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The Dive Bar Rock Star Podcast
The Dive Bar Rock Star Podcast

Episode 20 · 1 year ago

Jay Gore- You Do What You Gotta Do (Warren Hill, Mindi Abair, Hillary Duff)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Guitarist and Los Angeles native, Jay Gore, shares his stories of growing up playing on the Sunset Strip and starting out with his original band at 13 years old. He talks about his transition from the pop world to the smooth jazz world and give us some insight into the making of his solo records. Jay also talks about the current state of the L.A. music scene and how he has been passing the time during the pandemic.

www.jaygore.com

www.guitronica.net 

www.divebarrockstar.com

If you are a fan of the dive bar Rockstar podcast and would like to help support the show, there's a great way that you could do that and start a new fashion trend. We have a new merchandise page on the website, which features t shirts and hoodies that are available for sale on Amazon. Just click on merchandise and the top menu and all of the links will be there. or go directly to dive Bar rockstarcom merchandise. Get started early on your Christmas shopping at dive Bar rockstarcom. Welcome to the dive Bar Rockstar podcast, the show exploring the lives of professional musicians of all types, touring musicians, recording artist, songwriters, engineer's bar bands, wedding bands and anyone making their living in the music industry. Whether you've dreamed of being a professional or you already are one, this is the podcast for you. I'm your host, Eric Baines, and I hope that you not only find some entertainment here, but also some helpful tips, trade secrets and ideas that will help you achieve your dreams. So welcome to episode twenty. This is the twenty episode. I can't believe that were that far in. I wasn't sure how long this thing was going to last and here we are on episode twenty, so I I dislike to really give us in see here. Thank you for all the people that are listening and fans of the show and hit me up on facebook and, you know, telling me how much they liked or or disliked the episode. Haven't had many dislikes. I will, I will, I will say that. And also just ask one favor. If you're listening on apple, could you maybe take a second and click a five star rating? That would really help out. Or if you have a little more time to leave a quick review. would be incredible. And if you're listening on spotify, just click follow. That's all I need and really helps out the show and and it really helped to bring the podcast to a wider audience and keep the show going, basically. But I really appreciate everybody listening. It's really been fun and thanks to all the guests that have been on the show. It's just been so cool and I got a long list of awesome guests that that we're going to be interviewing over the next you know, however long I can keep the show going. And then that brings me to today's guests, who is an incredible guitar player, really good friend of mine, and we're just gonna kind of nerd out on this. There's going to be a lot of names thrown at you, so many to where I just don't think I'm going to have the time to tell you who they all are. But thanks to Google, we can, we can all go and check out people and you'll recognize most of them, I'm sure. But you know, I talked before about the language of names. On this show we tend to speak to each other and names US musicians. You know my guests though, has recorded and toured with an incredible list of artists and musicians like Hilary Duffman, the a bear, Michael McDonald, Lauren Hill, sly stone, billy ray, Cyrus, Michael Bolton, Steven Bishop, David Pack, Bobby Caldwell, and the list goes on and on and on. It's it's really long and incredible. He's currently the musical director for Saxophonist Warren Hill and he also has two solo records out. One is called identity, which you can find anywhere and on Itunes, and the other one is called Getronica, which is only available on his website at j gorecom. So please enjoy my conversation with Jay Gore, Star Sport in the SSSEVEN B yes, no, yeah, my podcast, Mike Man Rights, the mic man will not only that, though, I've been singing on it too, and it's phenomenal. Really. I made a mistake. I did a voiceover for a book, for a novel. I read a novel, right, right, right. If you're going to listen to the book on tape, it's about a seven and seven and a quarter hour listen. HMM. But but to Richt Trek, it took me thirteen, fourteen hours, right, yeah, and not obviously in one sitting. I did over the course of like two or three weeks. HMM. Right. And then editing, and here's the mistake that I used a really nice large die friend Condenser, Mike, Uh Huh, right, which was huge mistake because it picks up every breath, every little everything. Yes, and so it was. It was like thirty hours of me going through an editing and and the putting like a put some sort of a gate on it and had to sit the threshold, right, because it's so I'm going to ask him seven be next time for sure. Yeah, didn't we do something years ago, like an original thing? Yeah, well, you know, I was trying to remember. I don't even remember how I met you. I remember doing a Gig a cafe cordia with you and Shane August, right,...

...and then we were at Shane's place and we we were co writing a thing, right. And you know, the thing is, I think back then I was I was super focused and I was a jazz guy and I was a smooth jazz guy and we were kind of doing rock stuff and and I was way behind on you guys were, in fact, I think you are, sort of self titled Studio Nerds, you know, and like into sounds and mics and technique, and I was like I had cake walk on a Shitty Kimona that barely worked at that point, you know, so obvious high and and and so I remember there being one session and then it just sort of never win anywhere after that. But the GIG gotta happened. I've done a million of those subject million of those projects with Shane and and a lot of them never get finished, you know. Some of them have, some of how up and some of them haven't, and that's just the way it is in the big city, you know. Yeah, absolutely, but that was twenty years ago, like I was I just that's twenty years of being here and that was really probably within the first year of me getting that's probably how we met. Probably just met at court y'all one night. Yeah, yeah, yeah, somewhere Fort Y'all or lovely or the or the Spud, something like that. We probably just met, you know, jamming together at some point, because I don't remember the actual moment of meeting you either. Right, yeah, it's weird, but I'm glad we did and thanks for doing this podcast with me. Yeah, man, I'm excited. Thanks for it's a great's great, man, I love it. Dive Bar rock starts. As soon as I as soon as I saw it, I thought back to my s, you know, because that was me and my s. You know, I was yeah, the dive a rock star, my s for sure. You know. So you're actually zooming from Greece. Is that where you I was in I was in grease until a couple days ago. Now I'm in Bucharest. Oh Wow, cool. Yeah, what are you doing out there? Is this music related? It's not. My wife is from here. Okay, and we were able to go to Greece. They have my sister in law and my sister and my wife have a they have a small property there in Athens that they use as an air and B and Rut property. So we went and stayed in their property, so nice, and we waited out that we were there. was supposed to be for two weeks and then became three weeks may because, you was just so perfect the weather. It was just we're in October and it's still ninety degrees during the day and it's you know, so there's no reason to come. So now it was time to come here to a place where they have better Wifi and it's just a more modern and progress than it is in Athens. So now we're here and I'll go home when I need to. You know, right now there's no work. I had tons and tons of tours this year that got canceled, yeah, and postpone, I mean everything, and I haven't been on a stage with another musician since March. Wow. Yeah, I mean you know, well, that's not true, but I've had two gigs just recently. But yeah, it was like six and a half months of nothing. You know, my main thing nowadays is Warren Hill. I'm his MD and cool. He has a daughter named Olivia who's an amazing pop singer, and I'm her MB as well. And there were tons of plans. And you know, Warren's got not only his own solocre but he's got a jazz festival in Camcoon in, a jazz festival in Cobbo, Oh wow, and then he's going to be doing one in the Dominican Republic and I think one in Vegas. So I'm at all those festivals and I'm also the Adam Holly and myself or the mainstage guitar players for Dave Causes Cruis. Oh, got you right. All that stuff just went postpone. You know. Yeah, I locked myself in my studio like everybody else to thank God I have a still have a nice studio like you do at home, and I've just been writing and writing and writing like crazy. See, and recording. That's great. You know, do the odd recording session here and there, the remote stuff, because I got on dialed in, I got all the APP set up and all my guitars and all that, so I can just really easy. got a nice protel's rig and I can easily record, whatever people need done. You know, I did a country thing before I came out here. I did a bunch of Mandolin stuff and that's cool. Got To do what you got to do, right. Yeah, it's funny because I play with Kiko from, you know, maybe once a year. So I play with Keiko. You play with her on the cruises, right? Right, yeah, and I played the Third Hawaii once for Michael Paulo. Had A jazz fessel out there and I was kind of a house guy. He brought me out there to be the House Guy. I think he uses locals out there now to do the House Pam thing. Yeah, I you know, look, I slipped and fell into this, into this smooth jazz genre. Yeah, and it's it's I went straight from Hilary Duff, who at the time was the greatest, biggest pop star in the world. I mean right, the bands that were opening for us. We're bands like Kelly Clarkson and and Maroon five was opening up for us and Jason Moras was opening up for us, Jessica Simpson, I mean just people who are major stars...

