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The Dive Bar Rock Star Podcast
The Dive Bar Rock Star Podcast

Episode 14 · 1 year ago

Gary "Gig" Grantham- We’re Not In The Music Business, We’re In Show Business (TLR- Experience The Eagles’ Music, Castle Entertainment Group)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Creative director, artist representative, manager, guitar player, singer, Gary “Gig” Grantham, dives deep into the world of tribute bands. He talks about the origins of his band TLR- Experience The Eagles Music and his concept of what makes a good tribute band. He describes the show “Dark Desert Highway" that he’s created which takes the tribute show to a whole other level. He reminisces about his travels in Asia and shares his thoughts about the future of music during the pandemic.

TLR- Experience The Eagles Music

https://tlreagles.com

Do you love audiobooks? You can get athree thirty day trial membership to AUDIBL DOTCOM by visiting audivil trial,dotcom's last dive bar rocks star. They have thousands of audio Boov titles aswell as podcast, guided wellness programs, theatrical performances, Alis,comedy and exclusive audible originals. You won't find anywhere else, get yourfree trial membership, an audible trial, dotcom, flash DIVAR ROCKSTAR welcome to the Diebar rock star.Podcast e show exploring the lives of professional musicians of all typestouring, musicians, recording artists, songriders engineers, barbands weddingbands and anyone making their living in the music industry, whether you'vedreamed of being a professional or you already are one. This is the PODGAS foryou, I'm your Os Eric Bans, and I hope that you not only find someentertainment here, but also some helpful tips, trade secrets and ideasthat will help you achieve your dreams. Today we are going to take a deep diveinto what is a pretty big industry here in southern California. TributemansCalifornia is credited by some as the origin of the tribute banned.Supposedly there was a band and calibases who was playing a club anddecided to do a night of only Beatles music and it took off and now hasbecome a huge scene here in California and all over the world. Actually, asyou will soon learn. My guess today is a major part of that tribute scene here,in Los Angeles, he's creative director and artist representative at the Castle,Entertainment Group located in the heart of Burbank's media district. Heis producing director at three thousand miles off Broadway productions and hehas worked in literally every capacity of the tribute field, for instance,he's percussionist currently for Dejavu, a musical retrospective of Crosbie,still's Nash and young, and he's the performing manager of tlr experiencedthe eagles music, which is where I met him, because I used to sub quitefrequently either as done Henley or Randy Meisner and Timothy Beichmitt in the band they debute I year, twothousand and they've been going strong ever since they were featured on accessTVs, the world's greatest tribute band show and they've played all over thecountry and several other countries a couple of Hem. I went to such as Canada,Asia, Mexico, Bermuda, the Philippines, Shrilanka Singapore, Malaysia and allover Australia, so they have definitely accomplished a lot if you're, if youthink that tribute bans are for bars, then Yo. ' E you're you're,horribly wrong. If you're interested in getting into a Dreeman, this is goingto be an extremely informative show for you and hopefully entertaining if I'vedone my job, who knows- and you should also look out for his new podcast,which will be coming out next year early next year, called tribute talk,which I can't wait to hear myself. So please welcome and enjoy myconversation with Gary Gig Grantham. I met you subbing with your band. Thethe long run experienced the eagles titscalled. Well, it's we've become tlrexperience the eagles music and I can go on. I I'll take twenty minutes totalk about why that was. But it was a couple of reasons Um. First of all, oneof the pet peeves I have about people starting tribute bands. Is They don'tdo the homework and they don't find out reeither. They don't find out who'susing a given name or they don't care right, and I understand how thathappens. You know people guys they have regular jobs, they're,making a living doing something else. They say: Hey. We love this music. Wegrew up with this music it'll, be recreational, we'll play on weekends.Mad Te get a few gigs. I know a couple of people at a club. I can get us somegigs and they start playing and they getdecent right and they start developing an audience and they start gettingbetter and better bookings and then they're into it. Two or three years andthey've made a place for themselves in the market with that name and they'rekind of stuck with it. But then guys like US realizing you know we were thelong run way back on Onine, teen, N, Ninety nine and then a group crops uphere in this state and then a group crops up here in this state and I'm notgoing to call the guys out. But the ran is, is that it causes so much confusionamong bookers and buyers and agents and...

...marketing people and most deffensivelyto audiences and again I didn't go on and on about how many times I've had to chase down a marketing person that is advertisedour group either playing something somewhere, wheror not or worse thanthat advertised someplace that we areplaying but then taken it upon themselves rather than to use th theapproved materials that I furnished them wer. I go out and grab stuff,that's out there, so it ends up being hey we're playing there, but you've gota photo. That looks like our dads and video of another band altogether andit's it's such a disservice. So rigtthat's aroundabout way of gettingthe point of we are more now officially going by Tlr Goaans, the eagles music,and we also have a a licencing agreement in place that Ican get into more as well. That um is something we're really proud of, but wealso kind of agreed with eagles management as to what we would becalled really yeah yeah. That's interesting! That's a's! By the way, Ithink toour is a safe way to go as well 'cause. It is still mean we're stillgetning getting there and you know every show. I say, and I stand thereafter first couple of songs. You know first couple of songs in that's Enyeah.I start barking, you know and explaining to people that hey we're thelong run H W. You know you will be San Clorida Erwill, be the long run,you'd Beseni. U Know R, no, actually we're tlr and I explain the whole thingkind of then make it kind of work to our advantage and Um and to the fun ofthe show. But yes, that's the way we match. Yes, we yeah, and that was my. This is myfirst venture into tribute stuff. You know I wasrecommended by Rudy who's R cutit Ino iness. He was on a different pot cast. You canlisten to a different episode, but h Um, but yeah and it was it was really cool.I started as the Don Henley, which I really enjoyed case I didn't have toplay base. It was like Bas, was my day job and ooh. Now I got to be a singerand just do the thing play some keyboards and percussion and all thisstuff, but then you guys- and I dowrop- I know remember that I think that wasdown in Huntington beach was it was the first was that the first show that youplayed with us Sas Gosh N, know what it Wi O. Remember, honestly, no, I a bunchof show for a couple of years. You actually performed three roles in a wayin in our group, because you did the Henley stuff, the henleyvocals, whichyou did really well and you were able to Yeh play keys and percussion andsome I think we putyouput ye behind the drum I di Jman as well one timeinteresting story, but then also as yea welet, but also as base player. You played youkind of perform in an eagles show. You perform the role of two iconic baseplayers. That's very true. You know stratmt B Schmidt and RandymizeyeahYeah I Tandi came to one of our shows. You know that kidding I mean this isincredible: 'CAUSE, that's! That's kind of it seems to me, and now I've workedwith other tribut Iwas in Bostics, for a while and and I did a stvnxits likekind of once, your in and the phone started ringing. Oh, you do tributes soKay you want to do this hene you want to, but it seems to me that having thatsort of affirmation from the actual artist is is the key to everything youknow to be sort of approved. You know getting that stamp of approval yeah,and it's that you were working with managementon your your name seems like yeah and it it's it's S, it's it's something I Ilike talking about and I want to talk about sometimes, and then I also knowthat contractuoally there's language I have to use like I can't Um. You knowwhen say when promoters find out and they say Ooky can we say you knowupproved by Orororpiand. I say no, you can't say endorsed by, in fact, if wecould really avoid saying that altogether, it's more of a legal thingthan it is a something that we promote to the general public. So maybe you coan say like toleratedByo we ell the Ales and theywere like allright, but what it does do um. You know an interesting question. Of course,that comes up sometimes among audience. Members for tribute shows, but also, Ithink, it's interesting for people that are either already doing them or peoplethat are thinking about starting them. They wonder what what are the gallaties surroundingmaking money playing somebody else's music rig. I mean you know as not onlya singer and song, a song writer, but also a producer. You know that ifsomebody's going to make money off of your copyrighted material, you expectto be paid for it right. Absolutely and...

