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The Dive Bar Rock Star Podcast
The Dive Bar Rock Star Podcast

Episode 6 · 1 year ago

Derek Frank- Look Like A Rock Star (Gwen Stefani, Shania Twain)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Bass Player Derek Frank talks about his experience playing dual Las Vegas residencies with Gwen Stefani and Shania Twain. He talks about preparing for gigs, writing charts and sending good subs. He tells some road stories of his time with Air Supply and his first time playing in Vegas. Derek remembers his time at the University of Miami and why he lives in L.A.. He reflects on his diverse career of jazz, pop and country. He discusses how much control we’re in of our careers.

www.derekfrank.com

Let The Games Begin…

https://open.spotify.com/album/1yIBSDqlaR1RKOgVi74CkI?si=-4VDP4rmQMGvXzqGe1afhg

Do you love audio books? You can get a free thirty day trial membership to audiblecom by visiting audible trialcom, dive, Bar Rock Star. They have thousands of audiobook titles, as well as podcast guided wellness programs, theatrical performances, a list comedy and exclusive audible originals you won't find anywhere else. Get your free trial membership at Audible Trialcom, dive Bar Rock Star. Welcome to the dive, Bar Rockstar podcast, the show exploring the lives of professional musicians of all types, touring musicians, recording artist, songwriters, engineer's bar bands, wedding bands and anyone making their living in the music industry. Whether you've dreamed of being a professional or you already are one, this is the podcast for you. I'm your host, Eric Baines, and I hope that you not only find some entertainment here, but also some helpful tips, trade secrets and ideas that will help you achieve your dreams. The PODCAST is officially launched. Has Been for, I guess, about two and a half weeks now, so I wanted to start out by just saying thank you for everybody who's listening and enjoying it. It feels like I'm getting some really well, I am getting so it doesn't just feel like it, I am getting some some really good feedback and it seems like people are enjoying the podcast for the reasons that I wanted them to, which is always a good feeling, because it's been really fun for me to get to know my friends a little better and and my colleagues and be able to sort of, you know, showcase them, and it feels like everyone is kind of listening for those same reasons. So I guess mission accomplished. You know, it always feels good for it to be received for the reasons that I've I'm doing it. I would like to ask one favor, though, if you guys are out there, no matter where you're listening, if you could, you know, give us a five star rating and maybe, if you have a little extra time, to leave a review so that more people will be exposed to the podcast and and be able to enjoy it as well. My guest today is one of those folks that is a great friend of mine and he's also a great bass player and we've had he's had a really diverse career, which is kind of paralleled mine in a way. And in some weird ways we talked all about it, but because we've stubbed for each other a bunch. But he's also gone from smooth jazz to rock to pop gigs and Disney gigs and country and, you know, bar bands and stuff, and he's had a quite a great career and he's worked really hard over the years to achieve it. And right now his two main gigs are Gwen Stefani and Shin I a twain. So that's that doesn't suck. But he's also played with Paul and Rubio, Daniel Powder, mindy, a bear in the bone. Shakers are supply, Jeff Golub Alley and AJ Brian Auger, Shakira, Christina Aguill era, Peter White, Jackson Brown, and the list goes on and on and on. Like a lot of guests, he also has a solo record out called let the Games Begin, and he is just now finishing up a new one called eleven years later, which will be out in early September. So enjoy my conversation with my friend Derek Frank Star. Thanks for coming. My pleasure and, especially in these covid times, showing up. We're six feet away, I think. Yeah, something like that's good legal. Yeah, right on, within the legal limits of rpace social distancing. Yeah, which is a trip man like it's illegal to do our job right now, and that crazy. That's a little odd. Yeah, it's kind of like it's kind of like foot loose, you know, where like music, see legal. I guess I was dancing was illegal. Who? It's the cult of covid nineteen. Yeah, crazy. anyways. So you are currently doing two really awesome gigs. Yeah, you're a pretty, pretty lucky dude. I'm very fortunate. Absolutely. Yeah, so you were. And the weird part is to they both have Las Vegas residents. That was Amanda. The planets aligned on that one. Yeah, so went Safani and Channaia Twain. Yep, and you've been with Schney for a while then with her on and off for about five years now. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah. And so before that, though, you, you were kind of your you were doing a lot of smooth jazz. I think we've had similar careers in a sense, like I was a smooth jazz guy, you are smooth jazz guy and now we're both doing country gigs. I how we got there. That there is just I feel like we both kind of dabbled in a lot of the same things. Like, yeah, you know everything. I mean you've done every kind of Gig out there and I feel like I have as well. Yeah, like smooth jazz stuff, rock pop, teen pop, I mean, you know,...

...you did high school musical, I did Alan Aj and Toria justice, right, and let the young bubblegum pop stuff, cover bands stuff. Yeah, you know, I I feel like and then we both ended up on country gigs. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, so do you approach each gig differently, or are you kind of Derek, this is what I do, and you just go and pretty much, yeah, I mean it pretty much just do whatever the gig requires, which usually is just this, the same thing. It's just play the part, you know, perform, look like a rock star, you know. You know, yeah, just and just and just play the parts, play the songs. You know, it's the same no matter what kind of Gig it is, whether it's like a, you know, pop thing, a rock thing. You know, yeah, it's just a yes, but you don't have really a traditional country Gig in the sense either, because now, I mean it's very much a pop kids more, it's hot roach kind of the same way as a lot of the other pop gigs got I've done, where, you know, you build the set and then the set never changes, where it's like you with Dwight. I know we've talked about like he changes the set all the time and you're expected to know like his whole catalog, right, and he changes stuff up all the time, right, not arrangement wise necessarily, but but yeah, there's parts of the show where he he calls whatever he wants to call and yeah, and you got to know it all right, for sure. Yeah, I mean should I is not really like that. It's like once we've it will in every tour that I've done with her, every kind of situation where it's Vegas residency, the Promo tour or you know, like a tour tour, it's you. You decide on the set list ahead of him or she decides on the set list ahead of time and you work out all the transitions and intros and endings and all stuff, and then that's it. It stays the same, right. She'd never really shuffles stuff around. Same with Gwen, like well, at least when we do our vegas show. It's been the same ever since we started like we were hurting a certain order. Stayed that and then when we go do other shows, like corporate shows or festivals, sometimes the show lengths little different, so we'll change it up a little bit. But really we're drawing on the same batch of songs, you know, like twenty songs or something, and we may shorten Thatt if you were songs, you know. And do you like that? Yeah, I mean it's cool to change it up sometimes, but I like when Gwen does other shows outside of Vegas because we get to do that. We get to do extended versions of some songs, because cool in Vegas was a couple that we've that we've cut, like just so she can fit more songs in the show, because it's like a big greatest hits kind of show, right. So some of the songs have been cut, the arrangements have been cut down to like a two minute version of the song, but then sometimes we go out and do a festival or something, we'll do the full version. HMM, because then certain songs we won't do as many songs, but we'll do, you know, the full versions, right. Yeah, but you always know what's happening or what's going to happen. Pretty much. I mean sometimes, like we don't really find out the set list till the day of the show. God, but we all know there's nothing. Yeah, she's not going to throw a song at us that we don't know right. this bing side off of tragic kingdom, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I always kind of prefer that. Honestly, it makes me at ease when I'm about to go on stage and I know what's going to happen. Yeah, I mean sound check, you know, if it's a festival or something, sometimes we won't really know exactly what we're doing until sound check, but then it's just like, okay, what version are we doing? Or we do in the full version or we do in the Vegas version, right, and then that's that's easy. Yeah, that's cool. And and it did. You Rehearsal Lot with Gwenn. We did at first when we were building the Vegas show. We did, we did like a month of rehearsals and and now we don't like yeah, maybe we'll call a rehearsal here and there if, like she wants to put together a new show for some of the corporate things we're doing or some of the festivals. We might like have one or two rehearsals here and there, but it's it's not frequent at all. Got You. Yeah, yeah, it's like we just rehearsed a month, got this show together and then, yeah, yes, and she's real laid back. I look like like even when we when we do shows outside of Vegas, it's kind of like we just decide and soundtrack, you know what the set's going to be and then, like, depending on the size of the stage, you know whether or not we're moving up, we're running out front or you know. So it's she's real laid back. You know. It's cool. It makes it makes it fun and easy. And SHANAIA rehearses well. Yeah, I mean the same thing for the before we did the Vegas residency. We built the show, we put the show together, but we only rehearsed for maybe three weeks, so not as long as Gwen. But yeah, then once that, once that show started, it's like for each leg in Vegas, will show up like two days before and we'll do like two days of rehearsal. Gotcha, my production right. Yeah, like in the venue, just make sure everything works, make sure I would remember where they're supposed to be and all that. You are amazing at like writing charts. You're a great guy to sub for. Maybe...