...now. We're opening up for us when we were on tour, right, and then I came home and I did some stuff with this actor named Scott Grimes who's an amazing singer and I've been working with him since the early s and off and on and off and on. We put the band back together when he's between mean TV shows and stuff like that. But that went straight to mindy. A bear called me and I knew mindy because of Shane August. Oh Wow, okay, we did a we did a steak just a steak joint gig in the in the mid S in Westwood. Shane and I do it and and and he knew mindy and Minnie would come and play sax with us. Wow, that's how mindy. And then when Mindy got me in there, it was like, you know Andre Barry? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Andre was mindy's Bass player right here rite and he and our keyboard player, Rodney Lee. HMM, yeah, he and he and Rodney were doing lots of they were doing they're digging with everybody in the genre. Right. Yeah, and I said he, you know, after about three or four years with pretty much only playing with mindy, and Mindy had enough work back then. Right, you know that I was it was fine. Just playing with her was fine. It was it was good enough work and and I enjoyed it because Mindy's are very she's very benevolent boss, you know she's she's very much like I need you to learn these songs and then completely play them the way you want to play them. Oh, wow, that's green. No, make make them, Jay Gore. You know what I mean. HMM. Yeah, and I know. So there'd be acoustic guitar stuff. I'd be like, I'm going to play this song on Electric Guitar because it'll rock more cool, you know. She's like, you know, yeah, that's cool. Say, did you know playing with Kiko? You know, it's not like that. It's not like that. Yeah, I said to under you know, how are you getting all these gigs with all these other artists, you know? And he said, I said, how do I get them to know me? And he just looks at me and granny goes, don't worry, man, they're going to all know you. Everybody's going to know you. Trust me, they're gonna know you. Just just wait it out. So about a year later we're playing a big show with a Dave cause, Bony James and Kenny logins and it's at the Nokia downtown. The no Kia theater and I'm downstairs, underground in the you know where the dressing rooms are. HMM, and down the long Hallway Bony James Starts Walking towards me and I never met Bony James in my life, never ever met the guy in my life. And he's walking towards me and as he walks past me, he goes, Hey, J how you doing? ha ha ha ha anders unders worst came back to me. Of everybody will know you, don't want to, don't know you, and you're like mission accomplished. And then the cost cruise is great because when you do the cost cruise I get to play with all these artists and then they're like, you know, a lot of them have their own bands, but at least, at least I'm the backup guy. Lee. Oh, I can call J my regular guy. Can't do it right? Right, absolutely, absolutely. Well, let's go back to mini for a second, because I also get such a great fit because I kind of knew you like a you know, we got to know each other. We can't remember how as as a rock dude. You know so right, I'm a rock dude. Yeah, and but I also remember when Mindy came out because I was just Mr Smooth jazz gut that, you know, because I got the cab big pretty much. I mean I started playing with her six months after I got here. Then that lasted for a few months and then I kind of didn't play with her for a year and then after that it was just Kiko, you know, for twelve years. You know, so's our GIG to man. Yeah, ship, very challenging gig, yes, but very, very, very cool. She's awesome work for. But I do remind I was I was I was also playing with Gret Crucas at that point and right and he was hosting this sort of weekly jam at this club in Hollywood and I can't remember the name of it. It was some sort of Mediterranean or Moroccan theme or something. anyways, but it was like the wave was hosting it was like sponsoring it. So Peter White would come out every week, you know, everybody would show ups, right, Jonathan Butler, and we were just jam you know, and it was cool. But Mindy came out a couple of times and I was like, Oh, who is this? And then after that it was like she just took over the airwaves, like she became so massive, not because of our jam, but because of the label was really pushing her. But what struck me is that she came with this pop thing that was right, very different and like all of a sudden. And I just heard it and I'm a pop guy really, you know. Right, as soon as I heard I was like, Whoa this is. This is the future of smooth jazz. You know, right, you know. Sure enough, over the next year's, you know, like playing with different people. They'd send me their CD's alearn. I'm like, this sounds exactly like that. I'm indy a bear. But she came to the smooth jazz and brought...

...the pop thing with her because she had played with the backstreet boys, is that right? Or she she'd worked with I think it was the backstreet boys, and she also worked with aerosmith and Duran, Duran, right. So she brought that pop to the smooth jazz. Right, he's the Rock and roller man. She she knows her rock and roll and yeah, you know, she grew up on the road. Her Dad's a musician. Got You. I did not know she's from Florida and she grew up on the road she was a little girl. Or Dad were slipping her all over the country in a van. Yeah, to get big with our drummer, Jamie Takes Dad. Oh, yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah, so, Jay Gore bringing the rock to smooth jazz. You know, you're also another guy who came to smooth jazz but didn't really change who you were. And you right. You know, you come with some some greedy, edgy tones. You're playing a strap, which is not a typical smooth jazz instrument, you know. And so I just said, I just thought it was such a perfect fit, you know, for you to be working with Mindy. Did there's all those things work together. Well, I have to say that it wasn't what I had planned for my life. You know, when I was doing the duff thing, I was like this is great, like I'm doing arenas now, and it's and I'm doing proper bus tours and and this is where I this is what I and I was already when I started playing with Duff. I was thirty four, wow, you know, and I'd been a road dog man all through my s, but I was I was doing the road dog thing, not at not at that level, as far as not at that budgetary level, you know what I mean? Not at right, world's biggest pop star level. Right, you are in a van. Probably I was in a van right. It was very weird because I came off of this thing where I had a guitar tech and I had a guy. All I literally did was just, you know, being the lobby when I supposed to do and be on stage when I was supposed to and that was my day, you know what I mean? Yeah, and then I went to this smooth jazz world where you actually work hard, you know what I mean? Nobody's doing anything. Your backlineing gear, which took me the longest time to get used to that backline thing, because I'm I'm like Mr Boutique Camp Guy. I'm on the road, Duff. I've got a bradshaw rig and wogner and a Rovera and, you know, a custom switching system and all this elaborate crap, right and then. And then I play with many and I'm like, what do you mean? I can't? What do you mean I can't get a boggner in Poo keepsie? What are you talking about? Well, just the you're ruining my whole show off. I don't have a Boggner, I don't have the you know, divided by thirteen or whatever kind of crea. Right, we admitted to kind of go. Listen, I gotta, like, I got to put that Shit aside and get on board with what I need to do now to make this shit all happen right. And I got smart with it real quick. I realized, you know, what I needed to do. And the thing with Mindy was great because, like I said, she let me be me. And you know, because you've done the smooth jazz circuit and you know how those artists are. They're all very talented. They're all way more talented than they ever get credit for being. Yeah, they can all blow their asses off, they can all, they're all readers, they all, they all be bop the motherfucker everything right and they and they play pop jazz music because it keeps them working and it keeps them making good money. And I don't think that's a cell out man. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think that's what you got to do. And then when we have these great festivals and these after hours jams and everybody's up there playing giant steps and you're like wow, you know, Rick Braun is Badasskural is Badass. You know, these guys are legit jazz players, man. Yeah, they just don't want to be. They don't want to be freezing on a subway in New York City, man. You know what I mean? That they don't have they want to raise families and do nice things in a vacations, and just nothing wrong with that. You know, right now. So many was great because mean that. You know, look, I'm a I have my personalities, an acquired taste. You know, I don't always say the most appropriate things at the most appropriate times, especially now in this really ridiculously politically correct, correct world that we live in. Listen, I tell Steve Luke at their jokes to make him cringe, I mean, you know what I mean. And and Minnie would just roll arise and go, you know it, just just shake her head. You know what I mean? She can, she can deal with that, you know, because she yeah, she's she's awesome. Yeah, so it was a great fit, you know. I mean I think your observation of that situation is pretty accurate. It was a great fit with her. I missed it, you know. She called me. It was basically two thousand and four to two thousand and fourteen it was ten years and she called me and said, listen, I gott to do this bone shakers thing. MMM, and you know, it may work,...

