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The Dive Bar Rock Star Podcast
The Dive Bar Rock Star Podcast

Episode 15 · 1 year ago

Cory James- We’re Living In A Chops Era (Trixie Mattel)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Multi-instrumentalist and musical director, Cory James, reveals his favorite instrument to play. He talks about his experience as musical director for RuPaul’s Drag Race All Stars winner, comedian and singer/songwriter, Trixie Mattel. He provides some insight to the life of a young musician just coming up during, arguably, the worst time to be a musician. He discusses the importance of chops and when to use them. Cory also talks about growing up with a musician for a Dad.

Trixie Mattel Live:

https://youtu.be/EaPphXUWsVY

Do you love audiobooks? You can get athree thirty day trial: membership to audible, dotcom by visiting audivilletrial, dotcoms lash dive bar rocks star. They have thousands of audio Boovtitles as well as podcast, guided wellness programs, theatricalperformances, Alis, comedy and exclusive audible originals. You won'tfind anywhere else, get your free trial membership, an audible trial, dotcom,Flash Dibar, Rockstar, welcome to the Diebar rock star,podcast, a show, exploring the lives of professional musicians of all typestouring, musicians, recording artists, songwriders engineers, barbands weddingbands and anyone making their living in the music industry, whether you'vedreamed of being a professional or you already are one. This is the podgastfor you on your host Eric Banes, and I hope that you not only find someentertainment here, but also some helpful tips, trade secrets and ideasthat will help you achieve your dreams. So I hope you can bear with me a littleon this episode, because I'm in Los Angeles and I've been trying to stayinside, but it's really hard to avoid the smoke in the air from all of thefires. It's if you look at a map. It really looks like the whole Westernhalf of the. U S is on fire Um and it's I don't know after I don't know, we'vebeen going through this for four days or so, and it's even though I've beenstraying inside as much as I can it's hard to avoid and it's starting toaffect my voice. So please bear with me. I hope you can understand me. One of the cool things about doing this.PODCAST is that I get to see the analytics and see who's listening andas a person who tours and loves to travel, which is one of the biggestreasons I got into this this music game. It's fun to see the other countriesthat are listening to the podcast and like Canada, UK, but also some of thecrazier places that that I've been to like South Africa and Latvia. ThePhilippines, which we just talked about in the last episode: Brazil, Japan,Hong Kong, Mexico, Finland, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, H, CzechRepublic and the list just literally keeps going. So it's it's reallyexciting. It's really fun just know that I know that you're listening and Ireally appreciate it. My dream- and my hope is that one day all of this will be better andI can get back on the road and think all of you in person. So hopefully I'llsee you out there at some point. This pandemic has been pretty devastating tothe entertainment industry, obviously, but I'm not sure, what's worse, beingan established musician with a mortgage and a family to support or or being ayoung guy who's, just finally getting his career off the ground and has therug pulled out from under him, and my guess today has exactly the latterscenario. Unfortunately he's a drummer multainstrumentalist and singer. I talka lot about being a versual player. You know to get more gigs on this show, buthe's taken into a totally different place by being able to play Mi multipleinstruments, ind being versonal in that way, and playing instruments at a highenough level that he can be playing gigs on on more than one he's.Currently, the musical director for comedian, singer Songrider andDragqueen triky Matel, and if you haven't checked her out, check her outit's it's totally amazing she's, really funny and she's a great singer and agreat songwriter, it's pretty pretty impressive. I would check it out onYoutube. Um and I've played a ton of bargigs with him. He's a great kid he'sa great musician, and I hope you enjoy my conversation with Corey James. You are a multi instrumentalist whichthank you. I didn't really know. I thought you were just a drummer. Okayand next thing you know ' e you're taking my gigs as a bassplayer and akeyboar player, and you sing. Have I missed anything UM? Do you play guitar? I do playguitar. I don't like to play. Guitar, Oh yeah, it's probably my leastfavorite instprment. I just don't like talked to my friend about this lastnight. Actually, I like the only type of guitar I like is like Eddy VenHalenton, where it kind of sounds like a synp like or I mean I also love allanhold'sworth, but that's kind of a different MMFIELD, a right for sure the heavy distortion. You know justthat that fulness as like the only sound of a guitar, that's really hit mewhere I've liked it. I think it's a necessary instrument, I just for me itdoesn't doesn't work kon the same way about base. I just ended up playing it.Three years I mean known that I I was...

...the baseplayer when I bought Basgorfrom I did at that point though, but I'm saying like you know, when we firstmet and everything you were, you were drummer. I don't even remember whenthat was really. I think I first maybe met you at Panchas, Yo o en you sat. Itwas a peadium of the bands, probably when I first started around likesixteen yeah en yeah Youwere, a kid still like. I know, that's why I wanted to have youon the show 'cause. We need a young perspective. Well, you look. Young EC, what mattersin the entertainment industry? I think that's right. I think that's true islieabout your agon yeah. My Dad told me that very few things, but he told me thatone so, which one do you prefer Um instruments? I mean drums for sure,so my last Gig I had was. I was on base primarily and I love playing base, butit doesn't give me the same satisfaction of plying drums like Iwent probably three months without playing drums Um for this. For thislast Hor, like I didn't even sit on the kick 'cause the drummer we had um, he, oh you met him. Yo M T youee price.He played at Noppaes. He played at a Roscoes with my dad long time ago, liketwo thousand and fourteen, probably e right after I came out of Berkeley, hecame and sat in was I there at. You were playing that O and s familiar wishin Roscos it was Joes, Jo Ocarton and yeah. That sounds familiar that wasn'tthe first time. I also asked you how to make it in the MUSC business gave mesome pointers. Your your mainpointer was by nicer clothes yeah, you knowthat's. Definitely true, anyonedo anything, yeah, that's interesting, so it did prove somewhat true 'cause Imean I kindof learned that first hand too, like I, I didn't start gettingbigger gigs until I went down to melrose and spent fifteen hundred buckson some clothes and it's a weird thing, but I mean we're inIvisual a visual medium. It's not just about how you play if you're going todo pot music anyway. Well, I think I lived in orange so long and I wastrying to make it from from you know, not La, and then I moved to L A and Irealized you know. Everybody here puts effort into how they dress eaormusician. Well, ninety nine percent of the people do, and so you have to like,if you're you're, playing behind a hot girl, you have to look good, even ifit's all black, which normally is when you're playing like hotel, cafey orsomething Ih. It's like you have to look ood and all black, so I mean I hadto Learne that pretty quick. I mean I tried to remember what you said earlier,but I didn't really apply at that time. So, right yeah, I wasn't applying iteffectively enough for me. You Know Right, Oh good, I'm glad I gave you some good advice. So do you um practice each one sort of with the same intensity likewanting to be as good at each one or is drums that that's your main thing allthe rest you've picked up or how did you drums are the thing I I care aboutthe most. I don't really care about being supertectincally proficient inthe instrument. I just want to be able to like service the music. I knowthat's kind of clichetde statement but, like that's my favorite thing music isto like have somebody trust me with their their creation in their dream. Soas long as I sound good at the song, but the most I practice like chops onis definitely drums. I Eve I've never practiced like base shops or pianoshops. I did CLASSCO Pino when I was younger, but that's all that's you know. That's theonly facility I have on that, like I can't play a jazz lake, but I can play Cordz really well yeah.Well, yeah. I mean I don't know. The last time that we played together wasat Christmas party and h Wer on Piano Orand. You started pulling all thisstevie wonder stuff with a million cords, so maybe you don't got licks,but you got jazz cor. You know, for sure I mean Stevie is one of myfavorites, so I have to learn his songs, like you know, Llit's a good education rightthere, one of the best you know he's, there'sthat there's that new? U To video saying like the term music theory isracist and it should be like changed to the stylings of Europeanartists in the eighteenth century or something like that. You know it's like it's it's kind oftrue, because when I took music theory like it was mostly about just classicalartists and that doesn't even cover a bit of like jazz or any of thosedifferent voice, things that you hear all the time so hi mean well that'sinteresting, because you went to Berkeley as many of our my guests havegone to, and so did I. So when I think of musictheory, it has nothing to do with classical music in my head because Iwent to a jazz school, you know with Bebop was the the legit theory th theyteach there, I'm assuming it was way before you. So I don't know. Maybe it'schanged, so I guess they don't t the the variance there is they. I thinkthey call it classcal theory versus Music Theorye, but in most opicationslike when I was in high school, they had a music theory, class and M. that'swhy I first started like ID started drums an like. I think my t, the summerbetween junior and senior yer. So I was...