I should go back even to that, because the first time I ever played in Vegas was subbing for you. Actually, AH, because I moved out here. I went to high school with a girl named Cake Kelly. He went to college with K Kelly. So she gave me your number and said here, call my friend and I called you up and, you know, we hit it off. You needed a sub you called me super grateful, you know, for that. Was it? That was joe's band or mvps? When vps? Yeah, the Coral Reef Lounge and lay by. Yeah, yeah, good times, man. It is good, but that that get kick my ass a little because it, dude, it was like thirty to thirty in the morning. Yeah, and high energy the yeah, higher time. Yeah, yeah, and in for five or six nights in a row. Yeah, yeah, and I know, I even want to mention what the pay was. Was Pretty Low for what it was right. Yeah, like man, for me at the time I just moved to town really, so I was like what, yes, I'll take it. Let's good and for any of us, they're like young and we're just kind of getting going whatever, like those gigs are fine, like yeah, it was a lot, but I never complained about it, like I wasn't like, yeah, this is too much. I was just like man, this is awesome. I'm playing in Vegas and getting paid and this is just what it is. Now we look back on it, I wouldn't do that again. Kind of reach some other you know. Yeah, you know, if my career is kind of grown from that. And now the thought of that, the thought of playing a five hour gigs six nights in a row in the same venue, you know, for with the money was I was like yeah, I wouldn't be able to do that now, but at the time was like yeah, this is cool. Yeah, and that's what it qualifies you as a dive Bar rock star. Cool. Yeah, I've been in the dark bar. Yeah, we all started strenches, you know. Yeah, but but something for you is great. When I was leading to is that because so well, I mean ask you this. Do you generally when you're preparing for a GIG, do you just chart things out regardless? Always Gig, always, Yep, and I know I'm going to memorize it. But for me, like charting it out is a way to just like put it in my brain before like helps me kind of visualize it, like puts a vision will element to it. So I always do that, whether when Shanai, air supply, whatever. I just I chart everything out and then I may use it for the you know, first couple rehearsals and then it just kind of, you know, gets drilled into my brain that I don't need the charge anymore, but then I've got them in case I need to sub the GIG out. Right, and then it's like you make it so much easier for your sub because he doesn't have to spend, you know, a week learning a whole set of music. You know, you can given the charts and just makes it easy for him. Like yeah, you filled in for me with air supply and right, I had all the charts. And Yeah, I had to. I had to sub out some gwen stuff a while back and and I'm had all the charts for that as well, and right, it just makes things easier. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing, but I'm all I kind of approach it like if I really want to do the GIG and it's a really fun thing. It's easier for me to just memorize it because the chart for me is like another step. If I if I start with the chart, I'm going to have it's going to be a crutch for the rest. Okay, with Greg Cruc is for eight years and I read every single gig because I just never got off the charts that second. Others you were able to. You didn't. You didn't have to memorize exactly. Yeah, it was like another get it. Yeah, so I generally, if it's like a GIG that I know, I'm not reading charts on it, I'll just memorize it, and I say that as if it's easy, but I'll spend, you know, three eight to ten hour days memorizing it. That's cool, and I mean the same thing. Yeah, the chart can be a crutch sometimes. Like, yeah, you know when I was playing in impulse, another GIG that we've shared, right, wedding band. Yeah, wedding band, great wedding band, though. I'm like, you know, everything was charted out it or like a lot of them were like, you know, I charted them out or whatever. But yeah, a lot of stuff I'm you know, I never really memorize just because I didn't have to write because, like, because I had the chart, no one gave a shit if I was reading or not. Everyone's you know. Yeah, so I was just kind of like yeah, and it's in the nature of the GIG anyways, because they have a big book of Charts. You show up and that's they're like, okay, pick a one hundred and fifty six, you know. Yeah, because you're playing stuff with like string sections and horn sections and it's different all the time and it's kind of, you know, too much to memorize all of it. But I there are other gigs that I do from time to time where I think, you know what, I should memorize this, but there are charts, so I'm using him. It's crush, you know. Yeah, yeah, totally. Well, it's great for the subbing situation. I came up from Denver and I worked there for ten years before I moved here, and in Denver you're kind of in a band. So in the subbing thing doesn't never didn't happen when I was there, right. So when I moved out here in general, it was weird to just like only this whole subbing thing is a big weird thing. You know, especially for me as a person who, like I said, I was going to do your Gig and I will be at your Gig, it's not really how it works out here. Will mean people are into so many different things out here that it's just I mean it's just in nature of the business, you know, and I think you know you can have old whole career without having a regular gig. Yeah, you know, we just be a sub and yeah, you know, just sell on a ton of stuff, right, and we both go through that from time to time, like when our regular gigs aren't happening, will just be subbing on different things, you know, right. But I think it when it comes time for me to have to sub out of something, I don't already have...