...it may not, and I may, I may have you back, but I got a team up with Randy right now, Reddy Jacobs, and do this bone shakers thing because and I knew why she did it. I mean I I'm not mad at her at all, you know. I mean I have a career because of her, right. But did you know? you see how the genre is, the genre is it's losing. It's losing radio stations weekly, right, and when you the radio station, whatever city that radio stations in, all the gigs go away with it. Right, exactly. You might. You might go from working with an artist, you might work with Peter White and you might do eighty, eighty gigs a month, eighty gigs a year. I mean, HMM. You know what? I saw this genre going from eighty eighty or eighty five gigs a year to the next year we had like seventy and year to that we had a fifty eight gigs and year after that it was like forty three gigs. In the year after that I was thirty gigs. And and you just see a whyn't we doing that GIG again? All the radio station change format? Why are we doing that Gig in Louisville? Other radio station change format? Right. So now you've got every one of these artists fighting tooth and nail to get on watercolors, right, because the wave is now not all over the world anymore for whatever reason. And the two or three Radio Promo people that are in that genre who know everybody are like trying to tactfully plan everybody's releases out so they don't conflict with each other, because we're all friends and we all love each other and it's our genre and right, you know, if one of us does well, we all do well that whole thing. And listen, man, I mean it's cool because it's work and the people are amazing, as you know, all the people you know you work with Kago, and you've got somebody who is very, very picky about the way her parts are played, but her music, to me, is more classical music than jazz music. Rights it's it's parts to interlock. You know you I might have forty bars task it. Yeah, and then I'll minute bar forty one and play some sixteen note run one bar and that's my whole part in the whole song, just that one bar, you know what I mean? And then you're just sitting there with your arms folded looking you know. Yeah, I mean that's how she is. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, she definitely comes from that classical mindset. Yeah, and for me though it was, it was fun because, like, yeah, just get you get into that. You know, how do I recreate this every night, note for note, and make it sound fun and fresh, like it's the first time I've ever played it in not, I mean and and making her happy to is just part of the GIG and she's I don't know, I have nothing but love for her. You know. That free to me too. Chess me to play a part one time and it was a whole it was a whole melody. She said, listen, I want you to play the second verse Melody On this Song, and I said, I said okay, you know, because when when I'm on the Cause Cruise, I've got minimum seven shows to learn random right. That's just on the main stage. Then I got other little things I'm doing in smaller lounges with other artists, you know. So I might have twelve, thirteen, fourteen shows that I got to learn. Wow, and I said, okay, Kake, I'll do my best for you, because I have a lot of other things to do, but I'll try my best to learn this. And she says, well, you know what's written now and her church are written out. But and I'm not a great reader, you know, look all full disclosure. I'm not that guy that can read fly shit. I'm not Tommy Two disco, you know. Right, and I'm not going to read her lines on the fly. Absolutely not right. And so that day its sound chick. She's just to me. WHO's about? Four days later, she's just to me. So are you okay with second verse? I said, Kiko, I got the first eight bars for you, because it was like a sixteen bar verse. That's I got the first thing. I got the first eight bars. I got them locked in perfectly, and she goes, okay, that's great, that's great, Jake. Thank you so much. You play eight bars in it all, play the next eight bars. It will be wonderful. Thank you. She was just so happy. That's I just made some effort. You know what I mean? Right, yeah, absolutely, yeah, and she's got this really interesting subtle way of just I always say like she wants it like this and she's gonna, she's gonna, she's going to be on your ass until it's that way. It's great, great, she's gonna be nice about it, but she's right, right, stop pounding you until that's right. You know, right. And it's a pretty cool way to be because it keeps, you know, tensions low in the band. But but you get what you need out of people. You know, like I forgot what we were talking about. Now I'm all reminiscing about a million cacost oh man. But yeah, but the genre, and Joe I know, is it's a but also you have these package deals to that have has rhythm section players. Like for me, I started to see the work start to go down...

...because now you have fact be artists going out with one band. What one band? And Kego has always been super loyals. She's always one band. She has a band. Right, even she was starting to do cruises, starting to do stuff with Brian Simpson and like okay, well, I have to consider that as far as my future in this genre and being a base, right, you know, and that's that must have been cutting and we work as well. Well, I was lucky because when that start happening I was with mindy and all in mindi's music was guitar driven music. All the songs were based on a guitar riff. Got You. So any and mind he's also, you know, other than maybe Candy Dolfer. You know, she's the top female artist, right, you know, right. She insisted whenever doing these packages, that that she's I have to have, have to have my guitar player. God, and so I know I didn't. Sometimes our drummer would be out of it, or a keyboard player, you know, but I was always there and I got to tour with great people. I got to tour with freaking David Pack, man. Yeah, I mean we got to play all these all these all the Ambrosia stuff with him, man, and it was like one of those things that August was talking about when he looks over he sees Dennis too young. He's like, my God, what am I doing here, you know, and it's like that with David Pack. I'm on stage and I'm singing dance how much up the right? Yeah, you know, up and don't learn, and I don't sing like you and August at all. Man, I can handle some low harmonies, but I'm not a singer and now I'm having to learn these intri kid harmonies, man, these Ambrosio harmonies. You, yeah, biggest Partney Sun rise me and your eyes be less, you know. Yeah, because like made you the minor in the same chord. I'm having to do half steps and I had to practice. I would sit there and play all the lines on my guitar and Sing along with my guitar playing, you know, to get the muscle memory, because I don't have that like you guys do, when you can just, you know, get that muscle memory in your voice, you know. But it was, it was amazing. And again, looking over it, looking over David Pack every night, man's like standing right next to the guy. And I did two shows with Ambrosias subbing for Joe Phearza on Bass. Yeah, he had shoulder surgery and couldn't play, but he was still there doing all the singing, so I didn't have to sing. But it was intimidating because here's the Bass player right in front of me all night. And and but I don't know if you how much Ambrosia you played with him, but the hit songs that David Pack Road and and saying are great. They're they're challenging, but they're rightful. The rest of the stuff is prog rock from right Oh, you know, like this. He's a strong guitar player. Yeah, MMM, he doesn't get enough credit for his guitar playing. And the thing is we didn't get deep with them. We did. You know how much I feel biggest part of me. You're the only woman I think. Those were really like all we did. And then we did a blues tune, like a baby king tune, because he likes singing the blues, you know. Yeah, yeah, but he would give me the Guitar Solos. Wow, you know, it's like, dude, I'm the Sideman Guy. You know, I got right, I'm not anybody. No, no, I love how you play. You know, you can. Please take the Solos. You know, take the Solos. And he played great when we would jam it sound check and stuff. He's such a tasteful player in his tone. He's one of those guys. He's like doesn't have the greatest gear and doesn't care, and then he plays into some rental amp with some crappy forty paunch shop overdrive pedal, you know, ha, ha, and it's a tone is killing man. I've got this like custom made buffer more gay craziness in front of me that cost me thousands of dollars, and like he just plugs into some like nine volt battery operated thing and just like sounds so good. It's just it's in your hands, you know. Yeah, hands a root the older. One night at the big potato I got to play with Mike land out playing after hours. We jammed and Mike play drums. I played on Mike's rig and all night long I was drooling in his tone. And then I plug into his guitar and his rig and his am and I'm playing them like this thing sounds terrible interesting. It's in his freaking hands. I stopped chasing tone. Then I stopped chasing other people's tones. I stopped buying something because Eddie van Halen used it. I stopped buying something because lucutor used it, or whoever, Steve Rayvan, whoever might be. I stopped buying shit because other guys were using it, because it's all in your freaking hands, man. I think that's absolutely right. I seen videos of Eddie playing backstage on an Electric Guitar Acoustically, MMM, and you're just can you just kind of hear him with the you know this, this looking on and you and you're like that's the tone. It's not even going through an amp and that's his think the brown sound is...

