Oh, just Duran Duran, you know what I mean. So that, I think, is what that's when you can really tell. Here, here's a bunch of other s bands all fitting on the same bill. Duran Duran is selling out tenzero seats,... know, by them. So because they're they've just reached that kind of status, you know, totally. You remember the album how to be a millionaire by ABC? Yeah, yeah, we played that song. Actually, I love that. I love that right. Yeah, Oh man, dude, that was probably that. That tour was three weeks long because he, you know, is Martin Fry, and his Guitar Player, Matt Backer, came from England and then Matt Roady and guy from Tonic Pete Maloney on drums really, really great. But then how did they have a SAX player about time? Well, actually was it was a gym play. Yeah, yeah, Duke Miller came and yeah, he was amazing. Is it was a anyways, it was dream Gig for me. I like of all the gigs that I've done. You know that three weeks of time and we were were in suits and it was just like Ah, the nerve, shoot that poison arrow. I mean, yeah, we just did all the songs, you know, and because we were the sort of the headliner most of the time, so because Martin had like five hits, you know with you know when smoky sings and the Look of Love, Love, Oh hell yeah. So we actually did a little set and then sometimes we would do like an hour set at certain venues, you know, but when it was the big long show, everyone would come out and play their one hit, you know, and sometimes it was to traction whatever. Then we get to the US and it was like, you know, we hit, we'd have five or six songs on a long show and it's so anyways, it was just it was such a blast. So I'm such a s pop nerd, so to have that and then my wife saw me play with them and she's like, Oh, I understand you so much better now just watching me up there. I like now I'm in my element. Put Me, put me in a suit, you know, playing this music unbelievable, so fun. There was a time there in the late s and early s where I started playing like a lot with these bands, like it just kind of happened, like I was in I did a Gig with Berlin, just one, and then I did the motels. Oh Man, that's right, and I saw that on your resume somewhere. That's cool, cool. I like Martha. She's great and of course I know I filled in for Terry on the missing person's thing, so that was kind of hilarious. So all of a sudden, like all these things were like popping up, all these s were a lot of s work that back, man. Yeah, I'm happy about it. It's like I'd rather go do that. You know, there's just a different feeling when you're even if you're playing like a modern the big if you were on Lady Gaga, for instance right now, or whoever the biggest, Rihanna or whatever, it wouldn't feel the same as playing that music that you grow up with, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's a different thing. It's a little more fun in a way. Yeah, got that whole nostalgia thing and it was part of you, you know. So it's like more fun to play that music because it's like you just love it and this is like why I play music, you know what I mean? Yes, and if you're, you know, lucky enough to be able to play music like that for a living, then it's like, at that point it's like Iven work. It's just like, Oh my God, you're just having fun and that's that's a great that's a great time right there. Yeah, that's what it's like for me to play Franks music because I just love the music so much. It's just like it's fun even work. It's like I just I'm I'm literally playing stuff that I love. So it's great. To tell you the truth, like I was saying to I've I've never been a ZAPPA fan. So for the last two days of because I want to be prepared, I tend to do my research on these things, you know, so few days I've just been watching and learning and reading and and there's so many things, like I started reading about you know Warren and and reading about Terry Bozzio, who I knew a lot about, because you can't go to Berkeley without knowing about Terry Bozzio. You know, just an education about ZAPPA and just being reminded and then learning a lot more is is so cool and and it's I don't know, it's just really cool that your dream artist you've been able to be so involved with. Like, congratulation. Thank you man it. I know it's it's like it's like fate almost just kind of just like sitting there. You know, I really truly believe that, like if you're if you know, if you're not an asshole and if you really do have the the talent or the goods to to set your set a goal and try to achieve that goal right, I think that anything's possible, you know, I really do. I think that, you know, you can really you can really accomplish some things if you if you just, you know, are together and and people, People's going to call you know, people are going to call you back if they if they like you and if they and if they also like the don't what you have to offer musically to you know, it's just like it can just happen, you know. Yeah, I was just really fortunate and Lucky and grateful and blessed and all that stuff, and I'm just so glad that I've been able to keep keep a keep making a living.