...trying to get interested in that stuffand they called them music theory and, like you know, I didn't really thinkabout it. Then I didn't really care then going to college. I took a theoryclass 'cause. I thought that's what that was. You know it. You know didn't give me anyinformation on the Stevy side of music, which I wish it had, because that's themore interesting not just interesting butlike we use that vocabulary way more yeahfor sure. If you're going to be banking, your living, that's, what's so greatabout Berkeley, that's what attracted me to it is that they care about. You know you making money up musicoutside of outside of college wence. You get done. You know like, and it's avery m. it's a Mor. You know it's arguable, you know! Well I don't know what was your? Whatwas your experience? I don't know how much they'd care about you invalbly forsure, not there's, definitely Um Berkeley. I feel, like I learned a lotmore from my peers than I ever learned from any of my teachers, your teachersKinda. If Yeo, like every teacher, I've had, I actually study with TailanCarrington O, you know yeah, Oh yeah, obviously a famous Jos reerrig yeah,but she uh was super disappointing, like she, wetaught like a she taut, like onsma class, not really non some of Thoeselike a drum lab, and we had like ten drummers in the room, shoe showm high,every single class, and like would snap at you. If you didn't get somethingright and it was like you know, it was kind of that whiplashed kind of thing,but if you're high, weird dynamic in that Class- and shelike, if you were a jazz drubber, she really like showed you more favor onthere's. So many different types of dummers of Berkeley. It's just like atea, I wouldn't say: that's th t. That was my typical experience. I just feellike overall, I learne more from my peers than I did. My teachersinteresting. Well, that's kind of why you go there too, though,because it's just full of musicians and the greatest ones from all parts of theworld, and you know they have the sheds, if you're living in a door where youcan other twenty four seven. If you want to just playing you know, sothat's kind of, I think that's good. That's part of the should be part of the experience, but Ithink that's interesting too, because you know the old adtades like them.That can't do teach it also. You know those that can do. Aren't always goodteachers yeah exactly and that's a perfect example she's, a nominal dermerright. I had an onsembl with Fred, Llipsius Wen. I don't even I don't evenknow if he's around anymore, but he want to gramme for what goes up when'scomn down. He wrote that arrangement. He was bar of bloodwent a teears. Hewas a Saklar and just the strangest dude I've ever even encountered like hedidn't. He would barely even talk really. He just he'd like call a tuneand he'd start planning, and then he would be like no and he'd. So the piano-and he just play it and not really tell you what he wasdoing. You know like I'm trying to SA. I mean obviously you've got knowledgein there. That's that I need, but how do I get it out in a way? That's youknow. It's really funny M my arranging teachers, a D my composing teacherswere exactly the same like they would get lost in their own facility. Youknow thelike IAM, so good, and then you wouldn't you like. Okay, I I can't Teah,who show me Ra relly, never would because, like I don't think any studentis brave enough to speak up to their teachers. At that point, a d be like Istop that you know yeah like that was my at least everything in in private.Lessons, too, was when teacher was trying to show you something and thenthey would just chop out afterwards for, like thirty sex, toback, okay rightlike that's, not why I'm here you're great, obviously right I tell soI taught after Berkeley knows my main thing. For a few years and Um, I tellmy students not to apply there. Actually, ohin wow, it's that that bad,I think it's just so expensive and you're, only really paying for theconnections really and you coal make thosesame connections here. Ilike, ifyou put yourself in the circles like it doesn't matter, if you went to collegeor not for music, you just get a teacher and then go to the jams. InHollywood. You know c you ticket to the networking interestings you're goodenough. I think it'it's different from someone from La or New York orNashville because they already are there. I would definitely see that'cause. I E I've also talked to people like we'll go to MIT. If you want toend up in l a 'cause, then you're gonna, you're Gongto have the same kind ofthing. You know, but I grew up in Broomfield Colorado, so Berkeley wassort of my ticket somewhere right now, and I didn't really know about las meanas prespective definitely didn't. Well, all my students are from L A so I guessI writ it a nee to consider that respective. But if I ad live somebodyelse, yeah yeah, you're right, no I'm saying is, I think, you're right too,because you live here too. You know that's an interesting thing. I alsothink that Berkeley is a school where you need to know what you want out ofit: they're not there to like spoon feed you not enough, and if you'regoing to go there without, like even a...

...major in mind or something well, youdid professional music, which is sort of an. I don't want to pick a majormajor. The other was my. Let me spend the least amount of money for reientYeah H, but I think you can a end up spending a lot of money. If you just gothere and wander around 'cause, you know 'cause, those are the teanchersyou need to like sort of get in their heads and like get in front of theirface and get what you want out of it. I think half the kids there, though,like they either have money or they're going tremendously in debt. You KnowYep so like I know a girl that I went o school with and she came out here andthen went to school for makeup and that's what she's doing leke she'sstill working in the music industry but she's doing make up for musicians. Well,like she had some support from her parents before shewas able to go to twodifferent springs. You know, yeah, O Thato'd be a hard decision for somebodyfrom Colorado with no money yeah. Well, that's why only. I only went for threesemesters 'cause. I ran out F money right waslike. Well, even you know,just Bostin compared to Brunfiel Colorido is hard to live in Ye. Wespeakr o what d you think of Boston. I Love Boston, Yeah Boston's, one of myfavorite cities for sure Um. They just have such a nice atmospherelike every. The only thing I didn't like about Boston was th, never endingwind. Besides that it was just such abeautiful city. Boston natives can be pretty mean, I think, yeah when it'seast coast yeah. When I first moved there Um. It was right before the fallsemesters during summer and the the Celtics were playing the Lakers and Iwalked out of my apartment one night to go. Hang up my friends after the gamethis guy was so drunk. He approached me and thought I was throwing stuff ot himand Ih'd just walked out the front door so like I obviously was not throwinganything at him and I tried to walk around him as he was confronting me andhe picked me up and choked an I wed to choke hold, and I was just like this-is you know like what the Hell do? I do right, SMY, first AES with Boston B,Yeah tpan up yeah yeah. Well, it's IT's a different! Well,you grew up in L A we grew up here, like l, a proper or Orange County. Ithought you were more of a SA wasborn and Venias. Actually, oh well, righthere, a where we are now then AAs hospital or something whatever it'scalled man. I live. I think we lived here for a couple of years and thenmoved down to my mom's in orange yeah and then stay there for a while, andthen I move back up here Afterono when I was n adult right. I mean I'm still akid, but when I was an adult yeah Owell, I just think it s it's adifferent type of city. Here you know it's a paid back place, you're in Eurcar, all the time, you're like in Boston or New York, or something you'reon the street. You know a lot more you'reinteracting with people all thetime and st sort of I don't know just that in general requires some thickskin, sometimes yeah, but that's the thing about. Likethe East Coast, you always feel like you're doing something when there'speople always moving you kno yeah y energies in Tana. I MISSD that a lot.You Know New York Boston. You can't get that in L A but I don't know E. I justprefer the weather here anyway. So, objectively, I think you know betterhere, but it's like you cannot beat New York's energy asked G in in the UnitedStates least o yeah. I just all right. Well, wwe'll put your scoredown over here. E keep is core we'll se y ha e bottom ues now lot to learn. So you already mentionedyour Dad and H. Your Dad is James Clak Garrison, who, if you're from OrangeCounty or anywhere sort of in the Southland, you he's sort of a localhero, phenomenal guitar player, Singer and Um. As I mentioned, I was playing with him.When I first met you 'cause, you came in as a kid and sat in yeah, and so didyou. How was that growing up for with a musical dad? I mean that had to I m GOIt have to cut this part Oup Hno H, you know we didn't have, and I've never reallyhad the best relationship Um. I told them when I was like twelve. Idon't know if I should repe this quote, but I was like. I never want to be likeyou like meating, a musician n, interesting yeah and then Uh. I got an electronic jumpset for, likemy sixteenth bird thers, an like that or Christmas, and then I just startedblying it, and then I became a mhysician, so yeah you know Um. Ithappens whether you want you or not, righ become your parents yeah, butplaying with him was always extremely stressful. You know when he was in thisprime or shortly after obviously he was a very talented guy and he expected a lot of everybody, nomatter of their skill level. He was just like he expected them to be thebest t at they could be, which it' not a bad thing. It's just like. I don'tthink he could judge people's ability very well. So, like my ability at thetime when I first played with them, I think he wanted me to be a lot betterthan I was so he treated me like that. You know which is not o necessarilybathing. It's kind of the old SCOLVIB Rambut, it's different when it's yourfather and you're, just trying to play music for fun. Rit Right, he's takinglike you know, bargag like it's...