...in his fucking fingers. Man. Yeah, it ain't in the gear. You know it. It ain't in the gear, man. Yeah, it's not. Now the eyeside meal shown it Nam one time trying out an acoustic guitar and same thing that you're just saying, like there's there it is. You know, there's the same few study it. Shit pressing on it too. Yeah, study it. It makes sense if you study it. Okay, if you take if you're going to play slide guitar, you can use a glass slide, you're going to use a brass slide, you're gonna use a chrome slide. They all sound different. Yeah, okay, same guy playing all three slides going to have different tone. Then you've got the angle of your pick attack. Are you hitting the note perfect, perfectly perpendicular to the string, or you kind of Angling your pick a little bit? You know, and me all that stuff. Mans. Where are you resting your hand on the guitar? You back towards the bridge more. I you a guy that fan his fingers out and rested them on the pick guard so that he could pick between the neck pick up and the middle pick up on his strat when he played. Many a very nice warm tone because of that. And I said that's an interesting style. He says, yeah, when I was younger, I really worked to do this, because he never he didn't play with his hand free. He read with this thing, his fingers anchored like this and he would just pick this way. Wow, any of this beautiful warm tone on a strap, you know, just because he wasn't picking back over the bridge pick up like most of us do. Write. All that shit matters. Yeah, well, that should the city your skin. All of it all matters, absolutely so. So I'm going to speaking of Eddie Van Halen. Kind of excited to talk to you about it anyways because you know, obviously he just died and I'm kind of just by chance, have like three guitar players in a row right on the show, but just listening to you play, because I've, you know, I've spent the last two days just cyberstocking you, obviously, and you know a massive amount of Eddy Van halen influence. He must have learnt you grew up in La sort of a hometown hero. Yeah, how much of an influence was he on on your plan? Oh, I mean he you know, during the developmental years of my guitar playing, he was, without a doubt, the most influential person on on in my life. I was never one of those people to emulate him on a personal level, but as a guitarist. Look, I knew from a young age that I wasn't going to be an innovative kind of guy like he is. You know. I mean people don't people don't realize that aren't in the music business. I mean the guy literally changed the way we do everything, you know. I mean we could say that about Les Paul, with multitrack recording and and and solid body electric guitars and and it's funny when people want to compare Eddie to Hendricks. And I mean I realize that Hendricks is this this God that we can never say anything against, and I never will because I agree with all all the all the Hendricks. Hail Hendrix. Yes, yes, he didn't live long enough to leave as long as much of a mark as Eddie van Halen did. He didn't live long enough to have the legacy and and the catalog. Eddie van Halen has right. You know a perfect example? Eddie Van Halen played the Guitar Solo on beat it right. Okay, nobody ever thinks about the reason for this. The reason for this was Michael Jackson. Sank to Quincy, you're my producer. I want everybody by my record. I don't want to be a black artist, I want to be an artist. Right, how do I off the wall was wonderful, but white kids didn't my how do we get how do we get white people to buy my record? White people, the White Kids, they love rock music. It's the s they love. Well, we got to get Eddie van Halen. That's Steve Luke at they're sitting right there in the freaking room with that. Can't ask for a better guitar player. Right now. We Call Call Eddie Van Halen. So what happens is you get all I know is I went out and bought am Michael Jackson Reck Right, and I probably wouldn't have bought maybe years later, when my musical Palette was more developed and I was like, Oh this Michael Jackson's a freaking genius, and Quincy's a genius and Greig filling gains is a genius and they're all geniuses, you know, and there aren't making a record together, but when you think about it, it was the most intelligent thing ever because all the rock fans went out and bought a Michael Jackson records that they never would have bought. Yeah, and the funny story is is that everybody knows the story about Eddie hanging up on quincy because he didn't believe it was him and then never getting paid for the session. Everybody knows this story, but I don't know if people realize this. With David Lee Roth van Halen never had an album go to number one. They had number one singles, but they didn't have an album go to number one. So van Halen releases one nine hundred and eighty four and thriller is released and Thriller Goes Number One and Van Hals one thousand nine hundred and eighty four goes number two. And imagine if Eddie didn't play on thriller, it may not have gone number one because...

...it was a whole different demographic of people were buying thriller, myself included, right right because Eddie was on it, and this pissed off Davidly Roth to no end. I'm sure that it was the last album with him, you know. Yeah, but he changed it all, man, we all we can go through get. Cars are made differently now because of him. Amplifiers are made differently now because of him. There's there's an entire business for people building their you know, companies like warmouth. People weren't doing that. People went to the music store and they bought a guitar. That was it. Right, you don't. You dealt with that. I was just I was a kid to man. I had a Gibson style guitar and I wanted to Stratstog Guitar. But I like the sound of the Gibson Guitar on the way the strap. But it didn't cross my mind to just, Oh, rip the pickup out of my Gibson and slap it in my fender. Right, all those things, you know, lowering the voltage on the amp to get more overdrive on it. Now amps are made with extra gain stages in them to do what Eddie was doing. Hmm Right, you know all the techniques. You you can every want to talk about that. That the two hand topic stuff. Yeah, that's all great. He never said he had. He never said he invented it. People say he admitted it. He never said he invented it. Right, right, didn't invent it. There's jazz guys from like the s there de finding videos. Now these jazz guys do it all that too, handed tip stuff, but he didn't know about them. Right, right. There was no youtube in one thousand nine hundred and seventy three. You know, I can go on and on about Eddie. But yeah, he was my favorite. Even to the day he died, I was still the hugest fan. I went and saw play all the time. I got to meet him and speak with him one time, and then there's another time I was in an elevator with him and another time I was a guitar center when he came in and bought some keyboards. But there was the one time when I he saw me play at a GIG. I was doing hmm and south and watched me and I went and talk to you afterwards. I actually put a post on my facebook page last week. Yeah, I was going to bring that up because it's really cool story. But yeah, I was. It was a heartbreaker for me, a heartbreaker for sure. I'm still I'm still you know, I'm just just today I was playing my guitar and I I tears in my eyes just thinking about my guy. I can't believe. Yeah, it's not here walk like breathing the same error as the rest of US anymore. You know. Yeah, absolutely, Star. So there are a lot of us out of work right now, waiting to get back to play and shows and touring, and I know I've had to do whatever I can do to take my mind off the situation from time to time, and one of the ways to pass the time is to catch up on some books you've missed. But if you're like me and you don't love to read, there's another way you can consume audiblecom has thousands of titles to choose from, including audio books about music production, songwriting, the music business, music theory, instructional audio books and biographies of Your Favorite Musical Heroes. But besides audio books, you can also listen to podcasts, theatrical performances, a list comedy and exclusive audio originals you won't find anywhere else. Right now, you can get a free thirty day trial if you visit audible trialcom dive Bar rock star. That's audible trialcom dive Bar Rock Star and you can catch up on your audio reading. I'd like to take a second to thank you for listening to the dive Bar Rockstar podcast. As a new podcast, getting the word out as a vital part of what it takes to keep the show on the road, or off the road, as the current case. Maybe if you would like to support the podcast, all you got to do is subscribe wherever you listen and if you have an extra minute or two, please leave a review. You can also share and follow the podcast on your social media APPS. Okay, enough begging. I hope you're having fun and once again, thank you for listening. You are playing the sunset strip at thirteen years old. Yeah, I was that a lot. So it's it's so interesting to me as someone who moved here to you know, anytime I I know and meet people that grew up here, but especially someone like you who, you were young, right in the midst of Eddie van Halen's right moment and Luke ather and land out, and you know Michael Thompson right to junior. You know all these guitar players you got to sort of watch happen in front of your eyes. First of all, I have to say I really admire guys like you and August and all the rest of you because of what you did. You picked up from where you came from and you came to La because you wanted to be at the top level of everything, because you knew inside of you you could be with the top level of everything. And when you pick up, there's a lot of people to pick up and move to La and they go right back home really soon because they realize, I don't belong out here. These guys are next level out here, and I never thought of it that way because I was born and raised out here...