...the charts, like you know, you haven't already set up so that the subbing they just works so well. I'm always happy to sub for you because I know the and you gave me a you gave me a board, or you're in here mix. Oh Yeah, supply thing too. So, yeah, because you sing some stuff. So you like I turned up the vocals on this side right and the basis up on this side, and I was like, this is easy. Well, I just I just try to think like what what I want if I were coming into sub and most of the time people don't do that for you, you know, right. Sometimes it's like and you it's like pulling teeth just to get any information at all. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and so you know, I've just kind of like, if I need to sub out something to somebody, I I want to think like Oh, you know, what would I want if I'm going to cover this GIG? Yeah, so I just kind of do that and and it just makes it easier. Then, like you know your subs going to do a good job because you have no excuse not to. He's like it's got everything right there for him. Yeah, yeah, and I always also kind of think, and it's not necessarily true, but it just it's a good way of thinking. For me, it's like my sub is representing me. So, you know, if I send a bad sub, that's means I did a black bad gig. Of course. No, I mean yeah, so you there's that fine line between like send a sub, that's good, it's going to represent you well, but not it's going to be better than me and take the GIG. Everybody. So everybody says yeah, but I generally never worry about it because, especially if a guys better than me, he's got other gigs. You know, like I don't really write right, gets right much into the competition of now. But I said I don't either, man. I just figure, you know, the guys that I call the stuff for me, they're my friends. They're not going to be like in the artist ear saying like I'm available, you know, you I know, guys aren't going to do that. Yeah, you know, they don't. Generally that's going to get you a bad reputation and exs. It's not a good way to do business. Yeah, that's not going to work out for you in the long run. Yeah, totally. Yeah, so you went to Miami University? Yep, University of Miami. Yeah, and I have to correct that, because Miami, Miami University. Yeah, there's there's a Miami University in Ohio, right, is weird, and then University of Miami. Right, say, I see, you went to the real one. I went to the one in Miami. And how is that? It's great. Not a good play. So many great players. Yeah, great program great players. I hated the city couldn't wait to get out of their guy. So I did my four years there and then, like I was, I was gone. I had no intention of staying. Oh, it was just I just you know, some places are good fit for you and others aren't. That was just at this place. Is it just never felt like home? Yeah, so, yeah, I just did the college there, but man, so many great players. There's a lot of guys from Miami that I from from school that are here in La that I play with a lot. Yeah, still. Yeah, so it's kind of like I went to Berkeley. It's kind of the same thing. You get out here and there's a pocket of people that you can just plug into. Yeah, it's your network. Mean that's kind of what what kept me here is like I came out here just to visit for a while, where I was going to spend the summer here. My parents were living out here and I was going to this was just kind of a transition for me and I had some friends from from college that were here gay and and they were just throwing me gigs right away and I was like Oh man, no, no need to go anywhere else, like I should just stay in La that's cool. Yeah, so you didn't really ever dream of moving to La and making it big? No, it's interesting. I you know, I for some reason I just didn't think of La like my parents moved here when I was in college and so I'd come to visit for spring break and stuff like that in holidays. But after college I went to Boston and was with with a girl and she transferred Berkeley. She was a singer and I just went along because I didn't really know. They really know what I wanted to do or where I wanted to go. So I was like yeah, I could, I could gig in Boston. That did not happen. That's one of those cities where it's like you're at the time it seemed like you're in a band that's work in it. You're not like like I was hoping I could just be like the freelance guy in the sub but it just like wasn't working out that way. The Gigs I did do were just like little jazz gigs that paid like twenty bucks. You know, right, right, right. You know, after less than a year I decided to move. I was going to go to San Francisco. I had some friends there that were playing jazz and making a living at it. It's kind of where my head was that at the time. Got Yea. So I was like okay, we'll go to la first, because I was flat broken and I was like I'll live with my parents and, you know, get a day job or something for the summer, save up a little money and then start again. But then I was I was here for a couple weeks and you know, it's decided to stay. That's cool that I did. Yeah, it's kind of a similar thing. I came out to visit and I just immediately I'm like, between the weather and and the gigs and the players, I was like this is this is home. There's a lot to like about Lah. Yeah, and I think that's really important to just people in general on their lives. You got to find the place where you you're supposed to be. Yeah, yeah, because I was never happy in Denver. I always kind of dreamed of New York, but I don't know, it just seemed a lot harder at the it was a harder time, just livings harder New York exactly, especially as a musician. You got a man, what are you gonna can't have a car? That's expensive. So you're going to your lug your gear on the subway. I like, yeah, Bass players like Lug their upright base on the subway and stuff that. They never seemed attractive to me and I never considered New York. Like I love going to New York and were working in New York and playing there and stuff, but like living in New York is just too intense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I will...

...whenever I'm there. Now I'm like a man. So glad I didn't do this. But didn't. Maybe maybe three hours after I just I get the you know, originally from New York, I was more of your kids. You. So okay, but I didn't live there very long. But I always takes me. At first I'm just in shock. I'm like the energy is so crazy and yeah, but after like three hours and think, oh, okay, this is awesome. You know, I kind of get hooked on it. Now it's cool, it's really cool. But but yeah, just the money. I mean it's expensive here, but it's expensive there, but you don't get near what you get here for the same expensive. That makes any sense? Yeah, I mean you can spend three grand a month in rent for like a closet. Exactly happen where? It's like out here. You spend that much in rent, you can you can get, you know, a house. Yeah, you have a house in valley month, you know. Yeah, it is expensive. It keeps getting more expensive yet, but but I feel like you can at least get something with some sort of size and space. You know, where's New York. Everything's just so crammed together, you know, man, and now you'll be coughing and sneezing a lot. Yeah, I know, like covid yeah, it's pretty bad out there. Yeah, I mean it's like a ton of people just, yeah, you know, huddled together, you know, just like in the standard watching there on the street time like in here. Yeah, here we're in our cars. Yeah, you know, we kind have a naturalizolation. That happens. Yeah, there's just more space out here. Yeah, they're it's just like a ton of people crammed into a small area. Yeah, of course, you know, of course it's going to spread there. Yeah, but you can drink all night. It's so great. Yep, yes, you can have gone down that route way to any time. Ye, done that. Living there would probably kill me. So you were into jazz when you got out of college. Same with me. I was like Mr Jazz Guy, but I went naturally into the smooth jazz thing. And so you played with the mindy a bear for a long time and Jeff, Jeff Golub, I saw on your thing. Yeah, I mean really cool. All the all the stuff in the smooth jazz scene that I did came from middy. I was never really the guy that was like floating from artist to artist. Net seemed like I never got too immersed in it, like I kind of fell into it. I was recommended for Middy's band by Jay Gore and Jamie Tatet to did not a distion. She chose me and then I was in her band and then from being in her band we played with other people, like we did some shows, like you know Peter White a bunch of times, and we did a tour with Jeff Golub and Dave it pack, which is really fun cool, and from that, like they would call me for their gig sometimes. Every now and then I did a record with Jeff and but I never got like two immersed in that scene, like there are some guys that are like they just play with all the guys in that scene yeah, yeah, that was me for yeah, probably fifteen years, right. You're greg and Kiko and yeah, OK, goes. Yeah, twelve years with her and Oh yeah, yeah, I was and it was cool. It had a lot of great experiences and you got to play sure. And so coming out of that and into a pop thing, was that something that you did intentionally or did that just happen? Why? I'd already kind of been in the pop circles a little bit. Like I prior to Mindy, I I done the alley and AJ thing, you know, they were a Disney Act. Hollywood records with them for a couple years and from that I went from that I went to dancing with the stars. I was doing the dancing with the stars tours right and then after that is when I when I hooked up with Mindy. So I was kind of doing some diverse stuff before that and then and then while I was with Mindy, I was also doing some doing some pop gigs. Like some other things came up and Mindy was cool about me leaving to go do a tour with somebody else. Like the Victoria Justice thing came up and I did too summer tours with her and then air supply came up and I kind of did that. I was kind of like juggling, Juggling Mindy's GIG and air supply and Victoria and all that for a little bit. Yeah, and then some of the other stuff came up. I remember you coming to my birthday. We were hanging it the one up or something, and and I was like cornered you and I'm like did I heard you got the air supply Gig. I'm a total nerd are supply fans since I was like twelve years old. Yeah, that's so. We gotta let me self on this Gig. If you ever eat anybody, just let me do it once. I just so I can say I play right. Right. Yeah, and that's what it when when the when I did need to sub some stuff out, I was like I got the guy. Yeah, yeah, and then, you know, it just so happened like I subduct that first weekend that I was supposed to do another week and then in between Dwight Yoakam called and so I had to sub out of subbing out of you right. You know, oh my gosh, it has it was I was I felt bad about it, but it's one of those instances which is just how it works out here. It's like I can't yeah, you know, I got this is a steady gig, you know, and and mostly not understand. Yeah, when that, when that comes up, like most people do understand. Like that was kind of thing with mindy, like when when kind of higher profile things came up and I was like I'm gonna have to miss, you know, a bunch of stuff, she was always just like go do it, I get it. Like right, no, it's good for your good for your resume, good for your bank account, like go do it and come back and right, right, and...