...in front of twenty thousand people kindof thing Ras, which is what he does yeah, that's his thing and it's ot,that's not a bad thing either it'sh, like you know, if not everyone has the same approach andit's just like at that time. I definitely wasn't there yet, and Idon't I mean I I sence have like now in my adult life, when I, when Ilead bands and stuff I kinda, have to fight some of that same mentality likeI'll expect, especially my more talented friends. All I expect way toomuch out of their playing but like if they forget, you know just in o harmonyor something LD kind of like give hem a look, and it's like. I have to stopmyself from doing my dad's things. You know 'cuethat's also. What I learnedwas like the looks that he gave you know I do that because of him. Probablyyou know I mean you know. Those looks very well I'm sure, yeah o Sur yeah, Imean he never. You know he was always pretty nice tome, but I've seen him Hevei've, seen it pes Omers for sure I think so. Yeahlike he, you know Jimmy Packs and he's played with the best o stevie necks.You know it's like Dici jkshe's played with the last MORSO. You know all thishuge people and it's like I saw him, give you know I Sawt Mydad give Jiy, somany looks just like what it doesn't make any sense to me. It's like justtry to enjoy playing with this guy yeah have a good vibe yeah I mean itdefinitely can kill the fun for sure. So, just hearing you say that you fightthat it makes me feel happy. 'causeyeah there's you know, that's the thingabout certain bandleaders for sure th kind of a pet peeve for me, especiallylike you're, say when you're at a Bargig you're making a hundred buckslike get off my ass bral yeah. I mean it's so I I when I whenI'm like a bandleader for a bigger show. Obviously, I'm going to be harsher andI'm going to be like more ascertive about it, but I think also theexpectations are are bigger, so, like the PP, the musicians usually fight tomeet those versus bargangs, where they don't right so yeah I mean well andusually the payis better for you're. You know attracting better musicians.You know that that are taking this or even any kind of musicians, althoughno I'm the kind of guy that's like. If I take your Gig, I'm gonna, no matterwhat it pays, I'm I'm giving you my all. You know, but not everybody's like that,and sometimes they show up to a Bargi with a different attitude, but whenyou've got a decent gig with Usean pay, they might show up and be prepared- and I will say, like expanding on playing with my dad overthe years like there's some stuff. He does that's really great that I thinkshould be houhlighted like there's, not many people that will purposely like move tempos forsections just to create a vibe or help like with the crowd. I think that'ssomething my dad really excelled. That was, you know if you felt like thecrowds. Energy was lowering, he kindof lowere the Tembo and kind of likeforced the Germar lower the temple with his playing waly singing, which isreally impressive like if we're going into chorus. I know thit's like a lotof older players. I feel like know this, like you, should speed up, maybe acouple of B PM to give more energy, but the way he'd command it while playingand seeing its just super impressive. It was never ending like every singlesong. Even if it's like the Sublime Cu, you know sublime cover, you would stilldo it and I think that's something that most people don't consciously do atleast, and that's incredible that he's able to do that. Yeah yeah, I mean that's. I mean the potgass called Divarokstar Odye, like he's the quint essential example of of thathe knows how to work a crowd. He knows how to work a crowd over the span ofthree sets. You know a whole night and l e you know knows how to pace that, to where you know, people a e workedinto a frenzy by the end. Well, I love your thoughts. However n you went toschool and then Youv you played for for some years with Your Dad Ri in bars andclubs. For me, like we did a tonic iks together as like a trio or or more morethan that, don't you think that's important at thesame time like like you as a player, just in the three years that I probablyspent playing with, you grew leaps and bounds that you couldn't get out ofBerkleay. Oh absolutely, I think I learned what I learned from my dad. Themost was like how to shut the fuck oup and play a song. I just play a drum group throughout thewhole song and, like I notice how you know, I look back in those earliervideos and how terrible my fiel was and coming out of Berkley. It's like allyou focus on his chops call. Your peers are doing that and you know whathappens is most kids move out to L A and they're like? Oh I'm going Ta getski 'cause. You know I can chop, do every chop in the book, but it's sodifferent when you move out here, like nobody wants to play with that. GuyRight I mean people want to play with a guy. They can shop. Hey can hold ituntil the right moment right right, NAT's. My Dad planw Madaw was more likeholding your chops, the entire Gig and then maybe for ten seconds, lettingyour chops go. So that was kind of frustrating an coming out of Brirkeley,but it definitely taught me how to be...

...more patient. EAH Yeah and like theGroove, is what it is right. Let's start there Ri, you know yeah, that'sinteresting. A you also kind o come up came up when Thi the Gospel shop thinghas been huge, you know, and I've had a lot of drummers on gigs and that's howthey approach every song. And it's it's a really tricky thing and I rememberwhen you're fresh out of Berkeley- and you start playing it's just- It waslike thise Gospel Chops of what you probably looked up to opercentdde. Ijust need two and four: You know it's kind of the Olo Cliche, but it's Ithink it was. I don't know Thi H, this whole GospelChop Ara. I think we're sort of over it. I don't see it a lot anymore out in theworld as much as there. It was maybe even five or six years ago. I thinkwe're more in a chop culture like for B for younger musicians like it t' justabout drums anymore. It's about every instrument. How hard can you chop? Ithink Gospel chobs. That phrase is Kondo over, but I don't think the eraof like chopper chopping drummers is over. I think that will be over fiveten years. Hopefully I think, but I also think it's Stupir cool 'cause.It's like, I don't think the average gumber has ever been thisgood like technically this good interesting. You know, I think, there'salways been great dammers, obviously, but I think for probably for every instrument stickas like. You know: Instrmn Utub, like so many proficient musicians, yeah andthat's always pushing us, especially if you're a guy. You know Youhave Bet Tessautroand. It's like you have to be better rig. So it's like it's pushingyou to practice, and you know it kills a lot of people's drive for the love ofmusic. But it's like it makes you. You know you can play your Osse off yeah but yeah. I was definitely gearedtowards Gospel Chops and I still love Hem. I mean I I I love both field. Youknow, I love Jazz jops. I don't have ery many Jaz tubs. I mean I neverplayed jazz but like Gospel Chops, translate to pop really well, if youuse them right ray and so that's why I like them, B'cause they're, sodigestible- and you know I mean they're, not I mean I hate using the term Gospelchilds, but yeah I don't mean to offend anyway, but it it. It was a term out inthe world. Ou Kno, like themade a youtub channel about it, but I e that I think when you save themand use them right, the line you're kind of drumming is is you know why Ito call it and that that I think, is very useful? It's just you know morevocabulary. Yeah, THAT'S REALLEROURHORDEN! Yeah 'cause! I thinkthat's another to do like there's these other ways of approaching it where it'slike. All I do is grove. There was an era ofthat too. You know like Ricky Lawson, one of the most recorded dudes awesome.I played gigs with Hem. I saw him play many times, not a choped guy, like W.I've seen him like the bands pointing at him ready to go and he just keepplaying it down. You know, and I don't see right like he does, do the samething ie. I don't think I've ever SEEN HIM TO BE O. Oh yeah, so I've alwaysbeen at the school like you gotta. Do It all? If you really want to be aversal player Utare the best guys, you would never know it all night long.You know you know. Trjoe travers yeah remember the first time I've playedwith him and he's another Berkeleay Guy, and I've done a bunch of gings now, butthe first time I played with him the whole first set I was like Wthis is JoeTravers, like I've heard all these stories and and on the last song he just woke up and started blowing, and I aslike what and I as like, like that- is my favorite thing right there that'slike play tastefully and then wh n. But when someone points to you, you got toblow mind. You know what I mean D, You dow the Baseburr of Joe Cleveland. Idon't he's like a really popular basically right now. He does all likethe Vig Furthenzildan kind of jam things, and it was the same thing. Iwent to see him at the federal and Noho and there were two drummers is just andbepers drummer had just gotten off the tour and et was this other gemer. Idon't now and Um. He played groove like ninety ninepercentof the night, and it was the same thing. There was one space for afill and he filled it with every note. He could and then went right back intothe group, and I was just like Holy Shit like that's amazing, that's whyhe's called all the time you know yea, both so well yeah, but I think thatprocess like like I was talking about like going to Berkeley, learn all thatstuff. That's only one part of the process, then you get out of college.Now you gotto go get a Bar gig. You got to know how to apply all that stuff.You know so that was such a great. I don't know. I think it would. I think,you're lucky to have had that just kind of handed to you in a certain way. You KNO,I think it helped me listen to music more in general, likenot just listen to myself, you know, yeah, that's something a lot of twentyyear old players. Do It's just they just wanto hear themselves be fastright. So let's talk about this, the most reason to er you were on becauseyou were a musicaldirector and you...