...right so that's to me. It's just like that's it. You know, I'm just lucky because I'm here in the center of it all. And I did and I grew up in west La. I grew up in a little neighborhood right near century city, you know, in West La, and I went to school with some guys that we were all the same age and some mutual friends. I went to one school in the neighborhood and some of the other guys went to the school that was like, you know, six blocks away from my school, also in the same neighborhood, and this one friend of mine said, Hey, I last year I went to this school and there's a guy there that plays guitar and drums and and they're really great, and then you should start a band with these guys. And we all met up and we started this band and the band was called frequency cool and we wrote our own stuff. Man, we were diligent, we were we were in the eighth grade. Wow, we had we were so focused. I still remember our schedule was Monday, Tuesday and Thursday after school. Straight from that bell ringing, we all hopped on our bikes and we went to the garage to rehearse and then it would be either Saturday or Sunday. It was a floating day on the weekend. The pennant upon my little league schedule, HA, ha ha. And we would do that, man, we would get together and the other guitar players, and these are guys I'm still really good friends with to this day. Wow, that's so cool. The guitar players a lawyer now, but the drummer is he's an artist, you know, he makes art and he he runs an art gallery. The Bass player passed away when we were twenty. One one of the singers is a film editor now. See, yeah, I mean I'm friends all these guys. We wrote all of our own music and we had to. We had two garage surf because we would be in a garage after school and it was just a matter of the cops coming enough times for the parent of whoever's garage we were in to be like, that's it, you can't ha ha ha. We got to my dad's garage last, and the COPS would come to my dad's garage. You know, it would be that thing like they bang on the garage door and they'd open up the garage door and like the cloud of smoke would pour out like like the Spicoli van Best Tiser is because, you know, we were advanced for our age in every way. You know, right, right, if you test my meet, and they would, they would say you got to stop and you guys stop. So one day they came by the House and my dad drove up into the driveway like five in the afternoon when the cops were just leaving, and they said, you know, you're these kids can't be doing this, they're they're breaking noise ordinances in the in the neighbors are complaining and he says we're gonna have to write at you a ticket and he said, my dad says, I don't care, man, they're out there practicing. What does it matter? He says, I'M gonna have to write you ticket every time I come over here, and he says, look, these kids are back here making music, man, they're not out there doing graffiti, they're not riding skateboards down the street stealing purses from old ladies like they're doing something productive. Man. You know, if you need to write me a twenty dollar fine so that they can practice, I don't care. Rite me to find you know, I don't care. My Dad was cool like that. That's really cool. So we had a bunch of tunes in my bit. My Drummer, who's a real go get, a real type A personality. He says, listen, man, we got to get a GIG now. I was like a Gig, I'm talking about a Gig like we would invite girls from school to come to the garage after watch us for hers. That was good enough for me, man. I was so popular, you know, Ha and and he's like no, no, we got to go play in a club and there's the troubador and I was like the true we can play at the troubador. Yeah, we get on our bikes, ride up to the troubador and we walk in the back door and we go up the steps into the offices and there's this dude in their name Mike Oliver. I'm not gonna say his last name, but I'll never forget this guy. HMM and we he says, he goes, what do you kids want? We heard there's no age limit here. Yeah, well, we want to play here. Oh Really? Yeah, we want to play here. Well, you got a demo tape? What's a demo tape? He's like, you need to bring me a demo tape. Make me you need to go to a studio and you need to record your songs on a tape, at least least four songs, and then bring it back to me. Oh Shit, how are we going to do that? Keep in mind this is one thousand nine hundred and eighty three. Wow, okay, there's no. It's analog city, Buddy. There's no, you know. So we go and we all beg our parents and half the guys in the band's parents said no, and my dad and my drummers dad were like yeah, go for it, man. Book the studio will do it, will pay for it. Yeah, so we went to this recording studio in Glendale and I remember walking in there and seeing the console and I sat down by the console and I remember just really loudly saying to the guy I want to know what every one of these knobs and everyone of these buttons does. I want to know what all of them do before I leave here right now. I want to know. So we get in the room and he's got the Gobos up and we're playing live together. We track four songs...

...and we track them. We do three takes of each song. MM. So we bang it out facts because we we're well rehearsed, you know. We I think we banged out your talking about to getting there, miking everything up. or I broke a string in the middle of a take and he goes, go ahead and change the string and I said I don't have a string, and he comes out and he goes, what do you mean you don't have a string? I said I broke my string, I don't have a spare string. He goes starts yelling at me that it's so unprofessional. How could you dare come to a recording student and not bring spare strings meets unprofessional and I could. Dude, I'm thirteen. Bro Ha ha, their team man. I've never been to a studio before. So he canos dring. So we're out of there and maybe three hours and did the met or did a mix in the whole thing. We got demo. Now we go back to the troubador. We're so excited. Here, dude, here's our demo tape. He puts it on, he's listening to you. Goes, this isn't you guys. Wow. We said, well, who do you think it is? He says maybe this is your big brothers or something like that. This isn't you guys. We said, we swear this is us, man, this is us. He says, I don't know. He says where do you guys rehearse? We said we were hers just a few blocks away from here in my garage. He says, when's your next rehearsal? We told him the next rehearsal was. He was I'm going to come down and see. I want to see your rehearsal. What's at that? When you think about it now, it sounds what club promoter would offer to come and actually watch your he came to the hurt Oh man. He showed up and he sat there and watched the rehearsal. He said, okay, I'll tell you what I'm going to give you, guys, us. I'm going to give you guys, a Sunday night. And we said no, no, no, we want a Friday or Saturday. We want to open for rat or we want to open for great white, or we want to open for poison, but we want to open for Wasp, or we want to seriously, now we're like going because all these dands were, all these bands were still local bands. Ru now MMM. And he's like, first of all, you can't open for those bands because there are bands that have been playing at the club for a lot longer and have earned the right to be on a bill with them. We said, dude, we can't play on a Sunday night. We go to school on Monday. We can't get people there. If you put us on a sturday night, we're going to pack this place. He said, I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll give you a Sunday night on a threeday weekend when you don't have school on a Monday. Wow. So he gave us March twenty seven. And then we pack that place and the deal was it was four dollars to get in. People that came in without a ticket. We got eighty five cents of that four dollars. They gave us a stack of tickets. We got like a hefty bag full of tickets and we went to the stationary place that we bought four rubber stamps with our logo. We got all our siblings to sit and stamp frequency, frequency, frequents at all the tickets, and then I had my sister, I was sister who's a year younger than me. I said to her, I said, Heather, listen to me, you sit by the ticket booth and you count every one of those tickets that comes in and I don't want these guys screwing us at the end of the night on the money. Well, thoughteen years old and I'm she's like that, you know, amazing. Yeah, so we made money, bro we made like almost five hundred bucks that night and the guy was so happy couldn't wait to book us again. We did it. We packed his club on a Sunday night. Wow. So that was my first gig ever. Man. I remember we rented full step Marshall, full stacks from Sir and in the whole thing. Man. Yeah, as a kid from Broomfield, Colorado, that's just I mean I have so much the same story, you know. And if we had a like a recording studio move into our town when I was fourteen and right I discovered it. I like borrowed money from my grandparents and like I got to go in and do a tune and I played all the instruments or whatever, but I didn't have the true minor to go to you know, have and my dad was super supportive as well. And let us rehears in the house, you know, I we got to play inside the house so we didn't get the cops called as much, you know. But right, but just when I hear a story about like that and just the access that you had, I'm so lucky, man, I really am. I'm so lucky. I got to see all these guys, Warren de Martini and George Lynch and all these guys, when they were just playing at the trube and playing it, playing it at Gazaur's and yeah, and I remember. I remember seeing Jake Lee play. was in a band called rough cut and because I would go after school on the days when we were doing bad precs, I would just drive up though he need it's to the troubador and I go in the back door for in the afternoon and when they're loading in for Sun check and I would just sit in the balcony watch all these bands. If became super, super huge, famous bands, you know, black and blue and poison and right band rat, all those guys, wasp, and I remember seeing striper and getting hit by leaves in the head with a Bible and I got hit with well, meet at a wasp concert and all that stuff. Man, I was a kid, but they let us in. Yeah, it was great. And then when I got a little older in high school, somebody turned me onto Steve Luke at the yeah, you know, I was ruling too, George Lynch and Warndy Martini and Eddie van Hale and like those were my guys. M somebody turned me on to Steve to see Luke at there, and I didn't get toto at first. They were a little too kind of what's the word of looking for theatric goal?...