I think most artists are, you know, will understand that. Yeah, for sure, you know, and did so working with air supply. That was also a great thing that it's like they say, don't meet your heroes, but those guys are just awesome, so great. I can't even believe it, like Oh, yeah, you know. I mean I'm in my late S and I'm meeting these heroes from my child and and I do this professionally. We meet people all the time, but sure that was just like I can't believe they're standing there and like they're praising me because I did good on the GIG. You know, it was such a great experience, but it was. It was fun working with those guys, right, yeah, absolutely. I mean they're just so down to earth and laid back. There of all the artists that I've worked with, they're probably like the most just down to Earth. You know. You can joke around with them, you know right. Yeah, I always just bring up this one thing when Russell paid me a hundred bucks to tell him to fuck off. You know, it's just like you can just joke around with these guys and they're hilarious, you know, and that's okay. I yeah, I mean I, yeah, they're cool because I you know, I don't have the same relationship with other kind of superstar pop artist that I've worked with a lot of there's a lot more separation sometimes where, yeah, you know, you don't have that comfort level, you know right, do with those guys, and so it's just cool that they were that laid back. Like I they know, but before I went and played with him, I talked to Graham on the phone for a while and then they had me come out to Vegas to check out their show and we had drinks afterwards and it's just, you know, they're just totally cool. That's awesome. Yeah, they're just guys that just love doing what they do and they've been doing it for forty five years now and they do a hundred and twenty shows a year, just total road dogs and they just they just love what they do and the fans are great. They have die hard fans all over the world. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah, well, I've will always be in your debt for letting me self on that GIG. As I don't said. Well, you got you obviously did a great job. They loved you, you know. Well, yeah, thanks. Yeah, you also mentioned dancing with the stars. It's kind of a funny story because you are out on that tour one time and Monique Coleman was on there and my wife, she was my girlfriend of the time, was personal assistant for Monique Coleman. Yeah, so I had gotten off the road with somebody at some point. It's probably Corbin blue at that point, Uh Huh, and Monique was like just tell her to come out, because she had her own bus. Just like just tell tell her to come out and hang out. So I ended up just going for two weeks and staying on her bus and just being the guy in charge of like where's the party tonight? Yeah, and so we ended up kind of hanging out on that tour. Yeah, yeah, that was fun. Weird circumstances. Yeah, that was a cool coincidence. Yeah, it was pretty fun. I remember, though, like one night I was like come on, man, we're going to party. Let's go do this, and you're like we're in this big video game tournament in the back of the bus. Man, I'm just going to be really, really funny. I'm like, come on, man, we're partying. Oh Man. Yeah, we got into some pretty heated mortal Kombat tournaments with some of the dancers. I remember that. That was a good time. Those tours were great. I did three of the tours and those really cool. They took good care of us and the band was great and yeah, and most of the most of the stars that we that were out there were really cool. Yeah, all hung out. You know, Monique was really cool. Yeah, and it's similar in a way. I mean I did the high school musical ground tours and it's like a TV show. Really. They were TV movies. You're a TV show. Right. The budgets are different. They're not making their money off of this tour. Yeah, there's other stuff. There's like sponsorships and it's, you know, TV money involved and yeah, so they end up being cool, pretty cushy gigs. Yeah, yeah, for sure, treated Nice. That was a super cushy GIG. Wayne Newton was on that day. I remember I went to staple center to see you guys when you're in town because no, Nique was still considering doing it and they're like come out and see this or she had just agreed to do it. So she's like they come out, because that was the other interesting thing about that. Zi Stars came in and out as you were going. Yeah, it wasn't for every night. Wasn't the same thing. Even for two weeks I was there. There was I can't remember exactly who was coming in and out, but it's just seemed like it was kind of always moving. But I remember being at stables and in Wayne Newton didn't like, Oh what's this old guy going to be like? And that guy comes out and this entire stadium of people are just just enthralled, like he's like Oh, this is old school, he's royalty man, Oh my God, and his just his presence just standing on stage, but blew me away like I'm getting chills just talking about it, like he's just incredible. It's like that old school entertainer thing. It's I don't know that it exists anymore. Really he's the guy that would like sing a love song like Frank Snatra. I would say there's bout him. He'll sing you the sweetest love song, but then he'll kick your ass, you know. Right, all right. He has this tough guy image, but he's nice. It's just a weird mafio maybe presence, I don't know. Sure. Yeah, but Wayne was super cool. He was. He was one of my favorites from all those tours because us its air. Super Nice, friendly guy. He had us all over to his house in Vegas. We had a day off in Vegas and he had a little like barbecue. catering staff cooked for us, you know, like this. He's this huge...

...ranch in Vegas and it was cool. He just he's just a super nice guy's wife is really nice and they were. They were just, you know, a joy to be around. The World Class Act and I think the other thing about those guys is there wasn't any like, Oh, I gotta sing this song again, like he's gonna come out and Dude Duncas Shin and he's going to do it with all the joy that you that he's done every night and he's get, he gives'll get. You know, it just feels like there's no bitterness or Jaden. He's happy to be here to do this song again. Yeah, he's not like one of those guys that you would that go out there with a smile then immediately get off stage and light a cigarette. Me Like, Oh God, this sucks. Exactly. I got. He's like what you see on stage with him is like just him. Yeah, you know, and people wought, I would always ask, that they'd be like he's he you know how he is he off stage? You know, is he like dark and bitter and jaded, or is he just like genuine, like man, he's just a nice guy that obviously appreciates what, you know, opportunities he's had in life and yeah, you know, he's great, you grateful guy, you know, and really nice to people around him. Yeah, yeah, I can't say good things. Yeah, and as a musician and professionals like I'm always looking at the old guys and being like it's just a joy to see people still having fun. I guest saw the rolling stones a couple of years ago. Yeah, and it was the same thing. It's just like how many times have you played satisfaction? But they look like they're having a blast. Yeah, totally, there's still doing it and like, oh no, I hope that when I'm old and playing a dive bar somewhere I'm still enjoying it totally. I tried to and I looked people like that just for inspiration, yees, to just how I should be, you know. Yeah, exactly, and I'm reminds me of this one, this one instagram post I saw like after after a lot of shows, like I'm always looking at instagram just like Hashtag whatever artist I'm playing with, just to see if they're any good pictures, you know, and I remember on an air supply to her I was like looking at the air supply Hashtag on instagram. Found this one post and this guy said that like he took he took his girlfriend out on a date there as a joke because he thought it was going to be like super lame, like these old guys singing these love songs and and he was just like Holy Shit, I can't believe I'm saying this, but are supply kicked ass and like just he was like said a lot of good things about like Grahm and Russell. Now they talked to the crowd and stuff. I was just like, yeah, it's cool when like someone is just like surprise like that. Yeah, you know, that's amazing back to somebody just kind of like phone it in. Yeah, but then when they like kind of really bring it, like man, yeah, and they've designed that show to not be cheesy. It's a great show. Like I took my my wife, my young wife, she's ten years younger than me. So generally the music I like is not the music she likes. Right, and air supplies still, you know, older music for me. And Yeah, so, but I'm like, you know, you never seen the show. You should just have to. They are playing close on the Valentine's days. I'm like this perfect and timmy going to see a cheese and love showed Valentine's days the day right. Yeah, but it and I just knew and it kind of happened that the exact same way. By the end of the show she's like, well, all right, that's great, you know, because they're great performers. It's a great show and, yeah, a lot of their arrangements have been you know, you're talking about that the other night. Yeah, a lot of the arrangements are a little over the top. They're not like the record. But in the course of a show it kind of makes sense, you know, because you can't just sit and listen to ballads. Yeah, yeah, two hours. How To make it exciting? They have to figure out a way to make make the songs exciting for a live show. Yeah, you know, it's one thing to put the record on and you know you're having a candlelight dinner or something and it's appropriate, you know, but like in a live show, yeah, I like, you can't just like play ballads and yeah, expect people to like be enthralled, you know. Yep. So I think it's a pretty satisfying show for anyway. Man, for sure. Maybe she just talked for another three hours about how much I love Airside. All right, and I nerding out too much. Anyway. Man, we had a conversation probably a few years ago about because I was in playing in a wedding band, impulse kind of full time. You had left to do Chanaia and stuff and I was like, well, I'm going to be I'm going to get out of debt doing this wedding band and then I'm going to get back on the road, because I had kind of done the road thing and I took some time off to get married and spend some time at home, you know, and then I was back four years and I'm like I got to get back on the road and I'm like, so, this is my plan. I'm going to do this and do that and do that. I'M gonna get back on the road. And you were like, you know, yeah, but gigs come when they come. You know, you can't really force that situation or you don't just go to get a gig necessarily. And and I was like, at the time I was like, I'm not sure about if I believe that or not, you know what I mean? Like I think yes, but I think intention is kind of important and like sure, I think that what you do on a regular basis, just by being a professional and being out there and talking to people and all that stuff, is how you continue to get gigs. So maybe you're not saying I'm going to play with the rolling stones and you go get that Gig, but by sort of doing all the stuff that you do. You you do get gigs or you know what I mean. Sure it's not just about okay, I'm ready. Yeah, back at home, wait for the phone to ring. And I mean I wish, I wish it were like that to wear like whhen you decide you want to go do a good road Gig, you can go get...