...that's you know, and that's what whatthe performing arts re organizations the pros are for sn, BMI, CSK and Um. You know some people often wonder well,how are you guys, legal or you're, just sort of flying under the radar rightand Um? You know. We know that it's incumbent upon illegally, it'sincumbent upon venues to to have those those rights management agreements inplace with those pros right Um. But what a lot of people don't know that inthe case of the Eagles Catalogue, it's not governed by thet matrials, notgoverned by seasack or ASCAP, or BMI. Really, it's handled by a group calledGlobal Music Rights. That is a subsidiary of Asaf entertainment whomanages the Eagles it's so irbing asoff created global music rights. So whatyou know what people get with with with Tlr is you know any byer any venue any event,especially events that might be private. You know or held at a hotel. You knowwe still want to know that we're doing we're performing this music legally,they get the reassurance that they hire us. You don't even have to think aboutit anymore. You know right, you know and and that's kind of Thascol. That is akind of a net. It's a neat feeling because we can sort of you know. Wewent along for so long thinking, all right, we'rewe're anit's polite to sae,we're borrowing, lung music, Rightigbut, there's a heartof you, especially when you start you're wondering am I stealing this youknow? Would they N hissed about this? And, of course they would be. You know, but I know very few tributes anywhere have. I think thatlittle bit of a you know feather and and Damna waernthat yeah that's awesome, it'd be nice to get in a room with you know, Boston,an just ask them about tr a have you had the chance like. Do they care and N,I'm sure it's different from Artistan and again it's true and we've had theopportunity like, for example, I think H, I feel like the eagles would carethey just do those kind they do yeah they do. I mean you know I've. You knowyou meet guys W. I've met donfelder and Timo T B Schmit, and you know you youat some point you want to let these guys. No, you know you 'cause, youkindo want to let 'em know you are such a fan of what they do right and theyhad this impact in inspiration upon you that you want to say, im Investim, so,invest in what you do and Y A, and you know Yo 're you're, concerned abouthow's that going to be met. You know I just kind o go wakehid. You bother menow and stop Ann. I get your number cause, I'm goingto sue you. I know exactly ide no Y, you know Bill Werel Yeah! Well, youknow Billayea, absolutely World Class Guitar player and I and fantastic guy-and he has you, know on and off been with Tlr for for years and he's still aguy will call upon from time to time to do the donfelder role. Well, he he gotto know felder better than any of us, because you Kno Bill went on to bl LeeGuitar Player for America for a number Er with them and he would bump intoFeld her and no and then got to the point where felder would just say: Yeahe Stop Being Meyou, know right, but but I mentioned that RandyMeisner came to to a show. Nd Wehad just returned from the second time wewe went on a tourtos Southeast Asia. You went with us the first time, yesand h. We got to get into that, but we had just gotten back and we had twoshows at the Alportel here in the Noho Arts. District he're, in Los Angelesand uh so and bill, was playing with us and we we had done the first sh two showsin one day, so we'd done the matinee and we were about ten minutes fromcurtain on the evening. Show and bill comes down in the dressing room andsays: Hey everybody come over here, hit guys Sai. I don't want to freak anybodyout, but rany misners here and that's not anything that you Aye, you don'texpect. You know a guy, they are't gon, that's what he's going to say. IASGONtto come in and say, oh by the way, thereis an eagle or a former eagle,yeandwhat hes yeah. I just met Em upstairs in the lobby. WSO. We, youknow we're crapping and gym W. The baseplayer, especially, is you knowjust soiling his diaper causebut. You know we get on stage Jim identifieswhere he is and he gets to then dedicate and perform wel. Take it tothe limit for N to Randy. Well, we were doing because it was a controlledenvironment. In a theater we had, you...

...know more enhanced production and wehad our full video going and so in those videos we do have some referencesin some shots and so forth. Angnhe t the original guys right and I afterward.We got of course edoing pictures and we just want to talk to. You Know Randyand it's the first time he had ever been to a tribute show and literally heor his people saw it advertised on the Marquis a couple of weeks prior to thatand just decided to go, I said: Hey, can I ask you what Ou Kn was like to?You know just listen to the music and see like images of yourself and the Gus,and you just said, with an absolute warm, almost just like boyor smile onhis face, just prot back memories. You know so in that moent it was sort ofwow. We, we kind of think that we made hem happy yeah yeah. Well, you knowit's interesting. The first time that I ever saw a tribute band. I I don't evenknow if I should mention who they are considering the story about to tell,but but um it was a journey troope banned.I remember like the first couple of songs, I'm like mm. Well, you knowthey're not journey, but Y, a the dumbers, a little dis or thatyou know, L K. You know t picking the band as as musicians often do by thethird time I'm just like. Oh my God, I love journey. You know what I mean.It's like it doesn't even matter because your brain just fills in anysort of weaknessiness and they weren't awful by any means. Believe me yeah,you know, but you know, I'm a musician so and we've heard those records somany times an no matter. What, if you're a fan of that music and you're,going to see a tribuband you've heard that music meanytime? It's notnecessarily about being the perfect imitation of that band. Oh Yeah Iu knowit's just about honoring the those tunes and and doing you know,pobviously. You don't want to screw them up, but yeah. Well, you know, Ithink you know there are a lot of things that make or break a goodtribute act and I think, depending on who it Isattribute to it can bedifferent things more example. If you go to see a beetles tribute, show youkind of there's sort of this requisite need and expectation that you're goingto see John Paul, George and Ringo r and the gear is going to be right andall that kind of stuff doesn't have to be. That way I mean there is that greatgroul. You know that Willi Place, G ABF and those guys are fantastic. You know,but then there's also the Fab for wo, who you think you're seeing the Beatleson MI yeah. You know I you know my my respect for what they've done and whatthey decided to do all those years ago. Basically, this the mission statementthey created, you know we're going to just we're going to sound like therecords, we're going to make the mistakes that were oon the records andwe're going to create that experience for people. So I mean one of my manytribute pet peeves is you know like tag lines like such and such the Premiere Tribute towhatever r you know the the ultimate tribute to this, or you know I goes on, but they are last. I checkedthe fat four, the ultimate tribute and they're about the only guys that Ithink sort of earn that Monicor. I live up to it, yeah yeah, but I mean back tothe idea the things that make er break tribute or make them successful from an audiencepoint of view. I know for me if I'm watching one one of the things is just having that feeling that I know they'renot journey or I know they're, not theeagles or I know they're not lead Zepplin, but they could have been and when I feel that way, it's not thatI'm! I don't have to be watching guys that look exactly the same or soundexactly the same yeah, but I want an essence right. You know h andabsolutely and that again achieving that essence is a different taskdepending on what it is. Well, it's interesting that you made thatdistinction, because I I look at tribute ban sort of in those twocategories as well and like what I really enjoyed about being in the longrun, was that first of all, it's the eagles, sothere's no look to achieve really you're right. The Eagles stood there n.They still, they stand there and sing their songs. Yeah. You know it's it's!You don't go for the antics in the in the PYRO. You know what I mean it'sjust about the music, and that was so much who I am yeah yeah versus there'sothers like the FA for where you know guys are in wigs and they're in crazycostumes, and some people are literally in character of that character. Youknow, or the band is pretending to be that as they go out there, which for me not not so comfortable and just the waythat you present it is that as well y you're you're not there to to imitateyou know. You know what I mean: E're, really there to try to nail the musicand give you that Good Eagle's experience musically exactly, and Ithink that you know the hallmark of our particular groupand th. If we get one compliment or or a bit of praise consistently frompeople, it's simply that, my God, you...

...guys seem to be having so much funplaying this rigtand. It is absolutel He r, absolutely the truth. Youpopulate your stage with guys that are superb players and great guys to bewith first of all, that's going to be fun, yeah period and then you'replaying a catalogue of music that you love and that's in your sinews y. Ah,you know nd and so that when you're doing it right all of a sudden, it's soresonant. It's Kinda like wow, I'm part of playing this music right now, but italso sounds right. Yeah there's this weird thing that happens,and you hope that that transcends you know the footlights and and theaudience thinks that. But you know I think, that XA exactly as you say whenyou know when we start playing a song, we hopethat we're playing it as faithfully as we are capable of of doing, but thenthe rest of it is honestly kind of sharing the individual personalities ofthe people on stage right. You know Chris Subkuich, who does who does Joebasically in in our band, I switch as we call him. He doesn't look like JoeWalsh. No, he doesn't sound like Joe Wall. She doesn't act like Joe Wash orparticularly play like Joe, but what he is on and off stage in Tlr. Is thatlevity that clown? He has a buoyancy and an energy and a fun and sometimesan unpredictability about him, and we give him a little more latitude in thatway too, just as the eagles did Joe, so he heals that slot right. You know inmy case, I'm the game show host. I'm the Gager stands in the middle andtalks little more than the other guys do and says. I'm Kinda going to be yourtour guide. You know and and that's what Glen did you know. So that wasanother thing that was a little intimidating, a firsis like there's.Each person has their time where they h have to get to get to. They have that Timewe need those talk.Spots do and you get xa, but it's great. It adds to theeducational aspect, like I learned so much just from each person's littleSNIPPIC 'cause. Speaking of of you know, Eagles related people, Umandswitch. He tells a story about meeting Jack temption and you know lotsof knowledge that I didn't know you know it just adds this whole other elementtof the show that also is not cheesy. You know what I mean yeah, it's it'scool, yeah, Walk Away with knowledge, as well as that good feeling of wowthat as cream music, yeah and and those spots are absolutely purposeful. Youknow, because you know if I I'm such a I'm a Nazi when it comesto tributes, I'm Anazi about a show being a show right at it's like job one.As far as I'm concerned, I've said so many times that Inin the tribute industry we're not in the musicbusiness we are in, show business we are taking. We are borrowing acatalogue of music and framing a piece of entertainment around it and thatkind of separates the men for the boy from the boys. Fror me in terms of whattribues really need to be and the ones that are successful versus the onesthat are not necessarily right. You know so, anyway. Those you know thosewell placed talk spots Um in our particular show are absolutelynecessary, almost always necessary for transitional purposes. E 'cause, youknow you've got like sixteen guitars on store, that's what I was going to go tonext, like the the tech, it's a very tech, intensive show as well, yeah andand a lot of things have to go right. You know we all been there when they did yeah kN as a player, and it like you know, I'mmixing my own monitormix on my phone. You know and I've got inners and youknow wireless based of whatever you bring.You know, there's a lot to it. There's a video going on we've got V, got aninstrument in the Damn tuner and that's all you have to bring yea your B. Well,that's jastered yeah! Well, I was going to tell thestory t aout playing the one time I played drums because I had justpractice and Pragin. You know I played drums in high school or whatever, butI'm not a drummer but M, but I was excited you know for for theopportunity. And what do you do? M A witchy woman?What's right, bfore that, oh, we did take it es wic Yo live yeah, yeah andsomewhere take iteasy Berto your drummer Yo Rit guyaccidentally t turned to click off. I I had that was going to be my same thing.You know because I can quit is, but I really need that click 'cause, I'm nota Tapo guy. I'm not like this Isand I've been playing with the record andto a click ye for like a month every...