Maybe interesting, you know what I mean? They were just a little too, you know, like there was very, very involved keyboard arrangements and some of that stuff. You know, when you listen to stuff like like music book inner, Meaning Yeah, he's yeah, it was kind of like when you listen to stuff like hi, drum and I we said, I listen to it now and I'm just an all man. Yeah, you know, I'm listening all the kind of stuff is amazing. And Steve Luke at there's like a teenager playing on this record, you know, like the first toto record. He's he's like Nineteen, Oh man, and he's playing that. He's playing with such freaking just such a maturity, man. Right, right. He plays on this song called chloe, a really old Elton Johnson and Jeff pkarl plays drums on it and he does the Solo on it and you can play here. He's playing at three hundred and thirty five and and I thought for sure it was Larry Carlton and then I read no, it's Steve Luke at there, and I called him up and I'm like what's up with chloe man, because man, that was one of the first big sessions I did after high school. And he goes, I'll trying to be like Larry and I brought a three hundred and thirty five and in a volume pedal and the and I said, how can you play? I mean when I was nineteen, twenty years old, I could play anything, but tastefully exactly right, absolutely just, you know, I was listening to the wrong guys. He was listening to Carlton and Jake Grayden and, yeah, telling me to death's go. He was listening to those cats, and I'm I was. I was listening to Warranty Martini and George Lynch, and so I started listening to Steve Luke at their land out and go to the bake potato and seeing charisma and and lost the bottomies and all that stuff and yeah, yeah, you know, and it became friends with those guys. I'm sure your friends those guys to you know, we're all local cats and we all become friends. You know, that's another thing that you don't get with your from a small town is like everything seems so far away, you know, which is nothing I love about Liv in La Anyways, because you get here and then you start watching TV and you're like, Hey, that's the pub in my neighborhood or that that's the you know, and you're like who all of a sudden you realize now it seems like TV is made for you, because it's all about you. It's so many things are in la or New York, you know. So what do you think I mean, having come from all that like, what are your thoughts about that? LA? La As a music town in general, right, is it's it's it doesn't feel like that anymore. To me. It's definitely not. It's not a music town anymore because music isn't really in need of a music town anymore. And that's true. It's just not Um. So for me, what it was was I grew up in La and so if I grew up, if I grew up in some small town, I probably would have had to be as good as as the best guitar player in my high school, right, you know. But I grew up in La, so I got to go see Larry Carlton Play Right in front of me and and and Robin Ford and Lucather and Landau and Carl ver high and and ice. I could see these guys foot in front of me right and that was what I had to get. I had to get there, I had to get at that level, at least try. You know what I mean because if I want to beat able to work. You know, I was a band guy my most of my life, until my early twelve, you know, from thirteen until about twenty one, I was a band guy. I wasn't thinking about being a session player, I wasn't thinking about being a sideman. I was I was going to be a rock star man, you know what I mean? I was I was going to be warned Martini. You know, I was. I was really into I was going to be in the living color and I was playing on the sunset strip and I was eighteen, nineteen years old and I had a black lead singer in my band and we're playing like funky metal stuff, you know, kind of like what extreme is like. And Yeah, and that band living color and already got it. Nobody got it, you know, and that's okay, you know, but I got a GIG. There's a band called Hamilton, Joe, frank and Reynolds. They were like a soft rock band from the s thed. We call it yacht rock now, right, yeah, and they had two big hit songs. One was called falling in love, baby, baby, if all the name, yeah, that's love, right, and the other one was don't pull your love out on me. Oh Yeah, down, Paul Yell Uh, that's the one. Yes, so the lead singer and guitar players names Dan Hamilton, and it's a really convoluted story, but he's kind of like an uncle to me. That isn't related to me. Basically, his wife and sister in law introduced my mom to my dad in high school. Oh Wow, so he's kind of like a Godfather, if you will, or he's an he was in avuncular figure in my life. MMM. And he was when I was playing at the Trubuda US thirteen. He was there at the GIG and he's the...

...one I told my parents, you should encourage this. He's got that are quotes. It thing you shouldn quize. Got The potential. So he was hiring me to do some local stuff around town. When I turned twenty one, they brought me on the road and I went to Vegas with them and I had a ball. It's my first time like being on the road as a side guy and I was young. I was twenty one and everybody in the band is his like fifty right, you know, and like over it and we got one more set to do, you know, like those guys. I'm like yeah, we play it again, you know what I mean. And they wanted they wanted me to be shreddy guy. They're like, you know, no, like take Solos and all the songs and play whatever you want, and we want that young gun shreddy thing. MMM, okay, cool man. So at the end of the week he came up to me and he handed me an envelow. The had eight crisp one hundred dollar bills in it and I think we did a for night, or I think was two hundred a night. I never asked about the money. To me, I didn't care. I was like I was out of my mom's house and I was playing my guitar. It lost fucking Vegas Man, and I was and I was, you know, hanging out with cocktail waitresses till all hours in that I was having a great time, you know. So I thought to myself I did have to worry about a bass player who isn't good enough to play the music I write. I didn't have to worry about a drummer that wants to co write the songs with me because he could play two bar chords on his beat up Acoustic Guitar. I don't worry about a lead singer who'd rather who's more concerned about getting blow jobs and finishing his lyrics right. I don't have to worry about all these managers at all these nightclubs that don't pay me what they say they're going to pay me at the end of the night. I don't have to worry about any of this crap anymore. I just show up and play my guitar and get paid. Huh, what do you know about that? Yeah, man, it really changed my perspective a lot. Man, it kind of took the artist hat off and it put the side man hat on. Yeah, I'm not sure if it was the right decision or not. I mean, I've had a good life. I've had a good career. You know, the whole scene moved to Seattle not long after that, anyways, right around that time, you know, it literally just picked up. I mean you weren't here yet, right at that time. No, no, no, the way it used to work with you put a band together and you go and you play at the rocksie the whiskey or Ghazari's or here's place called Rodgie's. There's some other there was madam wog's east and West and there's the tribuator and you build and you you know, we had this magazine called Rock City News and Bam, you put your and you put ads in those magazines for your show and you had to take the sexiest, coolest looking picture to put in those magazines. Otherwise the girls weren't going to come and the dudes don't come to your show if the girls are coming your show. Right, you had your hair really big and you have the the killing cloth. You had had a girlfriend that had a good job so she could buy you all this shit that you needed. You know, periously, I'm not even joking. That's how it was in those days. You know, all the guys in bands had girlfriends that had normal jobs and supported our musical habit, if you will, and bought our hair stylings in our in our cool closing that we had to buy on melrose from New York, New York, from the Guy Cosmo that was there. We all went, everybody shopped at the same stores and bought the same shit and you'd find a new way to rip it differently. Oh, I'm gonna do like that, you know, ha ha. But you would post her son set all the way from where the whiskey is to Doheny. Every light post would literally just be posted with flyers with the tabs. You pull off and you bring the TAB and you get discount door and and then street would be full of people with such a seam at. It was like Marti Gras New Orleans. It was just every night, just people in the street dressed with the hair and in the full regalia. Man Yeah S, hair band, regal, you, everybody, guys and girls, the Rainbow, people pouring out of the rainbow every night and it was literally just what it what it seemed like. You lose that way, like when you look at a rat video or you know if that's what it said. That's what it was like. And then all of a sudden, just boom, you'd start your band, you get a following, you moved to a later time slot, you get a Friday night, then you get a Saturday night, then you get to play Gazari's because it was the biggest place. And when you'd sell Kazar he's on a Saturday night and sometimes you get two shows on a Saturday night because you'd sell it out and they'd clear the house and bring it in. Then the labels were coming to see you, right, you know, and you might get a demo deal. They might give you five grand to go make a demo. You don't saying. Yeah, now none of that happens. Now you buy a laptop and you open up your ad garage band and you have a Palette of drum beats and you click on them and too, you here when you like, and then you grab it and you drop it on a timeline and then you go to the base. A monkey can make music now, right, it's changed the business. You know. Yeah, it's yeah, it's not telling I'm not telling you anything you don't know. You know right. But well, I've been but forty far. That, though, it seems to me like the pay to play start to happen as well, which to me like now when you go down to the whiskey and...