...it right, you know, for me, like chasing after a gig never worked. Like there were times when, like I hurt, I would hear that, you know, somebody's put a band together for tour something, and I'd call the MD or something say like Hey, I'm available. That never worked for me. The gigs that I got were just came up randomly from like, you know, some other Gig I did around town with somebody and they're like hey, I think you know, this might be happening. You know, would you be interested in like yeah, cool, be great, you know, or just like somebody just thinking of me and recommending me. But I've never gotten, like actually gotten a gig by intentionally chasing it down, you know, and I think I think you're right. Intention has something to do with it. If you're like putting yourself out there if you're kind of showing up around town, if people know that you're you're around, you're available, you're not on the road. You know that that can lead to people thinking of you when an opportunity comes up. Right now, right, yeah, right, and that just you know, that's just kind of expanding your network. I feel like the more people you know and the more good relationships you have with other like minded musicians, you're increasing your chances of somebody thinking of you when something comes up. Right, right, right, right, and I mean it probably you know that. That's just how it worked for me. Like it that that whole thing about chasing gigs. Maybe that happens for some people. I feel like there's no right or wrong way or there's no definite way to make things happen in this town. It's like everybody's got kind of like a different way of doing things and what works for somebody might not work for somebody else. True, very true. Yeah, absolutely. And how much do you think this is something that as a jazz player and then trying, because for me, I sort of really tried to transition out of that because I did a lot. I was doing a lot of smooth jazz, I was in my whole career for a while and then I was finally written Owur we opened up for Kenny loggins and I watched Kenny loggins play and I was like, I'm a singer, like how did I get stuck in all this instrumental music, which is fun and it was neat, but I'm like, man, I want to write songs and other it just changed my whole direction and it took me a long time to get to where I am now, where I'm playing with a great singer songwriter and I sing every night and that's really the kind of the majority of the work on the Gig for me is the singing. I'm going to play Bass, but it's a pretty traditional country GIG, so the it's it doesn't require a ton of chops, you know, as far as our base it's more of a single thing, but just transitioning from there to there. Some of the things that that struck me is like, for one, the look thing come becomes a lot more important, like in jazz it was kind of like if you had a cool shirt, just wear it every game, because it's really about leading with your playing and right you got to be a great player and that's what I was my whole world for like, I don't know, twenty years really, if you count Denver. And then we get to a place where it's like it's not exactly about the playing. And I've found if I go to melrose and I spend one fifteen hundred bucks on some clothes, now I'm getting some different kinds of gigs. You know, Dude, right does that feel? I know that you it. You know you you said tend to you have a look when you're on stage and that's something that you know. It seems like you you have put a lot of care into sure, I've been how much, how much? How important you think that is? Well, compared to the bass playing itself, unfortunately, it's really important. In for a lot of artists it's more important. I've learned that, you know, and it's not necessarily a judgment call. I'm not trying to call anybody out on anything else. that. That's just really interesting to me that I had to shift gears and what I was leading with sort of yeah, you know, I got to shore with a look first, for sure, and before they're going to hear me play. Yeah, I mean a lot of artists choose their players based on pictures and videos. Like no one wants to hear audio. They they don't say like Oh, send me some empires or something, they say like send me some photos and videos, and a lot of artists to just be like yeah, he looks cool, you know. And it is unfortunate because music should always be first, and I've always thought that. I'm always approached music that way. To wear like that's the most important thing always, but for a lot of artists it's more image. So, you know, you got to be flexible in that, in that you know you can. You can kind of fit within that artists image and what what they want, you know, right, you know, they want people to that looks like, look like rock stars. You know. Yeah, and do you generally think about an artist when you're are you dressing for the Gig or you did you say, I'm going to just have a look and I'm going to look Badass. What you do not hitting on. You Ll thank you and then I'm and then people are going to pick me. are like, when you went? Did you have to? Well, here's another conversation, probably, but did you have to audition for Gwen Stefani? Yeah, okay, so did you when you showed up, did you think I need to dress like that Gig, or did you just say this is my look and this is what I'm doing? I had already kind of like gotten a look for myself that I liked, like as time would like. When I was younger, I didn't really know anything about clothes. I didn't. I...