...day to making sure I don't screw thisup an in the middle of take it easy Ti.Click goes out and I'm like okay. Here we go, you know, and then we got tatransition into the next tune and I'm just taking off Tampo wise 'cause. I'mI'm thinking about the lyrics and I'm freaking out about the thing and likeeveryone's turning around and and like you know, and it's a pack theater andUm. So it doesn't always go right, but you know, but it's a pretty it's cool.It makes it a big show, though you know, and just the way that it feels on stageand the way that it comes across. I mean y. You guys aren't just acoverbandthat ir it playg in a bar. It is the show it comes across yourattitude towards it, yeah yeah, and I'm glad you say that 'cause I. I alwayswant that to be the case, and you know I. I really am a broken record when itcomes to that and when I'm talking to anybody about- or they maybe you know,speak to me as a part of what I do Um is do some artist representation, at'spart of what our office does and booking and show development andproduction, and I actually love being that third eye guy. Sometimes it's hard,as you know, you know, you've been an m D, You you know, Y, you, you you, youcan't turn the third eye off on stage. Sometimes eveand you wanted tonee theplayer you know, but at the same time I enjoy that aspect of the work. When I'mwatching and evaluating something you know yeah exactly and then somebodymight say well what do you think you know and is, is marketable or is thisbookable or will you represent it? I have to be truthful, sometimes and say you know: You've, you've, surroundedyourself with really good players, um we're all capable of playing the music.But what you need is to make this into a show, and that may mean choosing people that are performancedriven coming at it from a performance point of view, not necessarily just achops point of view right. That's not what it's necessarily about: Yeah Yeah,exactly yeah n. As to what I was saying before about wigs and stuff, that kindof goes with the artist you're. Choosing too you know you're, not gonna. You know I mean the Beatles thing isone of those that might go either way like you mentioned, but they definitelyhad a look and they have eras of look. You know and y o have sergeant pepperand, like you kind of need to look like that yeah, you know. So it's not to putthat side of it down. You know I was just I was jus. I enjoy the eagles.Where there's not you know it's more about the music and stuff, but well andthere's you know one could easily make a case for unless other than devout diehard eagles fans.There are plenty of people that would not, even in the Hadi of the band, beenable to pick one of the guys out of lineup or Ne Ude if they passed them onthe street. They weren't like John Paul George and Ringo Right. You know and MGod. I remember Um Wentim Timothy Beschmidt was about to launch his solow tour of his own stuff. His expandotour, I was invited down to therehearsal by farmer Chris Farman Unicrese Dchris was Chris, did somework with? U Prior to you coming in starting work with us, he was. He wasmostly a Bas sub, but he came from a great. You know like you and like someof THY guys. You know, unlike me, had a great resume spent like twelve yearswith the beach boys and so on anyway. So he ended up playing with Timothy andwent on that tour and he played both keys and played Basewhen Timothy PlayedGuitar and so on. So it was a farmer who invited me down to h their finalrehearsal fos, where they invited in some friends and family and UH. I walkin and h Timothy there, a the microphone wasjust a slight break, you know, and he says hi I'Ntimothy. I said I'm Gari Ookay, thanks for being here, other players were like Hanklinterman, Herman Matthews, you know, and but Ijust I ended up sitting l e on the floor on the couch or something likethat, and you know over here it they're on core and I'm sitting talkingchatting up this guy, just friendly guy and Sa Yeah, I'm Gary and he said I'mDohy and H. I say: Oh Hey, you know, what's your connection to to tthins? AhYou know I my partner and I have like a you know: Li e. You Know Duo, act andwe've just kind o known these. You know guys for years, and so they finishedthe rehearsal and we were just all Kindof Takin, somepictures together. Just for for grins and and I drive away- and I say Oh, dowe banal from America, I partner my partner and I Jerry Beckley. You know,I think, a crap and I get a chance. Then latespeciallyafter bill whereel started working with...

...them. You know and just go to someshows of their shows when they were in town and hang out with them backstage,and I the first time that I did that I got to say to do I'mso embarrassed. You know, here's how I met you and he was so gracious andsaying you know back when we were doing it there, Wasnan m TV or VH, one, nobat. I knew what the Hell we looked like. You know and t was kind of that.Exactly right. I always say like that's back when ugly people could ton bands, I might h ve had more of a chance Baut.Then I don't know sback before you. You know you had tohave a look nidiokilled, the radio yeah. Now that's what you and I have incommon one F, one of the many things you know when you're this pretty yeah yw t'Syou just got to go God. N Oadio only have a face that was made forpitose yeah. I work in looking yeah. We are powll shoot people if people only knewI know wel. So so was this: your first tributeband t it actually was yeah and I at that time we started this band.Twenty years ago, N Nineteen ND, Ninety nine and the story was you know that some guys that I didn'tknow we're sort of doing a cover thing at Um. I think they would do it. Maybe weeklyat some club in the valley that no longerexists and they would do just a a whole bunchof different things, but they wanted to do it well, theyw're all good musiciansand good singers, and they liked harmony. So apparently they did ahandful of eagles tunes and a Ven. An agent came and saw them, and a guy thatI still you know, worked to this day no andwork with, and he kind of looked at him and hesaid afterward well, you know if you guys, would concentrate on anddo an eagles thing. I I could do something with that and he told Thee.Then you know, I guess bandleader. You know, there's actually money in thistribute thing, so they decided to retool thehad one guy in the band. Thatwas just a singer and he when they decided to shift intofocusing on eagles. He said: No, it's not real ly. My thing, you know I'm m adifferent kind of rock singer and besides, I don't play an instrument andhe said so. I I think I'm going to bow out. You know, do my own thing, no hardfeelings no offence, he said, but I know a couple of guys and I had anacoustic duo at the time with a guy that had been a base playerin an original ban and he at was a really serious effort and we had someradio play and stuff, but it was a big harmony band, so we KINDOF got reachedout too and we both met. The the bandleader and the three of us sankthrough some stuff, a D we thought well. This feels pretty good. We got a ED,lend and so on, but I thought man a cover band, you know and when I startedtalking about some of the numbers, some of the dollar figures that were withinreach out there. If you got good right, so we came together N to talk about it andwe decided we're going to do this and we brought the band together, all sixguys in maybe the second or third week of December of nineteen. Ninety ninetalked about the songs, decided what the initial rehearsal list would be:divied up the vocal and the instrumental parts and said: okay,everybody go away, get through the holidays, N, like three nweeks or so inJanuary, we're going to come back and we're going to start rehearsing for thefirst three months we werehearsed two to four nights. A week we multitrack recorded every rehearsal. Well, every I mean just mie up likelike it was a show mhm and we'd Rehearse for three or four hours, everybody, but two or three of the guyswould go home and they would disect and microscope. Everything Wha was donewhile send out notes. We'd, take him and we'd try to be better. The nextrehearsal yeah T en. Finally, after three months, we decided to do a GigNice, it's intense stuff, there's a lot going on: U O ns playing and singingit's a you know, big band lots of guitars yeah, and that's one of thereasons that it was worth doing to all the people that were initially in it.It's like well, if we're going to do this at all, why not choose somethingthat is challenging and not everybody can do well. But more importantly- andthis is one of the things that I always tell people if you're going to chooseto do a tribute- and you want to do it on a high or professional level- ches aban choose to emulate the music of a band that had a has a deep, wealthycatalogue rides where you can put together at minimum. A ninety minuteshow that is packed with songs. That people want to hear Raotherwise at bestyou're going to be an opener, which is...

...another reason for artist to you knowfeel flattered when they have isn't a con accomplish ment to have a tributeban to your to your band, know well, itwas funny I mean back to America when be, I think it was before bill was inthe band, but bill's dad has for many years been there sound engineer, and sobill already had been, I think, out on the road with them as Attech and so on.So we started an America tribute and I gess Bill. One time I think JerryBeckley said just you know said: Hey hohhe was with the long run and he saidhey how things going with the long run. You know and great he said there oughtto be a tribute to us, and he said well is a matter of Fah and honestlyspeaking, America was great. They gave us discret track board recordings W. They gave us a high resolution copy oftheir logo so that I could tweak it and create the logo that looked similar totheirs. But ourr ban was called a band with no name and which has been storedby anybody Ao. I mean that an tvy but anyway, but that's yeah, that'sthat's I. I always say that sort of job won when you're going to start atribute unless it's just man, I love Green Day or I love the gyn blossoms.You know I want to play theire music, even though I know people are going toknow two tunes right, we're going to do a medley of their hit. So how many guitars are on stage I have counted and when it's in fullforce, I mean there've been times when. Obviously the three guitar players have to havemultipple multiple guitars o know. We have four CUSTI guitars on stage. Well, I don't even mean just forAcousti Guitars. I mean for Cos to Getar lines that may be interchangedwith. You know different instruments gon in Three Electric Guitar Lines. So just among the three guitar playersalone, there will a they're seldom fewer than twelve h guitars there. Now,sometimes you add: We've added a Banjo, a Mandolin, a petal steel rn. Then, asa base player you're going to have your your primary ats, but you might, Idon't know you might have a fie string, annifor string or you may just have aback up right. So there's a rather couple so yeah, it's offit often reallyis fourteen. Sixteen ours. That's a lot to carry around man. Yeah GS, yeah, lot of set up yeah sound checks. I Know Tu, especially for the basee. I haveone cable like I know well, Ou know, except I think that the you sound checkactually ones worth starting to check right and especially when we got ourown engineer yeah. It goes pretty fast right. U K, ow that'Sfr, which, as yousaid earlier, complete control, independent Pere ontrol over yourinyourmix yeah, which Isrigt because then it's saved the next time, I'llpull it up as long as nothing's changed it's you know, y a s tweget a littleand everything's great yeah. I mean it's, it's pretty great and you I meanyou have to be on inyours for a good like that anyway, just because you knowall the singing. Yes, that's the whole thing! Yeah! U Kn W absolutely, and youknow I mean more and more tribute. Bands have gone to complete innersystems, Yeah Front of House engineers love it because Yeah God, the stagevolume is just rig so heavily montired in monitor engineers. Don't necessarilylove it because for k you know, bands like us and a growing number of bandswere just all self contained. You know fly that rig everywhere. We go, youknow and it it's a and sometimes that's to Shrilanka an inthe Philippine exactly or Australia were we didn't get to goon, I know, but that rig didn't go so ellin Chriango. I that right we had to that. We had a ail we had to go to. Wehad to run it through an actual monitor, guy's board. ND. Yes, yes, m. TheWonderful Engineer: Milinda is his name Yeah and e. We just we didn't take ourown engineer, the next uh the next time. We actually I mean he. He really wasgreat and he saved our asses on that show. Yeah Hat e had that was so damnstressful yeah, Oh my God, yeah 'cause. It was down in the wire rock and Romeyeah, I know, but you know I remember this. You gotyou got this, this cherry little featured spot because yeah you, youwere tasked with singing the song that I wou, we that was required e Oder Yeahand they said- and they said this the next year too, everybody in Shilankeand the anyw everywhere in South East Asia. There like then want to hear theGlenfri Sola tune, the one you love right and I don't know if I've everplayed a slower song in a rock and roll. I think it was like what was the l Saxentro about this tempobut, but we start...