...you want to get a Gig, right, you know, it's completely up to you. There's no scene, like you're saying. They're repeat everywhere, so all you have to do is get their attention. Now there's nobody seen, there's nobody there. And they used to book like bands. So they would book four or five bands and night. And when they booked you you might have to wait. Okay, they call me next week. I don't have a night that's right for your band yet. Yeah, because they want they want you at the eight o'clock slot to bring in your forty or fifty people and then they're going to stay for the next band and the next band they want if they like you. They're like they wanted not bands it were identical to each other, but at least in the same stratosphere of one another. You know what I mean. They don't care for any of that anymore. But the pay to play thing had to happen, because what happened was because I was in it before was paid to play and I was in it after it was paid to play, and pay to play benefited me. Interesting because it had to happen because by the late S, by eighty six ish, every band from every place in this country was loading up their van and leaving their small town and moving to La to become big rock stars. And then they booked bands. They booked a show at the troubador, the whiskey and three people came. The clubs in the clubster losing money like crazy. So they had to so really with the pay to play at. I don't know how it works now. Then the way they did it was you had to buy fifty tickets at say, five bucks a pump. So when you book the show, they'll front you the fifty tickets and at sound check you have to give them two hundred and fifty dollars. And that's how it worked. So what I said, because I was a local guy and I had no problem with the following, because everybody my band were native guys and you know, we've been our whole life. I said to the Guy, I'll tell you what, give me fifty tickets, right, I'll sell them for five books a pup and then I'm going to come back and don't want you to give me unlimited tickets for free. And they were fine with that right. So literally four five, maybe a week later, I come back and I have the two hundred and fifty for them and I and I bring an empty hefty bag with me, a big forty gallon laundry, you know. You Know Garden back and I'd say fill it up any big fill it up with tickets and we would either give them away or sell them right, make tons of money. We would make very good profit. Wow, we're seldom door answer. Uncles or cousins are guys that we're selling every every guy in the band is selling forty, five, forty tickets easily. Right. Wow, so it's and that's all money in our plucket, MMM, because I've given them the hundred and fifty. Right, yeah, and it's great for established situations, like you're right, but now it's to the point where it's like now you sell your you know, forty, maybe you get twenty nine people to come down, they stay right set and then they leave right because there's not they're not there for a night of music, they're there because, well, my friend gave me a ticket or you know, right, right, and the clubs don't seem to care that. That's never going to change unless you start sort of putting some more promotion back into it. And it also means that the bands they get to play are the ones that can bring people, not the ones that are worthy of being seen right there garage. You know, there used to be some sort of filter, like, you know, the Troubadour Dude made you get a demo and it had to be a certain quality. Right, you know, now it's I mean, I mean not to not to not to keep bringing up Steve Lucather, but he said, you know, it used to be a lot of people had to like you before you could make an album. Right, right, you know, actually, you're your girlfriend. You're right. Your girlfriends had to like you, and then you had to book a Gig and the people that came to you, the people at the club, had to like you. The owner of the club, of the book or the Club, I like you. Then you had to have enough people for a phone to come, like you said, the club would book you again, right, and and then somebody from the record company would have to come out and they would have to like you, and then they'd have to go tell their boss. This is at the label, and the boss at the label would have to like you enough to go to their boss to give you money to go to a steal. A whole bunch of people had to like you before you could even make a record. Now, right, anybody can make a record. Anybody can make a record. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I know it. So it's the valued music. It's completely devalued music. Right, yeah, and we all kind of are feeling the we all suffer because of it. You know, and I mean you went to your Berkeley Guy. I'm an M I guy, you know, I mean we we put in the work. You know what I mean? Absolutely, absolutely, you know. Yeah, and all that being said, you know, this show is kind of a lot about loving Los Angeles, you know, and that's like from a band, from put together a band and come here and try to make at standpoint. That's right, it's Dat's dead. But that doesn't mean still not a lot of opportunity here from musicians. And for me, you know, my wife moved to La so she's a lawyer and a psychologist. HMM, she...

...moved to La and she's just like, I can't believe how open to ideas people are here. You have creative ideas and everybody's open. They don't look at you like you're a threeheaded monster we talking about. You know what I like? Everybody's so open and create and creative and they're open to yoga and they're open to healing things and positivity and good energy and all this hippie kind of stuff. You know. I'm like, yeah, they are. I mean you have that and you have the type a you know, business people that are are you? You have it all there, you know. Yeah, but I mean look it's my city. I grew up there, I was born there, yeah, I was. I was actually born in Hollywood pass yeah, but I love it, man. I'll never live anywhere else. I really can't see myself living anywhere else fulltime. Well, you've made an amazing career in thank you, in a diverse career, which I really think is pretty cool. I mean, you do a lot of smooth jazz, mostly smooth jazz now, yes, but that doesn't mean you can't work your way awesomely through a journey tribute band or whatever. You know, you have a love it people, lovers, player and and you, and it's reflected in your resume and your bio and you know. Actually, before we go, we should talk about your solo stuff. Okay, cool. The first album is called identity. I did that album because after playing with Dave call pause, he we went to this burger join in Lah that you know about, but for those people of elsewhere there's a very iconic burger join la called the Apple Pan. HMM. And we go to the Apple Pan and we're eating and he looks at me and he says, how come you don't have an album? He says, everybody on the cruise knows you and you walk up and down the hallways and everybody knows Jay Gore. He says, but you don't have an album. I said I've never done an album, a jagore album, because I don't know what kind of album I would do. I would feel that I need to do a smooth jazz album because that's my fan base at this point in my life right. But I'm a rock and roller and I love playing Acoustic Guitar and he said do it all, man, people want to Jay Gore Elm. So I did identity and that's that's why it's identity. It's got that's got all the weird tuning, Michael Hedges, Acoustic Guitar kind of stuff. I did a couple tunes Peter White and eight Cot wrote a song that was a single win too, number six on the charts, called the FF. Yeah, how did that come about? I I was thinking in a business way. I was thinking, if I want to get on the radio, would be cool if I had a single that had a big name on it. And Peter and I are really, really close because we did a package with mindy and he and I just bonded because he, you know, Peter's a big rock and roll guy. You can't stump. You can't stump Peter on rock tunes at all. You can call a you can call out anything from Emerson like and Palmer to April a wind. He knows it all. He'll just sit down put the all. He knows it all and he's got such an ear. If he's ever heard a song, he can just ear his way through it. It's incredible. Wow. So I said, Hey, man, I'm going to do my first record and I would love it. I'd be so honored if you would either produce my record for me or or produce one song or co write or do a guest spot. Just I want you involved in some way, however, whatever you're comfortable with. He goes. I would love to write a song with you because I don't have time to produce it or engineered or anything like that, but I'll track my guitars with rights. So we wrote. I wrote the main rift of the tune and the melody and he wrote the whole bridge section and he did the arranging of like he taught me this great thing. He says, you know, when pop song, he goes. You're written a pop song here called a smooth jazz song, but it's in the key of D and it starts on a d chord and then the chorus we have a prechorse and then we go to the next course, which also starts on a d course, on a dcord. To make it pop, there's a rule. The pre chorus cannot be for divisible bars. It cannot be a four bar precurse. It cannot be an a bar precurse or twelve bar or sixteen bar. It has to be five bars or seven bars or six he goes, listen to jump by Van Hammond. He actually told me this. Listen to jump by Van Halen. Can't you see me stand in here? I got my back against the wreck. It's like a nine or ten bar precurse because it's the same progression in the chorus as in the verse. God's an order for that force to pump, the precourse has to be not divisible by four. Wow, trippy. Never thought about that. I'M gonna go back and listen to songs down. Yeah, so I did that. We hate we added an extra bar in there. He did very cleverly and we wrote song and the radio guys loved it and that's how that happened. And I wrote with this guy, Ernie Halter, beautiful song. He's a great singer. Yeah, I know, and it's great. And I wrote with Connie Limb, who's an amazing singer, and I wrote with Shane August that. There's a couple vocal tunes on there. Come back to...