...played bass. You play keyboards and yousang none of which is drumming. I actuallyfilled it on one GIG on drums, I recorded the baseparts 'cause, our ourdrummer had a kidney stone, an Ye had to go to the hospital at drag yeah. Itwas right before the show, and so that was probably my o've got to be thehero. One of my favorite shows yeah 'cause. I just go o play drums on I.You know that was like a month and a half after not playing drums, so itdidn't feel the best, but it satisfied my soul for the rest of the tour forsure Um playing base and keys on that tour waswas a blast, though I got to like show off my vestility a little bit and havesome see have some clips and pictures and e playing other intruments on a bigstage, which is great, I mean I don't Kn well we're talking about. DrinkyMatel was, is she won? The drag drag Queen W at Drag Lae all star Wa. Shewas like sixt place on the seventh season yeah, and then she won the ashe's, a old farmas drag Gen, yeah and man. I gotto tell you, after kind ofwatching her all day, she's she's, so awesome, she's, really good inte, Tener,really funny 'cause, she's also sort of standup and but then she startedsinging. I I saw the clup of you guys in New York and on that live stream,and the songs great yeah, like her. Her countryi stuff, is like her bread andbutter, and it's actually really like. I feel like it's really meaningfulmusic. It's like the one that comes from her soul, yeah and that's thestuff that I I would have liked to actually play mor on the tour, and youknow I mean obviously when you have all of her fans like the pop stuff. Is it'smore energetic but Rightyou know when you're a musician y you like to playsongs? It's like the the meaningful stuff feels the best so yeah. Well, Ipersonally, I like, like both like she started with Jessie Jesse Igh that' ONScray, Toperyea yeah, and I think the thing is the lyrics are so great sokind of I didn't care 'cause. Then she did a couple of you know the more Idon't even want to say Countri, it's more folk, O Americana, Um and that'sgreat too, but all the time, I'm just like the songs are so great. I don'teven care how y what you wrapp them in you know what I mean I mean. Luckilyyou watched that show live. There were a couple of other ones. We did fordifferent radio stations that Er, if we don't wnt for adult swim, that one wasa little rough. We had like terrible monering system and it was a reallycool experience, because I love adull swim but yeah. It was just. I justdon't watch that one okay, if you're listening out there, don't thatdefinitely wow thiks placs in front of a fish tink! Oh yehwell! Now, if you keep describing,U I'm going to have to go watch it now, so maybe I'll just all put a clip O onin the part Cam as Welle. What a blessing when I rente cursed Anaknew how to have. First, you can keep me Waightin far farever,whatever Gotchou glosy Dobl covershe. Like the pictures on a Magasin, I can get your pages stuck to gatherwhatever sit in the sand. antern the tide, as I scan my Tvjessijesti my hand,you can be Min Tomelanyou know a Di Everyaearl. I could be jesses girl, Jessi girl. So how did that whole thing come aboutand to get it as a musical director? That's right. So that was a weird thing,an it's kind of your first major tour, your musical Directoron, that's a rightselting! So I was like at the point of actually like pretty much giving up onmusic like as a full time career 'cause man. I was working. Probably I think,seven days a week, six seventiyes a week for like three or four years and like I was justlike okay, this is w. You know I put in all my energy towards music and, like II looking back, I definitely didn't put it in the right directions, but I putin all my effort- and I was like trying really hard to be, like you know,financially successful as a musician and stuff like that and Um, I couldn't save any money and live inLos Angeles, so I was just like you know something ased to change. So I talked to one of my adult studentsand he's like I made a joke. Ias like you know, if you can offer me a seventythousand dollar starting job like I'm, I'm done and he's like. Are you seriousand then, like two weeks later? He he approaches me after after the banthat I was teaching and he's like you know we can do I lot better thanseventy thousand and I was just like Oh Itas, like some an email and I was likeokay and then I sent me email and literally the same day he's like yeah.We can set you up my buddy that I went...

...to college with the Dr Who's, theDrummaro, the tour. He sends me the email and he's like Yo Mano. You wantto do a tour and it was like not even like five hours difference. It was justliterlaing. I even did I even t I think I talked to you yeah. You asked me yeahyeah, I asjs. I was so conflicted about it and you know. Looking back, I thinkI mean I feel like I made the regisition, even though I would havehad a job right now. It's like I couldn't have th the experiences that I made on thestore, were you know too valuable to a blit go but rightfor the M D positionlike W O as strange. I almost was not going to be on the TOR, so they kindalike. Let me help pick the musicians they' first pickd, my friend, 'causehe'd done another tour and he met the the Ar of that company who managestricky and they liked him. So they're, like hey man, do you kno any musicians?So he asks me Heyman. Do you know any musicians? 'CAUSE? I play in L A A lot,so I know a lot of Hella musicians and I send them a list of people like twoguitar players, and then I sent him this really great keyboard player, andthen it was like. I just was like okay, I can kindof play baseball play baseand then they ended up picking one of the guitarplayers that I suggested and then didn't get the keyboar player and thenlike a month before the tour as about to go out. They're like okay, we'rejust going to do drums and guitars. So that would have left me out right andthen week later I get an email from the the manager saying or offering me a setamount of money for the TOR, and I was like wait. I was not supposed to be onthis tor all and now all of a sudden I'msupposed to be on the store and in te email. It said for MD position and I was like okay, what the Hell 's goingon, and so I mean I, you know a few females back and forth and we've got tofigured out and H. No, I just kind of suggested. I was like you know. Allthese tracks have so many keyboard parts, Wy Don IUS bring like acontroller, and you know place yer ads and they said no initially 'cause. Ithink they were worried about like transportation of of gear and STUFFG,but it ended up working out really well 'cause. I mean we needed it atrehearsals and stuff like that. It W's just like the artist kind of like tricykind of like you could tell she wanted, keep upkeyboard parts before we even talked about this. It was Kindo like just agood call yea. It was like Nice. It worked out like that, but Um yeah, Imean super terrible timing for the to happen.It was like the moent of, or was it the best time it was the best timing, butit was like I've never been more conflicted. Yeah, that's a tough one!Right I mean that's, you know it's. Sometimes it's justabout keeping right on the ball. If you really want to be a musician, you knowand it's what it's going to be forever so especially now so did you get to do?Did the whole tour happen? No, we our the last three days of our: U S tocanceled, rescheduled and then all of our European tours, you know postponeddon, so I mean the Bummer weare, just the worst timing. Yeah we were about asfar as that goes. Is that what you were talking about? Yeah we were about toplay la which, as like e was our second Toa show, and it was going to be likeour final show for us like emotionally and we were in Phoenix. We were about to play that show andthat sugar cancelled and then La got cancelled and in San Diego canceled,and then you know I wasn't so super bombed, because at that time I don'tthink anybody knew how sterious it was right and then I was like: okay, it'sokay and a month thisill be over and then we're going to go to Europe andhave a blast right and then that didn't happen and going through the time w wewould have been in like Paris during the summer. I was like souper downabout that. I was sitting at home, doing nothing yeah. I was a bomber, soyeah, that's what I I'm earlier. When we were joking around I terrible timing.So does she do like stand up? Yeah? THAT'STHE SHOWLANK! So half the shows stand up, half shos, no, probably less thanhalf the shows music. It's probably like a third music. Two thirds AH standup, but it's like also videos and just like skates and all thi stuff 'causelike when he's when he's out of drack. He does a lot of stand up like locallyto just tentime material, and so I think, like he's just a jackofballtrades like he's superbusinessman as well, he manages all of his companies.He as like a cosmetics company. It's like nuts, how much this guys does likeas soon as he wakes up he's on his phone on, like you know, twittereddoing that that job doing a social media, job right and then all thisbusiness stuff as well. It's crazy! I don't think I've ever met somebody thatworks as hard. I think if people have the opportunity to work as hard, theymight, but he does it. It has a great time doing it. So it's like surprising.I've never really seen that before. Well, that's what it takes, Eah forsure htas. The great thing about the tour as well as like it was just likesuper smooth. Like T E, we had a really nice bus. It was like brand new and itwas just like nobody messed it up. I mean people would leave their shit onthe benches all the time but like it's just like there was no stress on thebus. It was just like o like play Video Games, how fun talk, but no drugs, noou. No, nobody got wasted, treat cool so as a musical director. What's your approach like? Are you? Didyou charge everything out, or did you...