...that they give us a different saxplayer in every town and the and soon as that interest started it just peopleerupted yeah. It's like they sat politely through like life in the fastlane already gone. Take it easy, Ote, California, but when that came on yeahyeah and it seemed like they, they wanted mostly ballads, like they lovedall the slow stuff 'cause. We alted new kid in town. I think yes, but glenfryhad also just died, probably six months before that yeah yeah, that's true,which was something else I wanted to talk to about like how did that affecttwo questions? Really? How did that affect bookings and things like that, aD and does it feel a little more important, almost what you're doing'cause now you're carrying on the legacy of a guy who youll you'll, neversee him? Do it again, you Kno yes, and it absolutely first of all. Yea,yes to to both parts of that question are both o this questions. Initiallythe phone started ringing and agent said: okay, everybody wantsyou now. I can remember our phone rang more Um, you know David Brighton's phone David,bright, ow does o right. You want Booy, you go to David Right, you ask the gamein town. Yes, there are, you know six other eagles tributes. Just youknow you know in California, you could throw a rock at and Ra one probably soso you know our our phone calls were probably divided a little bit more, butit definitely ups the bookings and then, as far as the sense of significance Iremember playing on the anniversary of Glen'Sdeath. I think it was the fouryear anniversary- and I remember taking a moment of course, to acknowledge that,and you know again back to being a show. You choose the way you acknowledge thatso that it's significant and it brings the room together and creates ae morecommunal feeling and that people are reminded- and you know we- we did saythat you know it's never lost on US- that the reason we have this job is because back in nineteen seventy M,a couple of guys, Don and Glen were PLA were part of lenderonnstaft's backingband and they got on so well and said we we should do our own thing. You know,Glen started the band and Don has never acknowledged anything other than youknow. I it was glenebannd hit was his idea and boy when he died. Um, weprobably all remember that Henley said more than once. I don't know thatyou're going to see the eagles anymore 'cause. I can't really conceive aneagles without glenfry right and then they made this great choice. That'sworking for them now bringing Deacon Fry in who was what twenty four at thetime R and then vinc Gill in Scil, I mean yeah perfect. I know you know, butbut boy it takes, it is taking two guys yeah to fill glun shoes. I used tocowrite with Jeddriscmidt Timothy beachmitth'sdaughter, that's right and remember that yeah and it was interesting.ECAUSE though I met her, I I didn't think of myself as an eaglesfan per se. I wasn't like Oh your dad. Is this amazing rock star? You know Iwas just kindo like, Oh, so your dad's Rockstar, that's cool, he's like yeahand- and it was over time, I've just kind of you know just being around it,and I ' like Oh yeah that song and ony on that song and then Oh yea, that songand eventually I'm like. No, I guess I am an Uagles fan like when you breakdown just the music and the you know by Kno man. That is the same thing aactually that happened with me when we started the man and began to rehearse.I didn't even realize yeah how much that music had seeped into my being one of our guys now still the newestmember of the Bandlarry Hampton who is currently M, you know the first chairin the felte role, so he's the felder leaden kind of guy. He said to me halfa dozen times he MHE said well, for example, there was a time last fall. II think it was when I got larengidis and I could barely squeak out anythingand I had to just turn and we had a show and I had to see Larry. Can youjust sing basically everything that I sing priht and he could, even though hemay never have had before, and it's that y? AH, every lyrical twist andturn and every grace note and every stylistic part of the delivery was inthat's another thing. Man I mean that I think you you' got to experience this too.When you, when you see tribute, shows, say wow I mean Y. I sometimes wonderhow sometime Ho, how guys don't hear some of the niances that are there,whether it's just the step up to a note or the fall off of it or even thepronunciation of something or the cadence of something I think Adyou knowit's a tough gig. You know, that's yeah,...

...it's not you know, switch, would sayit's not a toy for tots rigtbut, you know, and if it wasn't,everyone would be doing it yeah and you know that's the thing. I I still one ofthe things that amazes me. If you h'd asked me ten years ago, Ey, where doyou think the tribute scenes going? I would have said Ah that Wayis cresting,I love it, been a part of it and it hasn't. It's still, there's a lot offorce behind that wave. You know and El you know I was GOINGTA, bring it up early Erwhen we were talking about ging Fridaying, but so many people died andunfortunately that's kindof good for the tribue that you can't see printsanymore. You can't see David Bo anymore Y, know and, like you brought U DavidBrighton, like he's a guy, if you're going to pick David Bowey, you have tohave the outfits and you have to have the you know, that's so much of what it isand you go see the show and it's it's it's entertaining you K, ow, it's it's!If you're a bowy fan, you're Goinna like yeah and it's all you have nowyeah, so I I wouldn't expect it to to die any time soon. I know think you'reright and I even just on the drive over here. I was thinking about that hbecause it's still a fascinating topic to me. Why why tributes are still goingso strong? And you know the fact that they are is great, because on aprofessional level, man tribute tribute, work and and especialtribute mands that have found a way to work. All the time have created workyeah for so many Nesicians riht. You know, and in some cases now you know Imean being the cat you are and having theresume that you have having done the tours that you've done and knowing somany people that that do you know you know that Gig. You know how that is,but you also know that plenty of times you know hey you're, hired on thisgreat tour, but a lot of what you're getting out of it is a res is isanother thing on your resume: Gettin Aden B, decent pay check, but oftentimes it's like it's a side. Man Pay, because if it's the MARQUI value of itfor you and for your future H, you know guys develop a good tribute band and ifthey are a full time. Member of that group and that group starts getting.You know good gigs. It can pay well yeah. You know I've often thought okaywell 'cause. Now I'm I'm with a pretty good gig. You know who knows: What's:GOINGTO Hapen, we're in weird musical times right now, obviously, but h ifthat Gig ever goes away, I think about who would I call first, you know I hada wedding band that paid really well at the same time too, Oh yeah, but I justcan't you know I have so much fun with you guys, don't cal you first just tobe like anything. You can throw me because the excellermy I'd much ratherdo that and the pay is comparable or sometimes more and that's what I think,people don't understand, really yeah. It's it's a pretty decent job on a showto show basics basis ocertainly it can be. I mean you know, most of the time with tribute showsyou're not doing really long extended tours. You might go out for a couplecouple o weeks at a time you know, and but usually it's not set up in such away. I shouldn't say that sometimes it is, you know. Sometimes it's a little buss and truck. Sometimesyou know you might do that nd, you might get some prerdium and so on. Youknow Um, but h, kind of seasonal as well. I thinksummer's, probably biggest summer is big, but I think that the the workingtribute bans have found a way to work all year round. You know between indoortheatr shows indoor venue shows the outdoor summer, festivals and and OpenAir Shows cruise ships. You know interesting, it's there can bedefinitely money all year all year round. OYEAHTHERE are a lot of us outof work right now, waiting to Eback, O playing shows and touring, and I knowI've had to do whatever. I can do to take my mind off the situation fromtime to time and one of the ways to pass the time is to catch up on somebooks. You've missed. But if you're like me- and you don't love to read, there's another way you can consume.AUDIBLL DOTCOM has thousands of titles to choose from including audio booksabout music production, songwriting, the music business, music theory,instructional, audiobooks and biographies of your favorite musicalheroes. But besides audio books, you can also listen to podcasts, theatricalperformances, alist comedy and exclusive audiooriginals. You won'tfind anywhere else right now. You can get a free, thirty day trial. If youvisit, audible, trial, docom, slash dive bar rock star, that's audibletrial,dotcom, slash, dive bar rock star, and you can catch up on your audioreading. I'd like to take a second to thank youfor listening to the diebar rocks for our podcast as a new pod cast gettingthe word out as a vital part of what it takes to keep the show on the road...