...just was unobservant when it came to that. I just kind of wore jeans and tshirts and whatever and just didn't really give a shit about it. And as time went on, like I think when I was doing the alley and Aj Gig, I was working with an MD zoo. I don't know if you ever knew zoo. Yeah, because I I went on a tour with chrome and blue and alley Aja right after you guys, the tour that I wasn't on yet. That's right, I forgot about and I saw that we were going to be. It was like a yeah bill with drink bell right that Corbin blue and Alle AJ, and I saw those. That was going to be the summer term, like cooling out all summer with Derek. Yeah, but then I was that, yeah, that that's when dancing with the stars came up and I I just opted to go on that tour. But Zoo was the MD on my first alley and Aj tour and he was just totally into clothes. Like that guy would have like a stylist bring him close to rehearsal and stuff like this, and I just saw how much he thought about it and like right, you know, put into it. I was like, you know what, like it is important, like, you know, you're on stage, you're expected to look like a rock star. And like from then on I started thinking more about clothes and paying more attenion and, you know, shopping more and looking at stuff, and I think I just got to a point where I'm like I found certain stuff that I like, that I was comfortable wearing, that I thought looked cool, and so I kind of like created my own kind of look, you know, yeah, you know, which isn't like over the top. I just, you know, I write, you know, the kind of clothes I like, like John Varvados and stuff like. I like the kind of like really expensive way are like we just kind of like the upscale rock star stuff, right, it's not over the top. Like, you know, I never got into like the whole hot topic look right, emo kid, look. I just kind of like that adult rock star kind of look, you know, and so I just kind of like that just became kind of my thing, you know. And so like when I go to audition for somebody, I just dressed like that, like dress how I normally dress, like that's how I dressed when I go out, you know, and so I just kind of got to the point where I'm like, you know what this is, this is kind of my look. So this is what I'm going to wear. The audition rat you know, because I did overthink it. Forbid. I think I did some auditions where I would look at at the artist and look at their bands, like look at Youtube stuff before I audition to be like, oh, these guys kind of dressed kind of outlandish and you know, that's stage wardrobe. That's a little different, you know, right. But like I started to kind of overthink it and I think I'd I think I went too hard on some auditions, like with the way I dressed and stuff interesting. I know that I did that on a macy gray audition, like because like her band kind of looks, you know, kind of kind of Funky, you know, like and I kind of went a little bit over the top. I'd like combat boots and suspenders and Shit and, you know, any of this audition. I felt great about the audition and, like, you know, knew all the stuff, you know, got my backgrounds together and I could tell from the get go that she just didn't dig me. She just wasn't really give me the time of day and she told the MD just like that. I forget what she said, but it was just like I don't see me vibing with him and and and I know it is just because I was like kind of went too hard on the clothes. You know, I overthought it, you know, right where, if you know, if I just like went as as myself, you know, MMM, maybe it would worked out. I don't know, but like, yeah, I think I just kind of overthought it for a while and then just got to a place where I'm like, you know, I like that, like this is the look I like and I'm just going to if I audition for something or do a Gig, I'm going to I'm going to wear this because this is how I feel comfortable. Yeah, right, yeah, cool. And then like when you do a big tour, like I should, I or a or or something, there's wardrobe. You know, they have they have a certain look they're going for and luckily they've given us some freedom as well, and so they can just say, well, this is the look, it's going to be black, it's going to be this. We want like a military fobe, we want this, right, and then we can just take those parameters and like put our you know, our stage outfit together, right, you know? No, that is cool. Yeah, I've been having wardrobe for so long I don't even know. I don't know how to dress myself anymore. Yeah, yeah, I mean we have the white, the dwhite wardrobe, man, that's that's in town. We've got Jack of rhindstone jacket. Yeah, yeah, that's really cool. Yeah. Well, yeah, I love it because it's like old school country. On the top, hopefully have skinny jeans and Beetle Bryer. Right, it's kind of God, you know, I think a bottom. You know. Yeah, it's a lot of fun, super cool, but and it also takes the pressure off of having to dress myself. So absolutely, yeah, I mean, when you're when you're on a GIG that like provides wardrobe for you. It's great and you don't need to travel with stage clothes and you know, yeah, yeah, Star. So there are a lot of us out of work right now, waiting to get back to play and shows and touring, and I know I've had to do whatever I can do to take my mind off the situation from time to time, and one of the ways to pass the time is to catch up on some books you've missed. 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...trial if you visit audible trialcom dive, Bar Rock Star. That's audible trialcom dive, Bar Rock Star, and you can catch up on your audio reading. I'd like to take a second to thank you for listening to the dive, Bar Rockstar podcast. As a new podcast, getting the word out as a vital part of what it takes to keep the show on the road, or off the road, as the current case may be. If you would like to support the podcast, all you got to do is subscribe wherever you listen and if you have an extra minute or two, please leave a review. You can also share and follow the podcast on your social media APPS. Okay, enough begging. I hope you're having fun and once again, thank you for listening. You mentioned wedding band that we played in. It's another thing that we all that we have in common, you know, just that we can play those gigs and when we're off the road, it's a great source of income, sure, but I feel like you've also used it like you play key base all of a sudden. HMM, not really, like you started a while back, but I didn't know you as a key bass player, but I feel like you didn't. You kind of start doing that in the impulse Gig and I started doing it a long time ago. I think I st are doing it, like in another cover band I was in, and I just kind of got interested in it. And also, you know, like pretty much on every pop gig you would see the Bass player plane key bass. So I think like early S I started getting into it and when I was in another cover band, I was doing that and then I was in this original band forbid. It was like kind of like a cool jazz hiphop blend thing and I played a lot of key bass in that. And so when I joined impulse, the wedding band, I just started I started bringing the key bass along because we did a lot of contemporary stuff and seventy stuff that had key bass. Yeah, recordings, and I kind of looked at it as a as an excuse to get my programming together. You get my plane together. I just figured, like, I'm using the cover bands for that would, yeah, kind of prepare me for the real world. What right, you know. But I think it is really smart, because I generally don't enjoy doing that kind of work, but obviously you can't. You got to. It pays really well and if you know, it's a good it's a good thing to have. It's another Gig that I can do. It's a smart thing to take that in, work on your skills there too and use it for something bigger so that you're getting something more out of it than just the three or five hundred bucks that you're going to get in the end. Of the night. You know, that's kind of how I thought about those gigs. Like I mean, sure, it's a good way to fill in the gaps. Money's good, you know all that. But like I was like, okay, well, how can I take this and and gain from it? You know, not just monetarily, how can I how can I hone my skills? How can I come out of these gigs being better than I was before? So I didn't need to, I didn't need to do any vocals. And impulse you have for bad this lead singers up front. So, like right, vocals were never required of me. No one asked me to sing. So I'm like, you know what, I'm going to just work on my synth bass stuff, you know, just try to get my programming together, try to you know, match the sounds on the records and try to try to, you know, build a library of sounds which I have, and then that those all those sounds that I built from doing those gigs. Like that's coming handy on other gigs, like when I've had to do stuff with Gwen or Shanayam, kind of programming was already there right other, you know, other tunes I had to program sounds for that's great. So it's yeah, just kind of always looked at those gigs as as a way to just hon my skills for something else. Yeah, because I never wanted to stay there. I never wanted to stay like that be my career. So it's like, you know, yes, it is great for the time being, right, and this is filling in the gaps, but I want to I want this to make me a better musician somehow. Right. Yeah, and for me it was like the reading in that band that you mentioned before. It was pretty intense. So I was like, well, I'm gonna get better. Yeah, and Bernie dressle was on on it at the time and it's just like keeping up with him and reading those charts. It's like it was really, really, really challenging and after sure, after going back and doing it for a couple of years, you know, it made me better. Yeah, absolutely, that's a good, good thing. So you have probably one of the most extensive collections of gear I've have anyone I know. Keeps on growing. Yeah, how many bassis do you think have you? Do you have an inventory list? I do. I think it's between twenty five and thirty. Wow, yeah, I know guys would have more than that. Like I've got a buddy in New York who's he doesn't play for a living, but he's a collector and he's got like a hundred and fifty basses now. It's like scattered everywhere. He's got like some of his in Laws House, sum it is New York apartment. He's got a Lake House of Massachusetts. He's got like fifty there. So we all were always talking, you know, nerdy about gear and stuff. Right, right, right. But yeah, my collection is kind of has grown about, yeah, maybe almost thirty. And so how do you pick what you're going to bring to a Gig? Um, yeah, just kind of think of what what would be the right you know situation for the Gig, what kind of you know bass and amp and effects and all that. And a lot of times if I if I think there's...