Yeah, yeah, so that's a steady gig. Then it's like a yeah, it's like a salaried position or something. Yeah, yeah, really great. Yeah, well, there's a lot to be done. You know, there's a lot to be done. We're working on so much. You know that the for like the last five years there's been a documentary and the works on Frank Zappa and it's finally coming out. It'll be available on November, on Thanksgiving, or, as we're saying, frank's giving. Nice, but it's yeah, it's finally going to be available to stream. But it has been playing at some various you know, you had mentioned some of the drive in theaters and stuff, and so has. There has been some festivals. That has happened over the past couple months. that it that it's been playing out. But it's sad because obviously with covid everything like, it didn't get the true chance to do the theater runs, which is sucks. But but finally it is is coming out. So, you know, we're excited about that. And then we had a soundtrack that we put together that we've been working on, and so it's been it's been a lot of work, but it's finally actually going to be happening. So that's exciting that. If you get a chance, you should check the movie out. It's really well done. It's it's just a little over two hours. You know, you could do seven hours on the guide. It wouldn't be an house but yeah, but it's but it's a nice it's a nice chunk of well done documentary. So if you get a chance, you know you. Oh, no, I'm I'm a documentary junkie, so I will be watched by me cold excellent, especially now that I've been primed by all this research. Yeah, no, I think you'll love it. Let me know if you get a chance to see it. You know, just okay, draw me a text and be like, dude, I chack, I saw it. You know whatever. Yeah, absolutely, still. So give me one good like diva Simon The bond story. You brought it up that he wasn't so good doing. Oh my God, I remember. I rember like after gates and stuff. Like if we had any like backstage parties or like, you know, like I remember just having such a great time at the House of Blues and Chicago because there was the baby room connected to, you know, to the to the venue, which was part of the building of part of the House of Blues, so that every being all the backstage people's and, you know, people from the audience that were lucky enough to get in there. And then everybody was back there and I'd be like, you know, I connect with a girl and I'd be talking to her and stuff and like I'd literally be just like in the middle of saying hello, you know, or you know whatever, and you know, I'm like we're Ey'd. I were right in front of each other and Simon would come and walk right in front of me and go, he know, I'm Simon, and I just remember like looking like this, passed his shoulder, looking at her, going you believe that Shit, like I mean, oh my God, yeah, that you blocker full on. So on, wow, whoa. Okay, so it's like that. Yeah, let me come on, dude, your Simon the bond. Go for go, you can go have anything. Yeah, do you mind if I just have like maybe one wow, oh man. Well, this is been awesome talking to you. Man. Oh Oh, I remember that I met you the first time I actually played with you. We we're playing at the brass elephant. Yeah, we know, God, yeah, with body Williams, another fellows passed away, but I remember. I've told the story on a different episode actually, but I remember the first time I played with you. You the whole first set where it's the first set, not many people in the club and you know, you're playing everything just pretty much pocket stuff and a decent volume, and I was like that's cool, but like where's this Jew traverse that I great so much about, you know? And then like the last song, I don't even remember what it was, but you just opened up and like just, you know, blew some chops and I was like, Oh, there he is, like oh it's like that, like this dude is Badass and you're just absolutely amazing drummer and boys had a great time playing with you. Are You well, I guess we're. No one's playing anywhere, but you're still doing the Ponchos Gig. If the clubs were opening up at the time that everything kind of grinded to a halt. I was I was doing Tuesday nights at the whiskey go go with the ultimate dam night from the house drummer for that, right. And then I'm I was the first call for the punchos on Fridays and Saturdays with Eric Dover and Jim Wheeler and Coco Powell. and time as Walter Email, depending on schedules right, who I'm interviewing on Thursday. He'll be on not that next week. I love Walter, such a sweetheart and another talented..., another another amazing musician. And so that was like the to the two steadies. And and then, you know, we had a tour. The ZEPPA band was supposed to be opening up for King Crimson in the summertime and that completely got postponed and still don't know whether or not or when that's going to be rescheduled, you know, right, we hopefully it will be, but you know, you just just don't have any idea. So, yeah, we're in a holding pattern. But yeah, it was weird because I was so used to like, you know, grinding away on the day job and then at night, you know, going and gigging and and stuff like that, and then now it's like almost all of a sudden I've got all this extra time, like I don't have any extra money, but I've got all this extra time. Yeah, I know, it's crazy. First, at first I was really love it because, like I said, I was touring really hardcore. So first, for the first even two months, I was like, Oh, this break is awesome. But man, like maybe six weeks ago I just hit a wall of like I gotta, I gotta get out and I got to play. I'm it. This is the longest in thirty years that I've gone without playing a GIG. It's really crazy. I hope that, you know, things will will obviously change, and I mean it might not be changing anytime soon, but I do hope that when it does change, that you all, like we said, people will still be a will to appreciate what you know, we have to offer as live musicians and the industry will kind of come back around and and people will want to tour again and, you know, and just and just do music. Yeah, yeah, well, I hope we get to do some music when it all starts up again. And Yeah, really, I was going to say I was really happy that I had the chance to record that record with with, what is it waiting for Monday. Yeah, waiting for Monday. Yeah, yeah, I got so good, man, man's good. And then we get get the whiskey and and yeah, yeah, that was really fun. Yeah, I forgot about that too, but we do all kinds of stuff together. We justly focally that band