...or off the road has their current case.Maybe if you would like to support the bodgast all you got to do subscribewherever you listen, and if you have an extra minute or two nesle e review, youcan also share and follow the bodcast undeur social media APS. Okay enoughbegging, I hope you're having fun and once again thank you for listening. Well, you are also, though, at least II I haven't talked to you in a minute, but you also are trying to take it to awhole different level with H, dark desert highway, Oh yeah, which is kindof a almost a Broadway, show aspect. I Ihaven't seen it, but it's it's a much more talk about it being a show fromwhat I understand. It's it's much more of a show. We have you know now andsort of our menu of things that we offer. There is yeah th, the kind ofstandard fully rigged electric show. You know, hundred minutes hundred andtwenty minutes. Ninety minutes, whatever maybe Ou, get air bans on baseyeah. Well, man, that's that's! GOINGTA, have te Cost Ping stries a heard bargain, but h so there's that then there's youknow the fully ridged show with media with full media package. You know,there's the unplugged show Tlr Eagles nunlugged, we love doing, did you everdo? No, I never did a whole show, but we did a little set within the se rightright, exactly which is always kind of a sweet thing to do too and yes,there's dark desert highway and there are sort of two versions of dark deserthighway. There's the original version that had sort of a STORYARC, and we have to becareful because it cannot be a musical. You know we you get into the you know:a different sort of rights issue, grand rights. If there's dialogue, if there'sinterplay between two characters and this kind of thing, it falls into adifferent and much more expensive rights category. If you're going tobuild it into something that could say go to Broadway, but short of that wedid have a set designed. We did have a set built. We built a lot of very well Thye kind of kind of verypretty, am well synchronized, visual media and video. So that's kind of acenterpiece. You know there's this there's this desert highway road thatramps up into the screen. So there's a lot of visual haunted. We hired alighting desider to make sure we had very special specific lighting ces and in the first diteration of darkdesert highway. We also were entirely wireless, so we had no microphonestands on stage really at least on the front line. It was all more Broadwaystyle, love Mikes. You know on the face and that allowed for so much morbmobility and use of the stage we could use ramps and entrances. We were, ofcourse, wireless on our instruments, and that was really really a a neatthing to do. We continue to do sort of a hybrid version of that at the sametheater. We're scheduled to do it in October this year, but who knows but it it is, that theater said dowhatever you want to do, but it seems like mostly the audience just wants toget to hear. You guys do the play the music and they want to look at thepretty seth, so there's kind of both of those things.But that being said, I would love to get together. My Buddy Larry Point Exto,whom I've known since I was thirteen years old and is a gosh. I mean he's been an actor andwriter all his life, but now he's a Broadway producer. Having been one ofthe execuing producers on the share show and some other things and um he was the one that we hired back whenwe developed DDH Dar Desert Highway to be director. I wanted somebody whosesensibilities I knew that could be firm with me and everybody else and re guysthat were you know I came from an acting background, so a lot of sie whenit comes to working on stags sort of one- oh one to me, but I, but I have tobe reminded that not everybody does when they're musician, it's Kindo, likeyou, have to tell guys hey, find you're late, orneting yeah, absolutely drawingattention to yourself when there's hourtn'n to be n attention on you, andI somebody else to be that third eye to do that. So he and I have talkhedYousaidman. We both said we'd love to revisit that and then really, as yousay, try to do more with it viit develop it into a really nice piece oftheatere yeah. Before somebody beats us to it. Right I mean it seems thenatural next step of the you know the tribute thing yeah like abigger, bigger thing out of it yeah, I think you're by first tribut, Jackass,oer sure o no, I mean Rudy was here, I've been here every time and hey you.You mentioned the long run. You know that H, he enxact worm shows with thelong run of which you were apart too yeah. I loved hearing that, but what Iwas going to say I think you're, my first native Californian for somereason, you're going to be my...

...fourteenth episode and you're, thefirst native California. So I B, I think, that's also what l a is like youknow, everyone's from somewhere else, but- and I that's true- I'm I'm fromthis town and I loved what rude hy was saying in his episode that you know-and I think it seemed like you agreed, which was they talk about. You Know NewYork, New York. If you can make it there, you can make it anywhere, but hesaid you know: Yo can make it in Lla as into performer and as a musician. Thenyou can make it anywhere. I think there's yeah, there's a lot of truth tothat. I think it's absolutely the same, yeah harder exactly. You know. I alsoloved in that episode, you're talking about how, when you, when you went tothe Madha Mad tea party audition- and you know you beat out fifty five baseplayers and that kind of thing, but no, but I thought about that an I thought:okay, not to diminish that accomplishment,but you take those fifty five guys and thereare. Probably five that are realcompetition go and I m you know I mean Disney as as a company draws greatpeople. But when I talk about that, it's it's that you know. Opportunity is going to favor theprepared Ye. You know, and you even talked about how God I kindof figuredthis audition thing out. I learned how to audition I'm going to be prepared,I'm going to be on time, I'm going to be versatile, I'm going to be a goodguy. You know, and I ri and I think that that's so critical, especially ina town like this, you know even in the tribute business. It's like you know, Ithink more so in the ATRIBUTEO business 'cause, you know, especially with a guylike you, like you, say, you're super particular like we're talking yeahdetails, and I thought I was you know, and I I worked really reallyhard. You know to to make that music happend yeah and it's like even then there's justyou know. I would need to be the guy in the band for a good year to to just getan India yeah. I mean it's hard to remember on any given show if you'reonly doing it once a month or once every two months, like Oh yeah, thatline o Yoa that Lineyo'cause it's it's intense music, it is m, but yeah you d.We have a tendency to to give guys baptisms by fire. We kindo do we justyou know we try to choose. You know great guys and, as you say, man it, itis. I I think you're absolutely right come to think of it it because in the tribute scene, what we do is not unique. There is somebody else who plays thesame music plays it well, their show. Arguably may be as good better or notas good the overall product they're going to invest in playing the music and playing it the way they hear it h and there's always going to be somebodyelse, also younger, a better looking, an and and more and Hungrier righ readyto take whatever chunk of the Pie, you managed to have gotten so you're,absolutely right. I mean I and I always see this too. You've got ta be on stageY R. Your product has to be at least as good as, if not better than anybodyelse's, but yon that man you've got to be great guys to work with you, gotta sweat the right shit as you are developing that businessrelationship with a potential, client or any client, and then you've got tobe good guys to have in the room yeah. You know- and I think about that- Ithought about that when you were talking about auditioning and beatingout those other people, I thought you know Eric Baynes is a guy who walks inthe room. You know he knows how to play his instrument. He's comfortable in theViron Environment. He's got a smile on his face, he's there bringing goodstuff to the room and has our body Larry Hampton in t n Tlr,says hey in addition to everything else, you gotto be able to play well, you'gotto be able to sing. Well, you gotta, you know be aware of the way you look, but youalso got to be a good hang yeah yeah right, and that comes up often you know,but you know. Having said that, though, I appreciate all that, but that'sliterally the only Gig I've ever gotten from an audition, oh well, yeah! That'sright. I mean I gad audition for you sort of in your office, but you knowyou know, speaking of rudy sort of recommending you wasn't it sort ofsomething like he he came in and you know he had been recommended to us andhe was busy with so many things, be it Disney and the corporate shows andeverything that he does and lats and myriad of things and didn't. He say,but I know a cat that would be rer for this and then it's like yeah, I mad theway he told the storyis that you ere, like yeah, and and can you play drumsand Hishad he's like no, I know a guy who can well. Can you play Keaboards?No, but I know this guy wo CA. Do that and you know, can you see all thesesongs n? You know and it's just like everything that you get like. Oh Man,Eric's really yeah do all ththingsyou knower he'she's got some keyboard skills, but you...

...know other than that. He's he's justhe's. Just a singer. Oh, I know Ann if Antastipla and you know that is atestament also. He is a testament to one of the things that you were sayingearlier when we were talking, and that is that you don't necessarily when yousee a tribute show you don't k, always want to see a carbon copy. Ryou, don'talways want to see a look like sound alike and youdefinitely don't want to see a caricature or a cartoon. I don't IbutRudy is a guy that he would sometimes you know he was probably in the in the litany of guys who have done Henley inTlr. He might have been in some ways furtherfrom that sort of hanly type. An a lot of other guys are, but he is so full osoul, yeah and just just the ability to entertain and asstage heisn'n craand all of that Ye that there were people. That said, Ilove Rudy, the best know you'l love it better than the restof us. Btyou know, and that's an interestingthing to me too, because we do have you know we we employ professionals whomake their livings as entertainers and as performers andhis musicians. So it's it's Fi and large guys are going to have multiple,gigs and they're going to t called off to do this or that so you have to havea roster yeah. I have to have a bench and a roster and guys that come in andout, and so we've had a lot of that have a lot of that, which is prettyimpressive for that kind of a thing, because it's so specific, is there athing where Oky, I know all of journey's music, so I'm playing I'msubbing for all of the journey bands, or is it so competitive that peopledon't really do that? You've got sort of a Rostr of people that only playwith what a great wa? Yes and it seems Super Competitive Yeah, and that isabsolutely true Um. We are not. In fact I was talking to agirl. I know tonight earlier today great singer, and we were talking aboutthe fact that Um, you know we our next show coming up next weekend. Um We're going to be under a liabilitybecause our Hemley Guy, who we do have play keys and we do have sit behind thedrum kit- broke a bone in his right hand, so he can't play congus. He can'tdo some of the things that that guy does. As you well know, hen our show sowe're thinking. What are we going to do and we think well, we might bring in astunt guy that we've used before who who actually subs in the Gero Walshrole,but we sometimes had hem, be the Keyboard Guy Percussion Guy. So I wastalking to this. This woman. I now said: Hey a guy I play with you know he playsa guitar and keys and he he's a sub with another eagles show, and there isthat Kindo l, but there's another aspect to it as well, and it goes backto how you hear the music when you're talking about an album like hotel,California, just as one example or any of the other eaqls albums, there's somuch layer in there. For example, there aren't the three guitar parts. Thereare eight yeah. So when you are a tribute band r trying to replicate lesh, reallylayered recordings, you have that task ahead of you whenyou're starting. I. What do we pick out and emphasize I? What do three guitarplayers do Ne Flesh out an ate guitar arrangement right. So how do we weavein and out of that to create the most authentic representation? We're capableof you? Listen to other bands that playthe same music, that you do and you say, ow they're good, but I'm not hearingthe arrangement really what they're choosing to bring to the forefrontdoesn't seem right to me and I've heard the opposite too. I've sometimeslistened to some that play the eagles music and, I said wow. I think theysound more offendic on that song interesting. I gotta KINDOF go toschool on that Ou know yeah and you know very interesting and, as you wellknow too, I I mean twenty years into this. I love listening to therecordings and and so do the other membersof the bad and they listen aSaman. I listen to you know th, the greatest hit's album won and- and Ipicked up some stuff in lion eyes or whatever then not plan I or I hick upstuff and I'm reminded crap I'De, been phrasing that wrong right for the lastthree years: ABS, little newance. But will you also get into live recordingsand like h now you know an, and if you play these songs in any other band,then you have all these numerous arrangements and, like you know, someostuff, like hotel. California, especially I've played that withhundreds of other bands, L Ke, I don't remember now, what's right and wrong,you know on any given show you know. Obviously I studied it Allagain, butthere w like for the first couple of shows, I'v Stuck to the songs, a I'venever played before more than a song...