...like just in recordings to everybody?So that was another thing that was weirdabout the music director or position Itas, like you know, music directorsobviously usually take care of tracks and and rehearsls, and all that stuff Ikind of like came up with arrangements. I didn't. I asked everybody if theywanted charge, I made throce for myself, but nobody else really wanted charttherewas only yo o three ban, mumbers and theyrigh I' really care like theguatar players, stuper grade Zakensky, now, like Gatar player when he uh helearneds songs super quickly and well and like you know they alsaid know, andthen most of what I did was just like lead, rehearsals and and kind of dolike live arrangements for the songs. Are you trying to recreate the recordor right most of the songs? I don't feel like had much room to to grow in excitement. I feelikethey'realready pretty exciting. I added for Jessie jesty. I addeded. I added some adjustments to the bridge, mainly'cause. That's like a part where KINDOF like sits in the same rethm over andover, and it needs to be more exciting, but most of or songs didn't need much.They just needed that little push and that's kind of what I did. I kindatryed to keep it mostly to the Albman then had ezactte guitarplayer. Just crank is distortion overdriveand, just shred, you know yeah.I was like that's all you need. That's awesome Y, an Yo guys rehearse a lot.We went to Seattle, our first shows in Seattle and then we spent the entirefirst week before the show in Seattle rehearsing, okay 'cause. It has like somany video Kus and Lia Itwas, just like Uh. That was where I actually, it waslike my first time extended stay in Seattle and I I don't know a nt didn'treally nothing. Bast gues like that! Si. What time of year was it I mean it wasSOEs, be very hell yeah, it's pretty dark yeah, but I I mean I've been toPortland in February and I love Portland Yeah. Well, it's not the samecity oe but yeah I mean I yeah. I used to go toSeattle, a bunch and it's either great or it's awful. When the sun comes out,it's the most beautiful place, Somecan Init, you know yeah, I was Gonto. Justyou know. Y eer feel soy that you don't y, Ah Yeah for sure and what type ofennies mostly theateres M, if not all theaters we did like it was, it was strange.'cause our biggest shows were like New York, where we thought would be the BAshows where they easily saw the most were like our smallest venues. It'sreally strangely o interesting. Well, yeah. We we played, you know the all Americanrejects. I think I think that was the band m. We played the night after themand, like I thought it was going to be this huge. You know venue cause they're,a huge man who getting there N it's like a five hundred cedar and I wasjust like confused 'cause. Obviously that's going to easily sell out and wecould have done one way bigger, but ah M. for the most part, it was probablylike a thousand fifteen hundred cedar cool and it snds like pretty bigproduction. Like you know, whatever you can fit in the theater, it's not arena,but rit. I don't think she would have settled for anything smaller than a bigproduction. Yeah Sheshe seems like big production. Yeahs like MEA life,Overdone Barbie, yeah, yeah, O Itsyeah, but overall you liked it. Hete was a it was it was. It was a blast. It wasthe time of my life, my most fun musical moment, though, like mycherished memory is I opened up for Hulewis on a couple of shows: Yeah andUH. We played one in Saratoga, which iskind of like their hometown and we're on top of a mountain. You know like islike winery and it's beautiful. It was like it was probably the same amount ofpeople like fifteen hundred. Two Thousand and it was like, but thatnight was so beautiful like it was like warm and nice and they're shootingstars after we playind, and there was like watching this famous old band. Youknow I s like it was, and I was panking with my best friendstoo. That's that's thing. It was like my friend's band, so she was lrecruiting all of our friends to play and it was just like that's that'ssomething that's going to be hard to beat. Even if I have like the biggesthour in the world, you know, even if I'm playing for Aur in a grandday, it'slike that's going to be obviously the best time, but the most meaningfulshows you know different yeah ellit's, all about the people. Teyr sure was itthe mountain r mountain winery, Yeah Maa that venue is, is or Don Yeah.That's such a great spot yeah. I actually played there with Mat Rodi andwith ABC. We did the whole eighties show there. So we were- and I playedthere a couple of times- twite but just gorgeous ou play ther multiltimes, yeah,at's, Awsom, I'd love to go back there, yeah, it's pretty sweet, it's just theroad up, ASCAR on a tour bus e y Yea, Theyn fall off, it was pretty Crazyi have to confesssomething I I love books, but I I don't love reading and it it's been somethingthat I've I've wrestled with. Since I was a kid you kN W, I can read. I havered books but they're very time consuming, and I've spent most of mytime trying to build a music career which takes a lot of time. But onething I definitely do a lot of is drive...