is really strong. I mean between you and August, yeah, and Rudy. I mean it's just like, Holy Shit, man, you guys are just like who, come on, yeah, that's great. And Walter, all right, yes, yeah, yeah, it's pretty insane. It's cool. Well, hopefully they'll be. They'll be gigs to be had eventually and we'll get it all again, you know. Yeah, well, good luck with all the podcast stuff, and I'm glad you're you know, you're being proactive and came in busy and interacting with your fellow musicians and yeah, you know, good the keeping things happening, you know, just like generating awareness. It's great. Yeah, and showcase in people that I really respect and you know, it's good to the like I say, just keep in touch and be able to talk to people, because it's so isolating, you know, being out out here in pandemic land. Yes, let's I appreciate you wanting to have me on. Well, thanks so much for doing it, man, it was great talking to you. Thank you. Flood to the clubs, not flubbed to the clubs. I don't know, I don't know what I was talking about, man. I hope you got a lot out of that. That was so fun. I loved it. He was talking about demo tapes because it's a subject I kind of forget about because now everything's online and it's a kind of a different world. But I'll try to put my first lost Angeles Demo tape on Youtube so you can hear it, just in case anyone's interested. I haven't heard it in years, so I'm not sure if it will even hold up, but y'all listeners can be the judge of that and let me know. It was always an interesting conversation to have amongst musicians about like what form of Demo they used to use, because some people would insist that you need one and like a cassad or a CD, and others would insist that you don't and you just sit in and have a business card, you know, and there's always a danger of overpromoting yourself, for sure, but it's also always good to have something just in case to put in somebody's hand, like something you can just take with you because you're get in your car and you throw it there and then maybe even week later you're like what is this? Who is this, and and and you come back to it. Obviously now everything's on the web, so it's good to have a business card with contact info and links to, you know, website or youtube or whatever you you use soundcloud. I've also done postcard size stuff, which you know, sticks out a little bit more and depends on the event that you're you're going to like if you go to NAM, that's people have bags there anyways. So something a little bigger is kind of acceptable. And you don't always have to hand them out either, but you should always have them so just in case you need to. So you know you don't want to Overdo it, but it's always good to have in case someone asks. And video right now obviously is super vital. So Joe was way ahead the game and that that's...

...pretty cool. The last few gigs I've gotten they've asked to send links to video as well as audio. So obviously it's you got to have something and if you have any innovative ideas on the subject or something that you do different. You know, feel free to reach out and let me know and maybe we can have this discussion on the show again. What other thing I'll say about it, too, is that it's really grueling and not fun for me anyways. Like it is. The most awful part about getting gigs and stuff is the schmoozing and the meeting people, and I like I like meeting people, but it's I don't like forcing myself on two people and handing them a demo and saying this is who I am and please give me a GIG. It's it's it's excruciating. But one of the things that, when I first got out here, that I would just force myself to do is to just show up because, you know, around eight o'clock and I'm starting to think, Cookay, these are the clubs I need to hit in the people, and I'd be tired and I just wouldn't want to go, but I would just, you know what, just go, even if you don't shake anybody's hand, just sit at the bar because you never know what'll happen and in at least you're going to get a good performance. So anyways, that's my advice that because I know it's grueling and it's awful and I hated it and now I know what it's like from the other side when people come up to me and hand me Demos, and you know that's not super fun either. But at the same time I understand and, you know, be nice. As you know, meeting Nice people is always great and as a Bass Player, if I'm meeting bass players, I need subs, you know. So it's it's grueling and awful and it is for everybody, but it'll usually pay off. According to the Internet, Frank Zappa made sixty two albums before he died and the ZAPPA family trust has released fifty five since his death, thanks largely to Joe Traverse. Danny Saraphin is the original drummer for Chicago Dew eazel. ZAPPA was an MTV VJ for twelve weeks before getting fired for saying some not so nice things about MTV on the Howard Stern show. RAZORBLADE editing is how editing was done before computers and involves the actual cutting and taping back together of real to real tape. It's incredibly tedious and, like Joe said, there's an art to it. Cutting together things in time is challenging and there's like no undo button, so it takes a massive amount of skill and experience to edit with the precision that it would take two you get frank ZAPPA's music right. I can't even imagine. Stems, for those of you that don't know, are submixes of a larger mix that, when played together an equal volume, will exactly recreate the full mix. You might get all the guitars on a stem, or background vocals or strings, etc. Nick Rhodes is fifty eight years old and Frank Zappa's wife's name is Gail and he has four kids, Dweezel, I'm at, Moon Unit and diva, and maybe that will take care of some of the names that we talked about on this episode that you may or may not know. Well. I hope you had a good time. Wow, you've made it to the end. I'm hoping it's because you completely enjoyed yourself and are now filled with knowledge and inspiration to move forward with your dreams. If that is the case, and you would like to stay informed of new episodes, live events in general news, please go to dive Bar rockstarcom and sign up for the mailing list. If you have any questions, comments, corrections or complaints about anything you here on the show, please email me at fan mail at dive Bar Rockstarcom and you may even end up on the show. We at the dive Bar Rockstar podcast with all of our hearts. Thank you for listening and remember it's all about dreams.

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