...like hotel of California, which I'mlike I've Playe, a e jobs. At least I can get through that and then over timeit's like okay. Now I need to go back and really see what I'm doing wronghere. India, but you know I'm kind of a stickler about a lot of that stuffanyways, just in general, you know, and after you get into that it becomes sortof addicting like how much can I make it sound like that they're also gettinginto the mind of whoever produced that record and that's another things likewell. Who Am I to second guess the Guy Who Produced Hotel California Y H, knowwhat I mean like an if I was really prepared. I'd know that guy's nameright now, but I'm a musician as you know, and you're, right and WH.When you were saying a moment ago that okay, there are the records. There arethose beloved studio recordings and that's still a Great Bible that Sha y,the Bible, but then wait a minute we're alive act. What are we? What do weglean what we learn? What can we borrow from the farewell won tour DVD teor thth list goes on. You know anything else we can tell California live thing. Is Sis just as famous a recording as the original that aancaa ending like that'swhat everybody plays you know, so it's it gets it's tricky, so yous got tomake a choice. That's the OD comes down to you and you're you're, the leaderand you're, a great one, Ohl that and you're there to make those. This iswhat the part's going to be more and more. I us like, if SOMsomebody Hete, will you just be MD ND, so I don't have to be, and will you bevocal, arranger sor? I don't have to be. Let me just be the the Nag who getsthis other stuff done and Ra. So you grew up in Ridondo Manhattan, Beach,Manhattan beach. Yes, I mean same DIFFERENCO, Oy, Rom asly, I'm not fromhere I went to my high school actually was in a partof Redanda beach, but I was a Manhattan beach boy. Were you a theater guy then,or were you a musician then or was it always intertwined? Or you know, I H. I always tell people that I was justraised on this diet by my parents and by the adults aroundme who were all arts people. My father was a music educator, but also aconductor and a ranger and and multi instrumentalist and my fat.My mother was a really really fine pianist. I mean really good a companist, but I was always being taken toeverything: a lot of plays musical theatre, chamber, music, coral, music,so low, H, concerts, jazz, a opera and H. I was Gr what Um I I so I had both H, both influences th tha, like the puremusic side and definitely the theater side, always in my life and uh th. I one thing that was kind of a blessingand a curse. I think, in a way is that I would listen to both my parents andthe other adults that were our close friends evaluating what we had justseen on a drive home, for example, or you know whatever the in a restaurantwhatever, and I would. That is what taught me sort of the standards youknow and that sort of the the blessing of it ina way. I I I love that and at the same time I think I grew up with standards that Ihave always been chasing and have never been able to meet. You know it'sKindali, I you know I I have this this this governor, this well, have it it'sthe crite, you know it's the critic and then t's. Then it becomes the ImpostorSyndrome Y. it's Kindo, like you, know, hey if people aren't already findingout if they don't already know that I suck th they're gointo find out at somepoint or that I don't know what I'm talking about yeah, but anyway yeah itwas H I', I'm still just you know in love with I'm just in love with liveperformance, yeah period live, entertainment and, and I don't reallycare what part of it I'm playing. I can be the guy. That's got the light on him.If that's what's going to serve the show or I can be the guy pulling thecurtain and I'm in pl, there are plenty of times in my in my professional life,where I am directing something or part of producing something, but at the sametime I've got to get my boots on the ground on deck, just plug in the holegoing where it's needed beand. As helping that show happen, I don't careyeah yeah, that's cool 'cause. You did go to college for a theater, yes, and Ithink that's a you know, it's a perfect combination, the tribute thing intheater and music. It's you know. Yes, I think you've found your place yeah. Ithink that's. That is definitely when I realized we went way way back to when when tlrstarted- and you know for those first, I don't know...

...seven years or so another guy that thatwas, you know there. On the very ground floor I was on the you know the the ground floor, Bein that by jointbefore we started performing, but you know one of those original guys hadtalked about. You know he he was a band guy, you know and and did a really goodjob of leading the band, but he got it. He got burnt after a while and he cameto me over breakfast one day and he said man, I am letting the band down,I'm grumpy we're not really getting anywhere we're not getting better andbetter gigs, and you said: Can I kind o hand it to you and I said I'll, give ita shot. You know and that's when I began to kind of sterit more toward the show, because I always thought that's what it needed tobe Ri know so. Yeah again, I keep coming back to that, but you're rightthose influences of theatere and Um just creating a piece of entertainment, notjust at being a damn jukebox right. You know, and it strucks me the first youknow show that we did. You know 'cause you're still you're. Also, like youknow, don't be seen before the show. You know there's a lot of theater rulesthat come along with being in in in the long run. You know which are familiar Y.U K, ow! I was never an actor, but I did musicals in high school. Nyou knowyeah, you know, but so, but I know for me it was Ohokaytheres. This is this. You know it was different experience which thewhole thing was like for me to even put myself out there and be, like sure I'll,be Don Henley and stand up without an instrument and sing a song Oka. Ihaven't done that since high school, but yeah, but that sounds like achallenge and something but- and you know I all those teans and stuff so andI was going to say that if, if the show and we are doing our job the way we see it the way I see it the way it'sintended to be, then you are framed when you, when you have to come out tothe center and sing and set up Desperado and sing it. You know, forexample, or dirty laundry. You know, and that is your moment. You know ifyou are flanked by that strong sense of there's an upright structure here.Right and everybody knows their place in that IIT's. Not just guys saying:okay, I'm Goingto just lay down the groove and we'll be fine rigt, you knowyeah, it's you. We GTA. We got our eyes on the ball righand. If you're feelingthat then that's exciting yeah well, it was exciting ough that that Ledotheater I sent my me singing Desperado to Dwet Yokum, asone of I sent like three videos, and that was one of Hem s like he wants to see. If I can singwell here, here's me singing an Eagle Song Yon. So thank you for that. Ithelp me get the GIG. I guess I love that. I found that youknow also that lot of times I'll see guys that have worked with us, butmaybe either or you know, sometimes guys that we use or or people that arepast guys and a lot of hem still wn. It's like hey soone, who, as changedhis profile picture and in varyays l. That was a picture with Tlr. That was apicture from tlr that was a bigger picture, FRO CAE and I I I find somepride in that. Well, you know that's an interesting other part of this is aut.There is this! This crowd of people like there is afan base there, and you know, is that of someone else. I was going to ask you:Is that something that you've worked really hard to do, which I'm sure youhave? I know you work really hard on interacting with your fans and there'sa meat, Ang greed after every show, but also these are fans of the tribute scenthat you can almost sort of just tap into. Maybe it was a combination of both, butthere is a great following of people of great people that are really big fansyeah, it's kind of a cool added bonus to this hole. It is and you're a you'reright on all there's account on all this counts. You know, there's there'sjust t e geneal tribute General Tribute Fan, who has their favorites of course, andthey see them repeatedly. Um Jim Wooton, and I again those who don'tknow Jim Wooton, though everybody in the tribute scene does es ice playersinger Ye does LEDP Agi, yes, exactly and Jauyes minor, eletion yeah. Is itreally let's tank about that, but we yeah yeah, he's in seven oreight tribute mandsthenicest Humobi I've ever met in my life. Yeah he's gotyou fooled he's. He is a hell of a guy E is a hell of a guy. We've had thisdiscussion here N I many times neither of US could conceive of going to seeany band anyone bad as many times as some people like to see bandsrepeatedly. We don't look down upon them. We're love the fact that t that H,th they're that way and we love the fact that we can be part in any of thebands they have something that makes them want to return and be a repeatpatron, but you're right, I think sometimes theticket in is once again you're attribute. Show you go. You go into anew venue in a new town and it's simply...