...something better than what I have, I'll get it. You know, like that's usually when I when I buy instruments, is when I have a GIG. Right. I don't usually buy them when I'm just like, you know, not working, because that's bad time to spend money on gear. And let's they have two necks, right. Yeah, unless covid hits and you're drunk looking on reverb and you see a double neck steinberger copy. Yeah, I mean, I haven't done that, but somebody. Yeah, I'm gonna Guy, I know. Yeah, I went to dinner at your plays the other minute day and I meant to try to play, I mean about all about it. Yeah, another like I gotta play that base at just the time, and it's fretless on the top, yeah, and yeah, right on the bottom. Yeah, which to me is like a great idea. It would be. I mean, I don't know about the steinberger part, but dude, be a great smooth jazz bass, because you could go back, you know, surely you just yeah, have to change bassis. Yeah, because I'm like the opposite. I'm like a one bass dude, like I have now. I have a five string. You got a bunch here? I yeah, I have like ten, but more of I use them in recordings or they're just older basis, like that modulus over there, and I'm in my studio now, so I'm pointing out. anyways, that was like my main smooth jazz bass forever and yeah, endorser awesome. But then I got the Stingray, Yep, and I greeted that for another five or six years as all I played, Haha, and then I got offender jazz five string. Huh. That's kind of my still my main acts, and I have the P that's a five string. Yeah, but but so it's it makes it easier for me. And I also think that's another thing that's sort of struck me once I got out of the smooth jazz, because the smooth jazz in particular, it's like, if you just have a cool tone, that's who you are. I feel like yeah, whereas now I'm in the country thing and it's like, Oh, you need a pee bass with flat ones and you need, you know, there's a certain sounds that from certain records and that's what that or modern rock. You know, it's a much more like no, I want that vintage sound from that thing and that thing, whereas I feel like the smooth jazz thing anyways, or contemporary jazz, it's like, no, you're kind of hiring me for that bass sound. Yeah, you know, you can kind of just have one Basse and that be your sound and that's you, you know. Right, you're not trying to really emulator or record or vibe or anything like right, right, so are you listening to a record when you're, yeah, you know, trying to decide your listen to the record. Yeah, usually, and I mean you know, in most cases the artist doesn't really know where care like, right. I mean, I could get away with playing the Shanai Gig on one base. I could play a five string jazz or something. I'd be fine, right. But also with that Gi guy can have have several basses, like we've got, you know, I've got a tech. They can do handoffs with me and maintain everything for me. Right. There's never been like a limit as to how much gear I can store anything like that, you know. So it's kind of like I can do different basses. So I do. I play. I played, you know, a few different forms of p bassis on that Gig, different tunings. There was a few that I few songs that I play a tune to step down. They're still PYBASS, but but they're like, you know, require a low D so right, so I use I use a PBASS tuned to step down for maybe like five songs. They use a standard tuned p Bass for some of the more traditional country stuff she does. That's maybe like three songs. And then I don't really love playing five string. I play it when I have to. But a lot of this stuff with her was recorded s in it and it has now low stuff, you know, the low notes. So, yeah, I play four strings that are tuned bead. I've got two different four strings tune bead and then actually one for a couple of songs. They've been knocked down a half step. So they're in B flat. So I tuned out to be flat. Wow, just so I can like on the end hit like a thunderous low B flat. Yeah, cool, that's cool. And it's like yeah, like I said, like I could get away with one bass on that Gig if I wanted to, but I don't know, I don't have to write. Yeah, and for me, like playing some of the more rock stuff or country stuff with her, I want to play PBASS. So, you know, if I have to play Pebass, tune to step down like that's that's great. Got You. And then with Gwen there's kind of like to sounds basically like her solo stuff. A lot of it is like kind of, you know, more modern pop, and I play five string on that. I've got a music men sterling five that I play on that and that's just standard. And then like yeah, for emulating Tony from no doubt I need to have something this just standard tuned that just kind of has a pretty, you know, aggressive tone. Yeah, so I'm playing a couple different FANO for string basses. Gochia on that. That's cool. But again it's like if I want to just play one five string on the whole Gwen Gig, I could. She wouldn't know the difference. She right, care, right, but just because I can, I have a tech that again will hand bassis right. So, yeah, because I can, like you know, I use a few different things. Yeah, cool, Godgy and I I borrowed your for string on the air supply. Get anything. Okay, I brought my five and then you're for. I never played it. So I shouldn't say borrowed, but you offered, so I was like well, I'll just have it there for the backup. Do you remember what you what songs you played that for string on versus the five, or did you mostly play the for? I'm mostly played the...

...for guy and I would have played that if it were just left up to me, I would have played that whole Gig Gunn for because, like all the air supply hits. I mean that was done in the S and S. Yeah, that's all pebass pretty much. You know it, right, right. But the guy who's on the GIG before me, he was there for about sixteen years and it was all five stringing, right, a lot of low, low, low stuff that I like. I would have approached it differently because they were used to that. I had to come in with a five string. So there were some tunes that I felt I could just get away with playing for string, like a lost in love was one cows. That's it's all a blur at this point. Yeah, it's it's in anyways. But so I just tried to get away from the five string. Even with them. I played my bass is tuned down. I played a my PBASS was it was at Mulan p Bass that was tuned tune step down in my five string was just keep down as well. Oh, and that was just because they had like, I think, one or two songs that had like a low it was an a or B flat, and I just thought it was cool as kit hit that thunderous low note at the end. Yeah, yeah, and then they're very much about low end totally. Yeah, yeah, but I tried. You know, I don't. I don't love staying in that register and a five string. Like I said, I don't. I played five for when I have to. So, like I kind of got away from that, but I couldn't get away from it completely. Yeah, like they were so used to that. The Guy who'd been doing it was there sixteen years. So I didn't I didn't want to come up with something completely new. Yeah, you know, yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, that's a tricky part about you know, coming in to any situation, it's like there's the record. Do they want it like that, or is it there's the old bass player who's been there? But yeah, I do it like that and it's like figuring out the balance between and in where are you and all of this. Yeah, it's and I always ask that when I start. Yeah, started get like what what did you like or dislike about the guy before right, you know, because they might hated it then. I rather then I would have been like okay, for string and I think with their spot was probably like, you know, I just had asked and they were kind of indifferent. But the MD Aaron was probably like that what they're kind of used to this. Maybe you know dry stay with that, but you know, with like Schneider Gwen, like they don't really really no work, are you know, as long as it sounds like the record. Right. So you had a solo album a while back, did about ten years ago, which I thought was really great actually listening to it today. Just thank you to remember again great players and stuff, and I remember like watching you at Caffe cordiall and I and and buying an eight track, ha ha, yeah, which I didn't really read idea. Yeah, it was just like a packaging thing. It was like I had these download cards that the artwork interface with the with the labels that I had made for these eight tracks. The eight tracks weren't like my music wasn't on the eight the eight track was just fancy packaging for the roundload card. Because are you handed to me and like I don't know what's on it, but here here's. Yeah, I mean I just bought like I just went to the first store by my house and like bought all the eight tracks they had and they just put my own labels on. My head. A graphic designer make labels, so I just put the labels on the eight track, affix the download card to it and then shrink rap that. I got a little shrink rapper and I was just kind of a fun way to like a fun way to package it. Yeah, totally ill yeah, brilliant. Yeah, but it was a great record to thank you great players. Thank you. Yeah, Steve Farroni was on that. I had him do one track. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, how did that? Well, I had Brian Auger, the Bethree player, on it. He I toured with Brian for years and Steve Arroni was was in Brian's band, Brian Auger's living express. Steven see it was a drummer, Steven Bryan, a real tight and I hadn't done much playing with Steve. I think maybe I did one record with him or something, maybe a gig or something. But because I was going to Brian on this one track, it was kind of a Brian Feature, kind of wanted to get Steve on it because, you know, just have some of that yeah, old school living express vibe. Yeah. So, yeah, Steve Kim and played that one track Brian. Yeah, yeah, I mean tons of great players. Check it out. It's called let the Games begin. But you also told me the other day, I don't know if you're announcing this what you're that you're working on a new record. Yeah, yeah, I've been been writing during quarantine. It's always been the back of my mind that I need to do another, another solo project, and this was a good time to do it. So I've just been kind of kind of writing when I feel creative. That hasn't been every day, but, like you know, when it's flowing. I've been come up with some tunes and already set a date, already hired a producer and studio and I'm really stoked Jim Scott is going to produce it. He'd like produced all the tedesky trucks band records. Nice, did some stuff with like Tom Petty and will coo and like tons of people, his resume is like yeah, it's crazy, wow. I did I did one session at his studio about a year ago, just a a record as a session player, and it's amazing. It's just like a playground of vintage gear and I was kind of like, you know what, when it comes time to do a record, I want to call Jim and see if we can make something happen and luckily he was. He was into it. So I think we're going to go in at the end of June, beginning of July, and that's awesome. Crank this out. So then you have to come back on cool. Yeah, I won't play some tracks and yeah, I would love to. So...