...in L, a traffic on my way to a GIG andthere's a solution that combines those two situations and that's calledaudible. Dotcom. Otto has thousands of audiobook titles and you can listenoffline anywhere anytime. The APP is free and can be installed on allsmartphones and tablets, and they have just a ton of music related titles.Like all you need to know about the music business by Donalis, passman, Ow,music works by David Byrn or music production secrets by Calvin Carter,and you can get a free thirty day trial right now, if you visit, audible, trial,dotcom, slash, dive bar rock star, that's audible, trial, dotcom, slashdive bar rock star, I'd like to take a second to thank youfor listening to the dipar rocks o our broadcast as a newpodcast. Getting theword out is a vital part of what it takes to keep the show on the road or off the road as their current case.Maybe if you would like to support the broadgast all you got to do subscribewherever you listen, and if you have an extra minute or two esy o review, youcan also share and follow the botgast onder social media APS. Okay enoughbegging, I hope you're having fun and once again thank you for listening and S. is he in like character all thetime? No, so she's only en character? Well,she had like meat and grases she had to get ready at like. So if we had to showit seen, we started pretty much on time. Every night she hav to Ge Reay, liketwo: Oh Wow, really sucks Um. So as soon as she put on make up, I thinkshe's encaurageer yeah, apart from that, no it's KINDOF, justlike you're hanging out with a friond like at'scn, even when she's incharacter, it's like when you're in the band. It's Kindo like that personalrelationship. You know s like never really fully incarter Ond the band, butdefinitely changed mindsets around two o'clock like e hours before the showjust Le Different person, the first time I actually I we were doing anevent for serious FM. And U that was the first time I saw her anddrag and she walked through the door and it's like six foot, four. You knowand like really. Why- and I was I kindo- got intimidated like scared a littlebit like s cool. I I'd never seen you know, I'd, never seen a drag me in herlife. I wasn't really familiar with the drag meen scene before getting thestore, I mean even during the story like I didn't, really have a lot oftime to study the culture or anything RIGHSO. That was a an experience. I bet so you did, youknow, had you seen pictures of her and stuff yeah yeah, but when you're, notwhen you're standing next O, where it's when you're a five nine tiny man you knowpresy for that right, theremusthave been some crazy crowds. Yeah I mean there's only one or two shows um that were weird. I was, and I'm not sure why, but most of the showslike the crowd was just like they love her. So much, I'm sure you're familiarwith that feeling. It's like you take out the years for half a second andit's like the loudest thing in the world. T feels so good, yeah man, justjust bibing off that Energiis, the Lov people have hers is Great. I mean ThaNi drove me every night. Why we do this, you know. Is that isn'tit I don't know n? Definitely I mean that's. That's definitely the reason Ilike playing big stages. It's just you know that energy you feed off of it's it's different than playing bardigs yeah. I mean yeah objectively, it's like not the same energy, no yeah efor one. I trust it more. Youknow Bargis by the time everyone gets they're drunk. You know you could oudbe any band up there. But to be you know, yeah white has a very loyal. Youknow even Cacomasu that I played Hos for twelve years. Actually you saw issaid scholars, that's t e oer time. Jimy Pakon was plan with this, butshe's the same way like really dedicated fans and Um, not the sameenergy as White, ocum or Trik Matel, I'm sure ckos a much more subsubduedthing, but you know it's just a great thing. Iremember that night so well, going to your show. It was like two thousand andtwelve. I think two thousand yeahits, probably two husand and twelve. Thatsounds right and I my phone had died and, as I think itwas like right before Uba was a thing I didn't have a smart phoneeither like Isawd. My like Flip Onan H and my buddy that I was with we ran to yourGat 'cause. We were going to be late and we didn't have any other chance.itial. We didn't want to take a tax because we couldn't afford it. We brokeand it's not close to the test. I don't know it's not close at all and we were.It was like a twenty degre night or something like twenty five Oni. I wishwe had one pair of gloves and we kept traiding it back and forth. Alwascrentinto your dig. That's a college story right there, an one pair of glovs.We have one Pairo Glos an we kept shared. It is that's cool yeah I wasthat' mean I love that memory. You know yeah, even if it was a shitty time itwas like. I mean your show as great...

...yeah wait a second. What do we do? Well as a Berkeley Person? What whatdid you think of this show? It was fun. I think the first I saw you twice.Actually a scholers. The first time was with a drum it might have been. Shadwas it? Oh. Yes, Tis Cha that one I felt like was, I mean looking back.Even I felt like was a little tighter. I feel like you guys, had playedtogether a lot more yeah. The ONEL, as n Facon I felt like was cooler likeJimmy. Just has like the coolest feel of all time. You know yeah and, like Iknew him better so, like I enjoyed being there more on that one that wasless o a musician thing. I wasn't. I don't think I had the ears that I havenow back then so t'd be hard for me to like talk about what was good for meback then. I I like, as shows you know, but like it, was easier for me to be atthe one with Jimmy Righ, because I knew him yeah. He does bring a a certainthing. That's difte his field, like Oh, my Gosh, im LAS heas, her in Colvercity. He just like nobody feels like yeah. Nobody, it's funny too 'cause hewas probably still is. I don't know havework K for a minute now, but he was one of her favorite guys and hedidn't play the parts exactly right, but but nobody cared, you know when youcan get to that point: 'cause she's, a very stickular like impor. You know allthese parts are important to her and all the little notes. But if you canbring a thing, though, that she likes then you're all good and it was neverlike wrong. I mean semy PACKSD and he's not going to play anything wrongnecessarily, but he didn't you know he only cares so much about the record,but it doesn't matter 'cause the few of it. You know right, um well, anyway, look up Jimmy Packs andhe's great trohes. One of my favorites, just 'cause, feel you know Yeah Yeah El,that all the time it is like. I love hearing him Blay Yeah and then you'reright like me, and Chad shds has an episode on his part cast as well likewe, we had played a million gigs and tons of Cak gag specifically, but thenall kinds of gigs. So me, and him were you know: the Band was tighter,probably more laer than yeah and Jimmy's always kind of sobbing. It wasnever really his GIG and we would just get him whenever we could get him so, but that's interesting. I was justhappy that you didn't like come over and hate it. As you know, someone who's,learning, fresh stuff at Berkeley right, I so coming out of high school. Youhave that like musical biase, you know like you're only supposed to likecertain things, but I I feel like after ISO going to Berkeley that shatteredlike- and I just you know I pretty much like every genre like there'sob,something great about every type of music Um Nobia like that show wasn't I mean thatwas more towards the jazzs jazz side, which was what I was trying to likemore back than anyway. So worked out, yeah, she's kind of a good combinationof popand, jazz, right, at's, t a interesting game and just she's sounique in her Japaneseness. You know that I love that game for twelve years. Imean not everything about it, but the music was always right, pretty fun,challenging enough yeah yeah. Absolutely. I saw Hon triky's websitethat there's a European toursept for January riht. A Do you think it's gonna.First of all, do if it happens, will you be on it yeah Um. She asked me to be on a probably a couple of months ago, maybethree or four months ago and I' love to do it Um back then I didn't know whatwas going to happen. So E was like Im, I goin to have to get a job before then,but right. Luckily, I'm able to move back in with my mom. So No, I thinkithink I'll definitely be on it. Um Cool, but it's definitely not happeningJanuary yeah. Officially it already got bushed BA hes car yeah. So right nowit's hopefully we can play. I mean it's in summer and I'd love to go to Parisin the summer. You Know Lan, Spain. In the summer I don't know man like I, I've gone to bars in the summer, a Dit was really hot and it was a drag like maybe fall or spring might be. Imean the alternatjanuary going Toaa and we were going to like where else like super northern European cities yeah thecoldest thing in the way. That's not something I want to do yeah, so I wasstoke that I got moved I'll deal with hairis in the summer. Like I don't care,Rih e H, it won't matter as much in Paris as it would in like Norway orsomething Ou N. obviously, but I think that was one of our you know stops likeyeah yeah yeah. We used to go to Eastern Europe all the time with Cako.Speaking of so the reason, the stuff that I didn't like about the CAKO GIGwas all these. You know I've done like fourteen tours of Russia and Easer inEurope and Siberia and stuff, and you always go like March when it's stillforty below zero, because in the summer everyone leaves their little towns togo vacation or whatever. So we were either there in like December orFebruary march you'R, like always cold, that's wher, the traveling was justawful and like buses, there was no heat and, like you know it so yeah I hearwhat you're saying summer's better...