...awesome, come back to me. Well, time can be a drizz when you leave your heartest side of summer tree. So it's see, I was a spring. I'd stick around until the falling out of leaves. It's the ground fall fun. But then for the next album I decided I want to do an artist album. MMM, you know, and that's Goodtronica and I thought, what do I want? I love when I come to Europe, but I hear that stuff they're playing at the beaches, that real kind of electronic like kind of mid tempo and enigma massive attack. Right, he recorporation kind of stuff with electric overdrive guitar on it, but not shreddy, not not going into saw Treani land, right, right, you know, staying more in Gilmore, Jeff Beckland. Right. And so I spent a lot of time really, if you listen to Gettronica man, the guitar tone. I spent a lot of time really cultivating that tone I heard. I had it in my head. I actually had to have a guitar kind of specifically made for it, a tyler I use the JE James Tyler Guitars, HMM, and at earniemall guitars, but mostly Jim Tyler's a very good friend of mine and an incredible guitar maker, and I talked to him myself. Look at this is what I want to do and I want a guitar that's just, you know, a humbucker and a single quolle neck and nothing in the middle. And we designed the guitar and I wanted a different kind of neck shape and and we did all that and then it was a matter of taking all my amplifiers out of my storage unit and plugging them in and tweaking the toast to and recording things to see how they sounded. Recording. Finally I came up with the right gun em Bo right, yeah, and I can, and I use it for every song, every songs, the same amp in the same guitar that album. And that's it. I want it because I wanted it, like I wanted to have a sound for the first time in my life, not just be studio guy. Yeah, you know, giving you know, showing up with card, because I did. I did that whole thing, man, where I had the courtage guy, Lon Cohen, and and a Roadie that carried all my shit and I had all the bradshaw gear and trunks fuld. You know, I'd show up with fifteen guitars and fifteen amplifiers and bradshaw all that Shit. Man, wow, and you're just the guy they want, you know what I mean? You're like and it was sad because I didn't get to be a luke or land up, because when I showed up two sessions, that's what they wanted. Give this a the land out thing here, you know, right, give us a Luca there thinking, and I don't go hey, man, I'm Jay Gore. I like, I'm honored that you think I can even try to do that Shit for you. You know what I mean? I mean. Yeah, so, get Tronica is my baby, man. I mean I love identity. I made identity in like two and a half months. Gettronica took me a year, wow, to write it and get the tones where I wanted it and and I don't get animal about shit. I don't sit there and three track over and over and over again. You know, I'm not that guy. You know. Right, I want I want I want the energy of it being a fresh performance. Right, right, and and there's an improvised section in all of the songs, even though they're structured songs. There's definitely a guitar Solo, if you will, in the songs. That gets away from the a lot of part right, right, right, but I'm really proud of it and I really want to work that. I really want to get gigs doing that as an artist, doing mikatronica thing. That's awesome, though. Yeah, so if people want to get it, it's only available at your website. It's on j gorecom. Yeah, great,...

...excellent, Orgatronica dotnet. Yeah, either one. Oh, okay, cool. Yeah, it's really been awesome talking to you, man. Thank you, man, I appreciate. I appreciate. Call me me for this, man, I really do. Well, you know, I've I've silently looked up to you through it, throughout the years, you know, and that is so I can. I hope we get to play together, you know, in the future. On absolutely, man. I Have I've the highest respect for you, man, I really do, I really do. I think you're very talented cat and a nice guy. I've definitely would love to do something in the future. I have to say before we before we go, there's two things I need to plug. Absolutely they're not available yet. I'm working on two things right now. One is I'm working on a book, autobiography, where I will tell all these stories and and I'll get into I'm going to meet with the Lauren find out like, do I have to change people's names, all that kind of stuff. You know what I mean, because I got dirt on, you know, dirt on people that they probably don't want to hear about it. And then the other thing is I'm in the middle of putting together, you know, like a whole coaching thing, like a video coaching yeah, and it's going to do everything from like how to audition properly, how to put your gear together for for specific gigs, proper etiquette on a tour bus, proper etiquette and an air poor proper etiquette when you're you know, how to be the guy. You don't have to be the greatest guitar player in the world, but you have to be somebody that people want to live with on a bus for six months. Right. No, actually, that kind of stuff. You know, I think we talk about a lot on this show. Right this, this is going to be just it's listen, there are a million guys on youtube all teaching you how to play eruption better than I can. So I'm not going in there. I'm not going there, but I have you know, look, I've played with Michael Bolton, I've played with Michael McDonald. They're two very different Michaels, two very different Michael I've played with Lauren Hill and I've played with Warren Hill and two very different hills. You know what I mean? Yeah, and you know what I mean. I played with Eddie money, I played I mean so many people I've played with, but every GIG is different. And how you walk into these gigs, how do you get these gigs? how You keep these gigs the most important thing. Yeah, all that stuff. How does it work? How does it tour manager work? How does getting up every day and going to the next town? How does all that work? All I'm going to be doing seminar, you know, coaching courses on all of these things. Well, that's amazing. That's excellent. Well, when you get when you get both of these things done, come back my podcast and let's talk all about them specifically and awesome and it made up to learn, because that's it's really good to see you and talk to you, man, really good, even if it is, you know, we're thousand miles apart or some some crazy shit work that when I get back in town, I'll hit you up, we'll grab some lunch. That sounds perfect, star man. I love hearing that firsthand, you know story about what La was like in the S, because I just was so obsessed as a kid and only could watch it on TV. You know, I also love when he said it he had fallen into smooth jazz and it wasn't what he had planned for his life, because I think that's something that a lot of side men and women have in common. Usually we don't start out to be hired guns, you know, but the opportunities present themselves and we jump and we want to make a living playing music, so let's just do it. But a lot of times that means kind of leaving your dreams behind. You know, I wanted I wanted to be a lead singer and a songwriter, you know, a rock star when I first started, but the opportunity to just play my bass and get paid kept coming up and that's what people wanted from me at the time. So eventually I just started saying yes, and that decision has provided me with, you know, a crazy, awesome life. Once I gave into that notion that I'm supposed to be a bass player, it led me to everything else I wanted. Now I have my own records, I've written hundreds of songs and some of them have been on TV and in films and have been sung by other artists. I've toureds my own band and I've been able to play with some of my heroes. You know, all because I just followed that path that was right in front of me and I didn't I didn't resist or I stopped resisting. I resisted for a minute, but I stopped resisting and like the whole world kind of opened up. You know, could I have been the next out and John? I'll never know, but when I look back at my life I'm definitely in awe of everything that I've been able to do. And sometimes those things that you wanted, you know, they show up. They just don't look like you thought they were going to look. So I've been able to use my bass playing and those opportunities to steer my life in a direction of getting all those things, you know, one way or another. So sometimes it's good just, you know, follow that path that's kind of been laid out in front of you and don't resist and work hard and stay focused. I also thought it was cool that he brought up the story of leaving Mindy a bears Gig, because we rarely talk about how gigs end on this show.

It's all about how did people get the gigs, you know, when many called him and wanted to go in a different direction, and that's not a rare thing, you know. Some artists do it often. And at least she called him, because sometimes you just won't even get a call and you'll see a tour on an artist website and you just won't be on it. I've had it happened. This business is brutal sometimes and it can change at anytime. So you kind of have to be ready and aware of that, and it's a tricky thing as a sideman too, because I want to provide is creative, a space for the artist that I'm working for as I possibly can, and sometimes that might mean I'm no longer the right guy for the GIG, you know. So it's devastating every time it happens, but at the same time it's sort of part of my job to accept that and to be cool with it. It's pretty common that you know you'll be used in the band, you'll be in the band but you won't be used on the record, or you'll do a record with somebody and they have their own band, so you're not going to go out with that. Some times it can be financial and that's always a drag, but sometimes it's just creativity and where that artist wants to take the next record or wants to take the next look of the band, or or you name it. It's a tricky thing, but the best thing, I think, is to not take things personal and make sure you watch your back and you have a long list of people that you can call and clients that you work for so you can keep your career moving forward. CARTAGE is a term that I had to learn what I got here. It's basically a local roady. Some guys will come and get your stuff and take it to your Gig set it up and then do it on reverse when you're done, and other companies will store your gear for you and just show up wherever you tell them and kind of depends on what how much money you want to spend, and it's a backsaver absolutely if you can afford it. backlining gear basically means renting gear. On smaller tours they will rent a lot of the gear like amps and all the heavy stuff, and they'll rent it in each town that you play. So you should have a backline list of gear that you prefer to use and it's advisable to keep it common because most backline companies will have like the most common and popular brands. But if they don't, then you never know what you're going to get, especially when you're in eastern Europe or Russia or, you know, South Africa, some of the places that don't have access to really obscure you know, brands of gear. They'll have fender and ampeg you know, or not even that. Sometimes you know. I've had them. I've had to make the best of some really bad care before, but you just do what you got to do. Watercolors is a smooth jazz channel on serious Xm. I believe it's channel sixty six and I couldn't believe that PAT kips in New York was the most obscure name that he could think of when, you know, talking about backline stuff. I've heard a lot of people say that throughout my life and I've always noticed because I was born at Vassar hospital in Poughkeepsie, New York. Star. Wow, you've made it to the end. I'm hoping it's because you completely enjoyed yourself and are now filled with knowledge and inspiration to move forward with your dreams. If that is the case, and you would like to stay informed of new episodes, live events in general news, please go to dive Bar rockstarcom and sign up for the mailing list. If you have any questions, comments, corrections or complaints about anything you here on the show, please email me at fan mail at dive Bar Rockstarcom and you may even end up on the show. We at the dive Bar Rockstar podcast with all of our hearts. Thank you for listening and remember it's all about dreams.

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