...the music people. Don't necessarilyknow you that first time you know rigtof course, but they're just curiousenough. You know. Sometimes it's show me, you know in other Tames Hey, Ilove the music and I just would love to hear somebody playing it. Liveyou knowand be have it be an affordable ticket, ight M yeah, that's Telothe, bt,there's yeah, but the theyre here again just to to sort of love on Californiaand the local scene. There is a very strong southern California tributescene, as you well know, and part of that. I think that was really given ashot in the arm by the ACCSS TV show. Oh interesting, Thean Greay, distributebands and that that really did something- and you know for those whomay be listening that don't know what that was Um Mark Cuban who and Ryancecrest at thetime who you know owned, Um and mark still does owns access t v. essentiallyyou know He. There was a a young honr personality, Katy Darrell. She hadfinished up something else and he said: Hey here's, your new assignment,tribute bands and Katy said. Thank you great. She walked away saying what theHell is. A tribute band Sh. She and II've talked about this.You know I told this story introducing her early this year to ACCSS T v Worldtradeas tribute bands Reunion Party, so I introduced her and I told her about-and I told the crowd about how this happened and she, you know later saidYeah. You know gigs absolutely right. I thought these tribute bands coverbandss going to be a bunch of hacks. They got to make a show about this, butshe did. She created the concept she produced and hosted the show and she isadorable and smart and Um and and savvy, and that show ran eight seasons. Almostwe were talking about in ninth, we ran eight consecutive seasons and startedout. I think the first season was t at the Rocki and then every subsequentseason was at the whisky of Gos o Hen this whisky ago go and for a seasonwould be. You know, twelve fourteen consecutive weeks of a differenttribute band performing live broadcast a five different continents every weekpatrons would come repeatedly to those shows and we, as members of t te e Tribuecommunity, would come repeatedly. Maybe one night we might have been working,but the rest of it. We can justn't go on those Wednesday nights every weekand we would hang out yeah with our peers prior to that show here insouthern California. We all lot of us knew of each other. We knew of eachother's bands. We were competitive, but we weren't personal, necessarily pride.We developed this sort of tribute community family and started beingsupportive of one another Af cool that show actually made that happen. Katybecame the matriarch and sort of our queen and she her show brought ustogether and in turn, also just evangelize the tribute scene in a waymore publicly, I think than it ever had been before, and Av cool yeah in reallystrengthon the network so you're your group Castle, Entertainment Group Y, soyou you're involved with a lot of other tribute bands as well, like you putthem together and is that yeah exactly do Youdo Yeah as little as I can get away with thesedays. Dor I tell you during Kovid. I havecome to really realize and and kind of embrace and sort of accept. Just howlazy I can be? Oh man and my alcohol tolerance has come up of course, andI've Gott better at woodworking anyway, yeah Um, you know we we do I for our group Castle, EntertainmentGroup and another division of that which is three thousand miles offBroadway productions when it comes to anything that in w a sort of ourtribute wing, if you will m yeah, I m I'm the guy there, because once again,I you know it's just it's just a field that I know very well so ri ht.Sometimes we will build something from scratch. Um other times it's just giving. As I said earlier, we do showdevelopment and productions. We we will sometimes create, shows aroundsomething that already exists. For example, there is a guy named Mattmouser, who issouthern California, local, South Orange County. He h just happens to be a guy that can do areally good sonatra and one of the things he has going for him is he's.You know he's on the younger side. In other words, he's I there there aresynotric guys that are about as old as frank would be. Now right, atere doingSynatra, you know when we started working with Mat. You know maybe earlyto mid forties, young handsome, vital charismatic, that's the kind of guythat older, ladies, that grew up with...

...frank or had a crush on hem want to see.Rigtthey don't want to see somebody older than they are right. They Han tosee someone n e rank exactly and Went Frankwhen. They were young yeah.Exactly so you know mad already had an act doing Sonotra with a big band. Wecreated a show around him called Senatra one, Oh one, and I had kind ofwritten it in such a way that Um we created this sort of narrative whereUm Matt is Professor Mauser and he'steaching. He teaches at hoboken university, and you know that we, when, when thelights go down- and he etters, you know he's walking along with the dean of you,know the department saying man, Hey man, I'm sorry we got cut backs. I gottohave you pick up another class ou now and its called Sonotra winto one- andyou know just this again, this new loose thread of an idea. You know thathas him walking into the class writing his name on the big Old Chalk Board.That's standing there on stage in the wooden frame on wheels and starting toaddress the class, the the lecture class. You know, and then he startstalking about Frang and he says. Well, you know we can't no class about the life and careerfrancs onone ill, be you know right without listening to some of his musicsay walks over and POPs a C D and two like a boom box that seed he starts playing, come flywith me and and the sound is actually coming out of that boom box. But thenwe go to full fidelity. The curtain flies to expose a thirteen piece, bigband that takes over in real time. You know- and that was a tribute- show,urine simple: It's a tributes show, but with a theatrical device and framingright to justify it being in a theatre at a little higher ticket price andgive people a show. Then you know that has a program they want to read. Yoknow, while they're sitting there, but so you know we do that and um I I get an opportunity to you knowmanage some tribute acts and and as well and book them as well. But anotherthing that I get to do in my work is also help some entities and develop their series. You know, I'm I'm,the exclusive buyer agent h serving some particular series that are consthat are concert serious yesit. You know a theater for example, or or Um. You know the like, for example, the thebig baryamphatheater you know p at the Discovery Center there you know I'mfortunate to get to work closely with them and help them create their seriescool you know, and, and one of the things I like about that work iswalking the line to serve the masters that than I need toserve. You know if you are the leader of a tribute group, and I know you andwe have a working relationship. I'm going to call you, and let you knowhere is what this Gig is here is how you get paid, here's how I get paid,and yet I also am trying to serve the interest of the auspice. You know ithas a budget and so on, and I I really like trying to do the best I can to exercise thatnecessary integrity. You know there are plenty of guys that I've seen that havebeen in bands they've done their own contracts Tho. They know what to book aGIG, they decide they're going to become agents and you can always smellwhen they say well, I know t I know what a battl do. I know what a tribueban will take. Ig Like I. I know how to work it. You know, and it's like man,whether I accept this from you or not, whether I find merit in taking your Gig.I also know that you're screwing me rig now so and it's it's not an easy lineto walk, but I enjoy trying to do it and I enjoy when I feel that an actknows that I'm taking that I've got their interests at heart, but they alsorecognize that I'm working for the event and and the series. So if I ginto successfully walk that line, I feel good at the end of that day. Ell,that's great. I mean the industry needs more people like you, it's a pretty once you get beyond yourguitar or your base or your drums, I it it's pretty slimy. It is it's onundermelly of a whole entertainment Du, its unfortunate, really yeah. It's Idon't even want to get dark about it. We don't h well like we're having such a great guyand like it's so easy, and maybe that's where this show will fall short becauseI'm not willing to to go dark as much as a as other people mightwant to. But you know there is this underside of this whole industry,that's Ju's, ugly and awful, and I I choose to not partake it. You know, butit keeps you coming back. It's like the OLF swing man. You know when you crackit just right. You see a sore man and it feels good and you didn't hurt yourshoulder and everything that ca coming back. But what I think is important,though, is a guy with integrity can still be successful. You know, andthat's that's what matters like I mean:...

Don't it's not all you don't have to bean Asswil, you don't have to be slimy and and play the game that way andthere's still plenty of room for everybody and there's plenty of work.Well, there was O. do it's such a weird time to havethis show, but and a great time to have it y? Ah, he said you had to GigNecwena Weeka and it's a drive in Gigand is there? Is there hope for that?Could that save us? From from this coved lockdown situation, H 'cause, youkN W just to go a little dark, yeah sure it was frustrating to me about thepolitics of this whole thing, and you know Avennew, so it just is so easilyshrugs off millions of people's jobs. When he's like. Oh the there won't belive music until twent, an twenty one and I'm like well, you can't even thinkof a way. Maybe you know C we could we come up with some rules. Could we maybeentertain the idea Ino for him to just throw it away and for me to be likeunemployment's stopping here soon? You know like just a feel just left out inthe you know, and I you know I want everybody to be safe w. You know I weara mask everywhere. I follow the rules, but to just have this notion of, likeOh, of course, we're not going to have life music. It's almost like we're, notaallowed to enjoy ourselves everyone's supposed to suffer right. Now, we'revery serious right now. There's no entertainment, like you know what I'msaying like it doesn't feel feel right. That t were just being blown off, youknow, and so you have. These drive in theatershows that maybe that's maybe there's hope how about he gavinies, and howabout that? Can we do that? Could we figure out a way to expand that canmaybe you have some sort of public fund to support that a little bit or youknow what I mean like? We need jobs. Wer Want to work, we're not lazy people.You know anyway, that's my Rana that was er. Okay, Responsloris Yours! Well, first of all, yes, we have a drive inshow it's not at a like an old drive in theater, but the concept is exactly thesame. This ameone happens to be in theparking lot of the OXNARD performing Arts Center up in Oxnard CaliforniaVentrand County. They will the sort of bullet points of it are ayou know, a stage you know, semipermanent stage has been erected,it's about five feet off the ground and I know where they actually brought thisstage from and it used to be like a foot and a half on the ground onnground.So they raised it, which is better obviously for visibility, but it's alsobetter for a sense of separation. Race is not really performancfacees, not inthe faces F of the patrons. They will allow, I think, a maximum ofone hundred cars in you pay you buy a ticket that is aticket for your car, and you can put as many people as your car will hold inthere. If I, under I'm, actually, which issafe, yeahyou got a quarantine Bu. You can put heap on your car you're good'sigh, that's funny. I tart what we see anyway, I'm just having good time me, don't oto dark you'll, go there dark bar rockstar anyway um w. So I think the concept is prettymuch the same. At many of these burgoning drive up concert events. Youwill get a space to put your car and then you will have a space and next toit, where you can actually set out your some lawn chairs and sin, and you canjust hang out and hang out in your car hang out outside your car and then thenext spaceover it will be another car. So there's a way of separating peoplewith cars as the partition right. Beyond that, I don't. I really don'tknow what I've been hearing is that, as most places seem to be, althoughthere are these protocols that are supposed to be in place, it's also kindof the wild west people get out there and rules aren't necessarily beingfollowed. That's not going to have the cause, but in terms of whether or notthere's promise and hope yeah everybody's trying to come up withsolutions. The first show that Tlr did back aftera four month, fourmonths of being off and by the way when we found out allthis was what happening t was happening. We were on the island of Bermuda, Ohman, we were there to close a festival, an annual festival and do two shows,and on a Friday and on a Saturday we found out Friday as we were about toload in that the shows were not going to happen.So we ended up having just a P, fully paid for day vacation, basically in Bermuda in idelic weather and gorgeouswater, and we had nothing to do but sit around and eat and drink. We returnedand that's basically, when everything started shutting down in hindsight youknow it's like well. I hope, if nothing else,we've learned, we realized hey. If we...