...cause. I don't have the clothes forthat ohright cause Youre, see I'm originally from Denver. So I had my oneski jacket. I had my ski clothes still, you know ain't that worked for thatyeah and you you'd be surprised how fast youacclimate like the first two days, you're just like how do people livelike this? This is unbelievable and, like literally the first time I wentthere, it was record year of forty below zero in Moscow which both scales- that's where theyintersect like Celsius or Fahrenheit. So forty below zero is the same andeverything it's just really fucking call it's really. I mean like it, it'sunbelievable n. But after two days of it you don't notice it as much you'r.just your body changes you know, but obviously you still need a coat. YouKnow Yeah Yeah. Every time I think like. How am I going to do six weeks of this,but by the third day, ot? It's like all right, and here we go again. You knowwe Y H. I I don't know we played a a lot of northern cities in the U Sduring February, and that was already too caditengased. To that I mean weswitched hamsons all the time, so itwas like weather was always different, butit was mostly cold for the first lag and we'd spent like we had to go, spendlike two undrer bucks, and that was too much o E. I don't want to spend morethan two hundred bucks O on clothes that I'm only going to use for a weekor two Y, ah, and so like. That was something I didn't want to have to doas go buy like five hundred bucks worth more co, cold clothes. You know CAGsright, sowstuck that it's moving. I also play with your band pushpush. Isthat still a band? No ITSRO Alrit? I didn't know it was a dark, no o Ot um that guitar player. I think I'dprobably talkd to you about him before. That's still Yogo Adiego, he uh stillsplace. My heart obviously he's. I think I think naturally he's probably theBest Guitar Player, my age, that I've heardie just rhythnically. That dude was insane washing videos back then like hehad betterhythm than all of us, like Cols, like a virtuspianoplayer and likeCol riddle, yeah N, Diego still had you know better feel than he did, and itwas just like degoas, one of those guys that shines bright and then you know itturns to drugs and never showus up again, so that kind of size. I starteda band with cold yego and then Kirn was the singer and Krin quit music. She hates performing so shehoesn't sing anymore. That kind of sucked like to start a band wofh allthese people that really love US musicians and have half them just neverplay music again, wow yeah H. I played a couple of Giys with you guys and ohmy gosh, like just worked me out 'cause it's an interesting. It was aninteresting situation because you were doing pop tunes that you would kind ofjam out, but then you would do Herbey, Hancock and, like full on, you know, beat the shit out ofit. You know I was playing this fiews and stuff and man. I remember th onenight I literally broke my base trying to keep up with you guys. Those arealways the best nights. When you played Um, we aditioned like six or seven baseplayers. You were the only one that we like playing with weedle Cook it. Ifeel like that s Mein to say ut, like we like playing with other baseplayers,but you know when somebody fits and someone doesn't it's right. El have somany more years of experience, an other people and, like I feel like. Naturally,I felt like I played really well with you or, like you helped me be moreconfident in my Plang, so that helped us play with you a lot more and we justliked. You know the energy that you helped us have, which was like that. Those two times you played with us werestill you know. Col, and I have talked about, are like our favorite times thatwe had on that band Um. We did one night where my dad actually sat intoo.It was like ther, one year anniversary at theaarand. That's like that was thatwas probably the best thing we had there. I mean the energy was so greatand we were all on fire that night it was yea. Both nights you played, like Ifelt like everybody was on. You know mean that's rare yeah well, Wehad alsoplayed a bunch of gigs previous too, so we know each other really well justthat kind of music. That's you gotta have that relationship base in drums,especially so that you can go places you know feels like that was agree. Ihad O blast. That's great, I mean I feel like that was that was one of thefirst bands where I learned to listen as well like in a different way like mydad's band was more like listening to make the songs sound good. That banwas more like listening to see what shop you can play off of right. Youknow we did not care how the songs sounded and that Ba, like we playedrock with you honterbeacs faster. You know, itsjust like Hav Fun with the sonever sounded good, but it was fun a Hai think. A lot of people woulddescribe jazz in that way. 'CAUSE! It's like not really about the audience to acertain degree. You know it's more of a a conversation amongst posicians on thestage you know, but Um, so you did you play other places. Besides, I playedthe same place twice. I can't remember the name of it. INDATIVE SOINGTON, be Idon't advertise their nmore w how to...

...falln Ou but uh yeah. That was, I mean.That's still one of my favorite pvenues that I've played it just like so openand like so that was the thing as I'm playing all these songs and and thecrowd is digging it and I'm like how did you guys manage to find a venuethat would put up with these this music right and then an audience that lovedit? At the same time, I was, I was pretty amazing Di. Did it go over thatway other places, or was that mainly where he played? We tried o couple ofother spots, but we we unsuccessfully tried to write musica couple of times and like that's one way we didn't clict likewhenever we had TDEGO and Col and who were like the two main writers at thetime. Would th Y, you know they. They didn't think at all like so Diego Kinawas like more like the blusy Syl, a D and coals definitely way more jazzy, soit's just like you'd think they might work together,but they didn't. They didn't want to like play off each other at all. TheyKINDOF wanted to just write how they wanted to write so like we had tworating cessions and we KINDOF came up with one really great riff and thenthat's it w. So we tried to play covers at likeother venues, but it never really worked like o. You know I don't it feels weird playing covers at likeserious gigs. You know yeah. We try to play a coupleof places. In Hollywoodand its like all, covers like what are we doing yea right and you were the itwas your band, you were the leader Tere, so Um. What was well you've already expressedsome. You know it T, wasn't so fun all the time, but you must have learned alot as a band leader I mean. Is thatsomething that a position you enjoyed having Um no th? I I feel like a lot of times. Itfelt great, but then a lot of times it felt like I was everyone's. You know apparent like Rnot, even likethat I was you know it just felt like I had to be not even like that they weredoing anything wrong. It was just like for some reason. There was like somepressure that I felt that it was like. I need to make sure this happens. whandthis happens and this happens, which is stupid 'cause. It was like for fun ban.You know I wanted it to be serious. I wanted it to be like a a band that gotbigger as know MOA people in the R early twenties new, and I thought it could have been 'cause.You know every player was great, but we just didn't. Have that not everyone had that same mentalityand that's you know what you need to have right, yeah so and it's thehardest thing. That's why you know there is a billion, I mean,there's a billion bands, but most of them last a year R'cause. It's you knowto find the beetles noe sit's really hard yeah. I went solo when I was likeseventeen 'cause, I just like screw this yeah oehard. I mean I thi, evenhow that I'm older, like I would still like love to like try to have something like that,because it's so much more meaningful like to create your own stuff withpeople that you love mm. No, but you know it'd have to be the right peopleand that's I'd like tried to find another singer for a year afterward-and I was just like. Why am I doing this like it doesn't matter? It's notgoing to be the same right so have to Bvoyeah yeah, it's UST, a toughbusiness, and you know that's a big reason. That's a big example. It'salmost like better to avoid working with your friends. MMYOU know in aweird way: 'cause it's it's a really vulnerable situation and find you knowfour or five people that see the same way. It's next to impossible andthey're just begging for catastrophe. You know anthose things that we were talkingabout earlier. You know like parts of my dad coming out like I didn't wantthat to happen with people that I was trying to like create stuff with. YouKnow Ras. That was also something I you know had to like. That was something Ilearned how to deal with T with that ban. Mainly you know us like. Don'ttake your temper out on these guys that you're trying to you know how somethingwith right, and so you come out of Berkeley. You come back to l a wasthere ever any m hope or want to stay in Boston or never. I wanted to comeout 'cause. I never really wanted to be like a jazz drumer. I always wanted tlike jazz facility, but you know La is kind of more of the poprockine and, like I didn't like playing rock as much I've, always kindof likeplaying pop um, but you know I grew up with my dad whoplays a lot of rock and, like I grew up around a lot of players that play a lotof rock so like I knew how to wha. I knew how to kind of you know. I thoughtI knew how to EROC aright. That was Kindo like the decision for me is like.I should just go home and try to make a career in l a where it's easier. Youknow not easy but easier than going to New York and trying to live there andstart when I'm a poplar, not even a jazz player Sotin. No, I didn't want tostay in Boston. I mean I'd love going back, but yeah no desire yeah. Did yougo back on this tour yeah and that was a great layo guys play grade. Stop Yoplayed it in newberry comics, which was...