...is it going to be the same kind of more jazzy stuff, or it's gonna be instrumental? kind of instrumental groove kind of stuff, kind of similar to like some of the some of the groove albums that John Schofield did, like John Scofield band, like Uber Jam bump. There's two albums have been kind of an influence. Obviously it's going to be a little more bass focused. It's going to have some elements of like Instrumental Government Mule and Black Crows, like some of that kind of like southern rock bluesy kind of stuff as well. Cool, all old school, vintage, like you know, Pebass, like. I'm not I'm not doing any slapping on it or anything. It's all going to be pretty pretty old school kind of stuff. So do you slap much anymore? I don't think that I've slapped on a GIG for yeah, maybe ten years, even a kind of kind of gone out of style everywhere except the smooth jazz world. Yeah, it is. Slapping is alive and well in the smooth yeah, but it's like you've spent so much time learn how to do it. Yeah, and now it's just like I don't even remember the last time I had to do now. I mean I got really I got really into it for a while, like, I mean I'm Martin's Miller still one of my favorite players ever, and Larry Graham. Yeah, that's why I incorporated some of that in my first album. But this salad I'm not. Yeah, I'm kind of in a different place. Yeah, and it's just like it's just not it's not in style anymore. Yeah, it's like people always make fun of it now. Yeah, I was like, Oh, you know, that's old music, I know, kind of. Yeah, like slapping and fretless or like two things that that are fun, that I've spent a lot of time on. Better, just not in style right now. Yeah, you know, but I think like kind of the old school, old school grew stuff will never really go out of style. Yeah, you know, a p Bass with flat wounds will never go out of stock. Right exactly now. I know, I got to get one of those more gear. Yeah, exactly, I know. The recording thing is where it really gets fun to me to start switching up and you know, I got plugins for days, so all kinds of amps I can use in a couple in here, you know. Yeah, but I don't know the live thing. I guess I'm just lazy about it. Really I just want to go out and just have it there and just play and go home. Luckily, I mean like the way technology is now, like that's that's easy to do. Like you can bring a kemper or line six yeks with you and getting pretty much any sound. Yeah, any sound you can imagine. You know, I use tempers on the on the Gwen and Shanaia Tours, and mean teasing of any cabinets at all. No, just offstage Kempers and men those things sounds so good. Yeah, it's a magic box. Can sound like any amp or any effect. The great it's like you can take that to any GIG like any local gay. You can just bring bring a little temper with you and have every sound you need. You know. MMM, yeah, yeah, pretty cool. Well, thanks for common man man. It's pleasure, pleasure hanging out and chatting. Yeah, and as bass players we don't, you know, I mean you, you tend to entertain sometimes, so I get to see you, but it's not like we had a general base player. Don't hang yet whatever, you end up on a GIG together and we're not. We're together. So yeah, it's it's always a pleasure being able to talk to you and total base and Tawaik so likewise man, and I think you have a lot to offer because you're super successful and you've come out to La and done it. Do you feel like you've made it now? No, no, I feel like any musician you ask like that, it will say the same thing, like I feel good about where I've gotten, like I've gotten to where I wanted to be, you know, like I came here just kind of wanted to tour the world with with big pop stars, a big bands, and I've gotten to do that, you know, but I want to keep doing it. You know, I don't feel like I've made I don't feel like I've reached some pinnacle where I'm like, Oh, I can stop now, right, I mean sure I could. I mean I can look back saying, you know what, I had some great experiences and played with some great people and that was great, but I don't feel like I've liked reached the top or made it. You know. Yeah, I feel like I've just I've gotten to a point in my career where I want to be and I just want to keep I want to stay in it, I want to keep doing it. Yeah, you know, yeah, I think that's that's true too, and it's funny because you look at some guys and you're like Li s klar something. You're like this guy must never worry about anything because he's been...

...on every record and he's got his great career, but I'm sure there's days when he's like, I don't have a Gig, and you know, it's like, oh, sure, I think that's the nature of being a professional musician that you're sort of never done. You know, I also used to say it's like they don't tell you you got to pay your dues, but they don't tell you that you never really stopped paying your true you know, and new drove from playing a stadium of Twentyzero people to playing some dudes backyard party in a week absolutely and then back to the stadium, and it's like that's really what it is. Right, but I think it comes down to just the fact that we all love to play. You know, I didn't. I didn't come out and come to La to make it. I came to La to play music. You know, that's I think. I think most, most musicians will say the same thing, like they didn't come here to like get famous or get rich. Right, so, maybe some did, but I think just the bottom line is we all just came out here to play and make whatever we could happen happen, you know, right, yeah, you know. And never sure, that's kind of the the bottom line. Like I you know, if I'm not on tour playing stadium's, like I would love to go do a fun Bar Gig, and I do that like you do that until like I got a couple like just kind of local bar gigs, like dive bar gigs, right, you know, dive Bar rock star stuff, you know exactly. That are just fun. I mean I've got to the point where the gigs I do, even if they're like bar gigs, they're fun with great people. Yeah, I'm not doing those gigs because I have to, because I need the hundred bucks in there, you know. So there are certain bands and gigs that I want that I won't do that. I kind of feel like I've I've been there, done that. But, like, another great thing about La is that you walk into any dive bar and generally the musicians are pretty high level. Yeah, that's the cool thing. It's like. I've got, you know, tons of friends, as you do to that are just, you know, touring professionals that will that will do fun bar gigs from time to time and it's important. It's a blast, you know. Right. Yeah, well, that's awesome, man. Well, you've definitely made it in my eyes. I will thank you. Thanks are coming over things, for being on the show. That was fun. Let's do it again. All right, sounds great. Sweet Bar Star Man, I tell you, Derek is one of the greatest guys and the one of the most professional people that I've ever met or ever work with or sort of for subbing for him, and I think that's my biggest takeaway or the thing that I loved about it. Derek is one of the most prepared people I've ever known, and sometimes that's enough just to get you the Gig over a more wellknown or maybe even a more skilled guy sometimes. I mean Derek is extremely skilled but that little edge of showing up knowing the material or charting it all out for people. It really can put you over the top as far as getting gigs because at the end of the day we're talking about a job. You know, this is this is what it is. It's a job. People need you to do a job, so they don't always need the most incredible, flashy player. That was all the crazy chops. It's really good to have those. Don't get me wrong, they're pretty important, but at the same time, preparedness is something that's often forgotten by some of the best guys. I mean it's I'm not going to name any names, but you'd be kind of surprised. It's some of the people that fail to just be prepared and just show up to the GIG man and ready to go. You know, such a tricky weird thing, but Derek is just really fabulous guy when it comes to all of that stuff and he's a great hang and it was really great having them on the show. Oh one thing I'd like to clarify is that air supply is really Graham Rustle and wrestle hitchcock, and they have a band that they're they're loyal to us to but when we were saying those guys are them, I think we were mostly talking about those two guys who founded the band and wrote all the songs and sang all the songs. But they have a fabulous band. Aaron McLean's their musical director. So definitely go see them, but just just wanted to clarify that. I hope you enjoyed the show. I really enjoyed making it and we'll talk to you on the next one. Wow, you've made it to the end. I'm hoping it's because you completely enjoyed yourself and are now filled with knowledge and inspiration to move forward with your dreams. If that is the case and you would like to stay informed of new episodes, live events in general news, please go to dive Bar rockstarcom and sign up for the mailing list. If you have any questions, comments, corrections or complaints about anything you here on the show, please email me at fan mail at dive Bar Rockstarcom and you may even end up on the show. We at the dive Bar Rockstar podcast with all of our hearts. Thank you for listening and remember, it's all about dreams.

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