...could just get like the world to hunkerdown and shut up for like just thirty days, Ndo Noea, then maybe we wouldn'tbe in this place. But after four months the first opportunity we had to comeback was at Polacassino in the Tomecula Maria here in California, and they didit right. They first of they have a beautiful outdoorstage, five or six feet off the ground. Openair situation, that'll accommodate twenty five hundred people, tat G,limited it to five or six hundred yeah. They sold hem very normally nominallypriced Tok et ten bucks or something the stage is seventy five feet widesixty feet deep d: they enforced. They they took temperatures at the door.They set up groups of chairs that were all distance. Two chairs here r threechairs their fourthures ther're six years there, depending on what what thesize of your party and the only other rule was you can you know you can have your maskoff when you're there o at your your seating pod. But if you step away putyour mask on Bra, had people there to enforce that light away as theypossibly could Riso we had this look of absolut. I mean we're normally prettysmily, guys on stags we're genuinely happy and we're having a good time. Ithink the smiles were double wide. That night not only ID, feel great to beback and it all kind of fell together, but we felt like we were participatingin part of the solution right yeah now we're in this area. Where there's a lotof scramble, you know for for solutions, and I I see it- we participated in t in in it tovarying degrees, trying to be a part of this solution, but we also watch aswell. We can't dismantle that disguse W we'retrying to make progress here and recescitate live entertainment. You Kno,let's not screw this up. Yeah exactly yeah yeah, so we are seeing more andmore drive up shows and, of course, we're seeing a lot more live streams aswell, but the lie streams thus far are not being done all that well, no, mostof them blow yeah and h, yeah and then the whole logistics. How do you makemoney doing it too? You know 'cause, that's the other interestingthing! Maybe that's I don't know I think thes situation like so how muchmoney can you make of off a drive in Sho? So that means all this sort ofmidlevel bands it's going to be great, for they can Gig, but, like you know, fiancees not going to be ableto make enough money atd a drive in to put on a show yeah. You know so it',it's a solution, oaportion of it yet, and it's a lot of mutual backscratchingand giving and taking because we know that budgets are just lower cross, theboard everywhere, yeah hartly, because it's just people experimentingyou, knowUm, you know y you, you can you get ahundred tickets and that's it Ri t you know, and unless you're charging an armand a leg, I mean these re. Like thirty, nine bucks, Fifty Nine Bucks, a car, Ithink they're gradually inching up, but there's not a lot of gate potentialright. So once you spread that among whoever the producer promoter is techand an act you're all just eating it Y. Basically, I hoping that you're simply essentiallydonating your time, yeah, keeping your name alive and but donating your timealso toward. Are we getting closer yeah as you UINEA pigs, yea, N, larn thingsmoving, yeah progress, yeah we saying to the state and the country: Hey wr,we're fighting for this ppeal. You know you, you believe we are not essential.We think that what we do is essential well regard les spirit of Livanity Yeah.Well, I mean we can get into that too. On the part too, of this episode, I 'cause that's a tricky. That's a Trinkyone, whether or or ssentral or not. I don't even know you know as a humanbeing, whether my job is essential or not. You know I go back and forth onthatevery day, but regardless of whether we're essential or not we'retalking about twelve million people with no jobs and and it's not like people, don't wantentertainment, you know you also have an audience. You have performers, it'sall there and- and you know that's a big chunk of the Californiaeconomy to just ignore. Oh, my God, yeah there I mean going back to whatCalifornia is. We are in the entertainment capital of the world aswe sit here, you and I live next door to Walt Disney Studios Warner Brothers,Nickelodeon, the cartoon network N BC. It's all here around us and we're justyou know, look we look down over there and there's Hollywood over the hill.It's the chief export yeah, this city and county that we live in, really isentertainment. We can't do it. We can't do it, you know. So it's not. You know,I'm not even trying to make it political. No, I'm just saying meneither we need to you know it's a hard job for Everis, going to be thegovernmor right now you know like so I'm not you know super knock in the guy,but we need more ideas. We need more...

...willingness to to at least consider itguys, like you and me, need to show up at some of these meetings with ideas.Actually, but again you know it's true. When being this pretty we're going tohave targets on our back, that's going to be diff N, you know I e got aBodcastado I' got time of that. Absolutely you know yeah and by the way,speaking in this podcast, which I love, I I was mentionied to you before weactually started recording this show called off camera with Sam Jones that Iall right for. I think it was his hundreth episode of that and or his twohundredth he had one of his guests said for Youreto celebrate. Whatever that milestone is it you know. I want to interview.You I want you to be the guest, so I am offering right now publicly forwhatever episude, whether it's the fiftieth, if you get there or Stagaret,I would like to put my name in the hat as the guy that flips it around on. Youplays host on your own podcast and makes you the guest I'm just makingthat offer o o do ha. I will I will take Heu of let's make it fifty okay,I'm at fourteen okay, 'cause, I'm if I can get to fiftyhopefully I'll, be onthe road again, eventually yeah, but you're doing twice a week now, Oi've done it for two weeks and I gaveup. I don't blame you cause. Oh, my gods should work. You know 'cause. Iaddit all this stuff myself and yeah, and some people sit down here and talkfor two freaking hours. Yeah. I know O in ask holhow. Do we wrap up? Do We? Dowe just say well, Ohey? In essence, you want to Ta, Hey hey. I tribute tripybancs for dumbise. You WANT TO START ONE DO ABNC! Well I mean. Is that something youoffer services like? Do you want people approaching you and saying I got agreat idea for a triget band. Would you help me absolutely I'm in a plint in mylife, where I I have spent two decades that I neverthought I would you know in this field, and now I do feel, as Iwas saying to you earlier. I do feel that although I'm continually learning andI'm continually fascinated by it, I also think that I I you know, I'veamassed a lot of information about. I think what what needs to be there to make itsuccessful, if that's, what you're trying to do R- and this is about beingthis potcast- is about being a working, professional, musician and entertainer.So one will assume that you know if you're listening to this and you'rereally really interested and you h've hung in for the three hours andthen and you then maybe you'r you might beentertaining the notion or of you Kno in thosend and twenty two starting athe interview band and you know absolutely. I I like sharing theknowledge I I have some definite ideas. You know, but it's also about hey wha.What are you after what you? What are you looking to right to do out of this,and you know if I can be of help? Let me be of helpd great. It's been anawesome conversation man, a lot of knowledge packed into this and that'skind of what the show's about and thanks for being on and AH and just uh,letting all that out of you Il Ell, you ebothe pleasure is so mine, socompletely mine, and I look forward the next time at we get a chance to playtogether. You know, let's just make that happen. Sound Gooe, some CSNN Y OHandsome Eagles look up de Javu all right. Well, thank Yoen. Hey thankyouwell. I hope you got a lot out of that. There was a lot of information inthis episode, but really helpful stuff if, if you're interested in starting atribute band or being a part of one or taking your atribute ban to the nextlevel- and I thought it was really interesting when you talked about musicbusiness versus show business, because I don't think that that's just fortribute bands, you know that's something I had to learn over time andthings like you know, working for Disney d and wearing costumes and andworking with Gig. Quite frankly, Um help me a lot with that. I did spend alot of time in bars leading band, so I knew how to work a crowd, but whenyou're talking about pop level, gigs or big stages, everything has to be rampedup. You know exponentially so that you're, you can entertain h people thatare sometimes a hundred yards away from you B, and it's just it just points outthat it's more than just playing your instrument or singing well. You've gotto have some stage presents, and I think that goes far beyond just beingin a tribute band y mentioned that he couldn't go to Australia with Tlr, andthat was because of the pandemic hotel. California, the record was produced byBill Symchic, which is a hard one to pronounce. I had to look it up. Gig Isnot the first native California to be on the show, that's actually lorindgold and he's from the bay area, and I looked up the word sines and I have togive him props for picking a really good word. According to Google, itmeans having many curves and turns I'm just a base player, I'm in charge ofone note at a time so um. I learned...

...something on this show tonight. If, ifnothing else, I learn what cines means, and I hope that helped you guys out too,and I hope you had a great time. Wow you've made it to the end, I'mhoping it's because you completely enjoyed yourself and are now filledwith knowledge and inspiration to move forward with your dreams. If that isthe case, and you would like to sta informed of new episodes, live eventsand General News, please go to dive Bar Rock Stour, dotcom and sign up for themilliist. If you have any questions, comments, corrections or complaintsabout anything you hear on the show, please email me at Fan, mail at die,Bar Rock Star DOTCOM and you may even end up on the show we at the DiebarRock Star podcast with all of our hearts. Thank you for listening andremember. It's all about dreams.

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