...really Oh. I used to go there all thetime yeah me too, and they they moved to locations yeah, which was weird Um 'cause like at first,I didn't realize it, and then I was like way. This is different Ointeresting. Then that was really cool, Um 'cause. Now they foll Meinstam andthat's really Rad. It's like something I didn't know. I wanted to happen. Okay, so you came here. What was thefirst thing you did when you got back to L A and like what was your plan tolike? How am I going to get a GIG? I Um. As soon as I got back, my firstplan was to start dating this girl. Perfect, like music, was not somethingI was concerned about at that time. I was like iy of time to figure that out.I did that girl terrible Thisin't. I feel, like you probably remember, Umpromably, terrible terrible time, and I I spent way too much timefocusing on that Oriona relationship and then, as soon as ihad shiftedtowards music. It was like I didn't know what to do so. I kind I startedteaching and I started playing that's when I started playing with my dad moreUm and yeah, I mean T, that's that was mymine set. It was just like hey I'm going to play as many Gusas. I camewith my dad and hopefully I'll get another gig from somebody else thatmoves out here. Afterward you know, God I went to school with that didn'thappen, but that was my 's or I did yeah I'm away later, but I'm sining right Im like I all my friends stayed in Boston for afew years after that, so it was just like interesting kindo felt them limbo for abit, and I was just teaching them in that. Like I top more and more and I got I- Iworked at coast music, which is you know, matrodes and Bethrodi School Righ,and I got more and more opportunities there. So I kind of just filled my timewith that and said I could Tok on, like fifteen students, and I taught like tenbands. That was what Ibee I did that from like two thousand and fifteen twothousand and sixteen until January of this year. So I mean that wasn't myplan, but that's what ended up happening yeah, but did you enjoy that?No, no UH? No I'm at the point where ID never want to teach again o interesting.U, obviously I had se some kids and some bands, I really loved, and it'slike, even if you don't, like your profession, you're still going to havethis moments where you love them right and I'll always remember those kids. Igot a little kid he's like five or six years old and hes always come talkabout like some made up things of his dreams and stuff a like isadorable andlike we played like the aventers Tame, his seve, he loved the advengers anditws. Just like that was blast a then. I taught this other kid whowas likesame age, five or six and he loved the Beatles and we'd only sing beetles, andthat was great. I mean y that probably my favorite band of all time. So I Iwas down to co teaching to sing beetle songs all day and even if he reallycouldn't sing. Yet it was just like still a great time and were they allthat young? No, I talk from like five to like fifteen. I hav some adultstudents too, but it was mostly five and fifteen yow yeah M and as soon asthey hit like fourteen fifteen, it's rough yeah e, yeah start Theye, strtteaching or treating you like youre kind, especially if you're younger theytreat you like your friend or like a Collie. It's like I'm supposed to be ateacher, that's cool! I mean you got past it and o I mean I don't know thisis like. I said it's a really interesting timing and that's kind ofanother reason I wanted to talk to you 'cause you're, sort of the beginning of yourcareer. Even now I mean you've been doing it quite a while, but and a lotof people that I've been talking to so far. You know teithe well into their careeror maybe even towards the end of it. You know Um. So it's an interestingthing too, because you know this coved thing. We end up talking about a lotall the time, because it's just become more real and real real, as the thinggoes on, but most of us are just trying to g survive it and get to the otherside of it. If I was just starting out- and I justgot my big first tour- and this happened- I mean it just feels like itwould be a little more challenging to to survive. You know yeah I mean.Luckily I have my mom. You Know Yeah Ana fall back on, but yeah I mean ifyou're talking about like your you're morale or whatever rih yeahit was. It was a pig pretty big blow like it kind of sucked, but I think thetour was fun enough that it Kindo gave me enough energy to last Ol, thetorpiks up again and the fact that it's happening to everybody like nobody'storn right now, it's Corao feel better about it. Yeah we're all on the sameplane, Yep Y, I about your biggest hero right,he's sitting at home right now too, or she, you know, yeah yeah, it's Eincerover there. He can't play either yeah. Well, Iplayed one gay yeah yeah. It was cool Ockula Srift for like this, like smallface, big eenit was just like that was really strange. Playing for no crowd,just in front of cameras was, was we at yeah? That's something else to get usedto. Yeah did not stratch. The is right I mean playing with other people didbut like did not strap the of playing...

...for people, Yeah Yeah for sure. Well, Dude. This is awesome. Thank you,itwas a really great conversation. I agreciate you coming Sh. I have beenthis close the whole time now I can hear you was that a problem we can do the whole thing over Hos Igot plugin for a day dude. I Ca Noyo sure we can it's not even going tosound like you when we're done. I can come back in five minutes. Let's just go to the top of thequestion. Well, you know the good news is thatyou do have this Gig and it's an ogoing Gig and it sounds like she's goingto beloyal, you know and she enjoys her band and she enjoys what you're doing so.That's vrety exciting that you'e. You know. I think there will be a light atthe end of the tunnel and just think you're going to come out of this andprobably go to Europe. That's not a bad thing at all TA. You know the dream:Yeah well, anyways, you're, a great drammerand we gotta play more together. I think- and you know a you K ow if we can get any gigs rightnow. I know that local S I mean I haven't, played a single gag. I I did alive tream with a friend of mine, but Um. You know any big tours aren't goingto happen so elike once things I'll bet you when they start to open up it'll,be more local stuff, so I'll be around Yeu'll, be around. Let's, you know nd, let's do something, but anyway, thanksfor coming on man, you're welcome, then you' er. Having me think You'e erhaving me can give you onmore time Illan, so I can have something to pickfrom Im. First of all, I think I have toapologize with this super noisy episode. We were both kind of soft talking, sothe Mikes are wide open and I have two crazy squeaky chairs in my studio thatI I have to, I have to fix, and at one point you can hear probably what was afire department helicopter going overhead. So I apologize for that. Ihope it wasn't too distracting. It was interesting to get a differentperspective on Berkeley College of Music in that whole experience too,because I I think I've presented mostly a positive um view of the place, but of course justlike any institution, it has it's downsides and there are some someinteresting inherent flaws with having professional musicians as teachers bur,you know, and not. Every professional musician is a bad teacher either andnot everyone's a great one. You know so, but it you know, he's been at Berkeleymuch more recently than I have as a student. So it was interesting, andthis show is about learning, so I'm open to those ideas- and maybe you canwrite me and nd- give me your opinion of what it's like at Berkeley. Thesedays, I did like when he said the average drummer has never been thisgood. I hope he's correct and Um. I you know. For the last few years I haven'thad the opportunity to play with a lot of young people, so I I hope, he'sright, because it gives me a little hope. I also liked when he talked abouthis dad being really good at controlling the tempo and like speedingit up a little here and there just to to provide some more emotional weightsto it and reminded me of a kind of a rule. I don't know a theory that, whenyou're playing rock and you get to the Corus you speed up a little bit andwhen you're playing country and you get to the Corus you lay back a little bit.So I heard that theory and I started checking it out and it it seems to holdtrue. We mentioned panchos and how I had met him there, that's a bar inManhattan beach, which is really an amazing place. If you ever have aweekend where you're looking for something to do, go down on Friday orSaturday night and see the band it's run by sackplayer Jim Wheeler, and Iused to play the with James Clay. Garrison and M he's no longer there,but Jimmy Packson used to be the drummer, I'm not sure he's the guyanymore either. I think I 's Joe Travers, actually Chris Fraser EricDover is the current Um. Guitar player leads singer, he's incredible CocaPal's been on based there for years, and it's just amazing musicians in in areally cool fun bar on the beach coast. Music Conservatory is placs in Ridondo,it's an awesome school for, I think all ages and man. The talent that comes outof this thing is just incredible. So if you've got akid who's interested in music, it's a great place to go. It's owned in run byMatt Rodi and Bethrodi Mat Keyboard player, a phenomenal keyboard player.That's an amazing singer, really good friends of mine. So I would highlyrecommend the place. Fred Lipsius does still teach at Berkley College, musicand safe to say the duds, a musical genius. So don't get me wrong. I I gota lot out of playing with him but h. You know there were some challenges. AhI'm saying coal riddle was the keyboard player for push push, and I think hehad mentioned his first name at some point: phenoml guy. He was sixteen whenI played with em incredible player and I think he's got a new song on spotifyso check that out and at one point I...

...said, Mar Americana and I think I wastrying to say maybe Americano, but I didn't so that's what I meant Americana.It's a great form of music check it out. I hope you had a good time and we'lltalk to you on the next onewow. You've made it to the end, I'm hoping it'sbecause you completely enjoyed yourself and are now filled with knowledge andinspiration to move forward with your dreams. If that is the case, and youwould like to standformed it new episodes of live events and GeneralNews, please go to dive bar rock str, dotcom and sign up for the millinist.If you have any questions, comments, corrections or complaints aboutanything you hear on the show, please email me at fan: Mail at Dibar, RockStar DOTCOM and you may even end up on the show we at the Dibar Rock Starpodcast with all of our hearts. Thank you for listening and remember. It'sall about dreams.

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