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The Dive Bar Rock Star Podcast
The Dive Bar Rock Star Podcast

Episode 30 · 3 months ago

Brandon Rogers- Use What You Got (American Idol, Usher)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Singer, Songwriter, Producer, Brandon Rogers, talks about his soon to be released EP and shares an early listen of two of the songs. He reflects on his experience on Season 6 of American Idol and explains his mixed emotions about being voted off. He discusses his time in quarantine and the songs that came out of it. Brandon also explains how he got to be the voice of Oha in the new Coming 2 America movie.

B. Random- Finish Line

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtSVPwDImx8

Quarantimes (Star Again)

https://youtu.be/fKRmfp9NEg8


Alec Benjamin- I Built A Friend

https://open.spotify.com/track/68XhCrBajUR64h6wv4eYYW?si=6186b5afb5464027


Frankie Rodriguez- In A Heartbeat

https://youtu.be/Rkvvfb9NvtA



www.divebarrockstar.com

If you are a fan of the dive or rockstar podcast and would like to help support the show, there's a great waythat you can do that and start a new fashion trend. We have a newmerchandise page on the website, which features t shirts and hoodies that areavailable for sale on amazon, just click on merchandise and the top menuand all of the links will be there or go directly to dive or rock stacommerchandise. Get started early on your christmas shopping at di bar rockstarcom. Welcome to the die ar rock star podcast,the show exploring the lives of professional musicians of all typestouring, musicians, recording artists, song writers, engineers, bar bands,wedding bands and anyone making their living in the music industry, whetheryou've dreamed of being a professional or you already are one. This is thepodcast for you in your host eric banes, and i hope that you not only find someentertainment here, but also some helpful tips, trade secrets and ideasthat will help you achieve your dreams. I realized the other day that, on mylast podcast, i said that i was going to take a few weeks off and i don'tknow how it happened, but it's turned to seven and a half months and it'sbeen an incredible journey. I have a baby. The baby is here: lynen allen,baynes he's super healthy. Everything came off, you know without a hitchother than him being two weeks early, but he was just excited. I think hejust got excited. He wanted to meet everybody and he's doing great he's.Keeping me up late at night and early in the morning and the chaos is, is afoot, but it's mostly awesome. It's also madea little more stressful by the fact that live music is back and which is agood thing, and a lot of people are getting back to work. Finally, after idon't know fourteen months of lockdown and everything being shut down, so it'san exciting time. I've been out on the road, it's been great, seeing liveaudiences again, and you know i'm sure it's great for everybody to be backdoing what we're supposed to be doing. My guess tonight today, whenever,whenever it is that you're listening, that's the beauty of a podcast, i guessis an incredible singer: songwriter producer and keyboardist, he started asa backup singer for artists like anastasia, christina aguilera and usheramong many more. You might remember him from american idol season. Six, wherehe took twelfth place, he's just finishing up an e p and on this episode,you'll get to hear it. First we got a couple of brand new tracks, one ofwhich isn't even the final mix. It sounds awesome, don't worry, but thehe's not even out yet, but he agreed to give us a bit. He s, just a taste justgive us a taste. He's got lots of music on spotify tocheck out, though including an ep from a band that i was in called b random,so check that out he's recently written some songs for a couple of disneyprojects, including a musical called sneake rella which isn't out yet it's amodern take on cinderella. Look for that, but he also wrote a song for highschool musical, the musical the series which is on disney plus and the episodejust aired on friday, but it's history, making it's the first lgbtq love songthat has been written and performed. You know for a disney show, so it'spretty big deal he's also the singing voice for oha in the new coming toamerica movie, which came out a few months back, but it's so hilarious,especially if you love the first movie you're going to want to check this oneout. It's really great, just a heads up that there will be some language inthis episode. So maybe this isn't one to listen to with the kids, but youknow that's how we musicians talk sometimes so, and it's a podcast, soyou know we're going to do what we do he's a really awesome. Guy he's a super,talented musician and writer and he's a great friend of mine. So i hope youenjoy this conversation with brandon rogers. So we're talking about your new e p m,which is when did you you have a date? No, i don't because i wanted to makesure i had the songs first yeah. That's so is good. I've had a lot of cdrelease. Parties were like the sus going to be here in a week, but sothanks for being here to night, i've done those. You probably played it acouple of mines. I did just that yeah no, i am, but you were justtelling me a story of how you lost, so you had a whole completedthing with a vibe and you got how many songs on it. Five five songs, one sixbut you're. Looking at this, definitely almost like a record where there's ayou want it to be a complete. You want someone to sit and listen to the wholething exactly. I want to be an...

...experience. I wanted to be anexperience. Every song has a theme, it's probably the most personal stuff,i've written just because i mean shit. I was in myfeelings during like the ademit like der during isolations, like beingsingle and living alone, and not being able toleave your house all together. Wow was just a mix for me. Having go see ashrink, i guess i which, which, which happened, which is, which is, i guess a positive negative like is, isone of those things like i had never done, but i always wanted to do, but i,finally, i woke up one day in the middle of he panavia d. I was like ohthis sucks, like i just like i felt i was more depressed than i ever been inmy whole life yeah and so i'd already written a couple, songs that are thatare on the ep. That sort of you can sense that energy from it right, but i'm just i have a feeling, that'sgoing to be a lot of people ceps coming up yeah and i was trying to actuallyrelease a couple songs during the quarantine. I that reference to quarantine directly,because i didn't want to do that afterwards right, i didn't want it likesome of them. They tackle the mood of isolation like one of the songs isabout anxiety. Is my son e mus called deep end, and it's about like wantingto connect with people, but not actually wanting to connect with people.I be afraid to be, because i fall in too deep and it's going to sort of oguess you can take it two ways you can take it too deep and emotionalconnection with people or i fall into deep in my own anxiety right. It'sthey're both true so that you need incontro, is a fantasyfocus of tragedy, searching between the lodge reading, what fun right right, because i cannot petelia chooseto swappable being too hasty, but i want to lonely made me yea. I was just talking about the idea thatyou had a song that you would co written yes and- and you were like hey,i got the c pall done and he's like. Oh shoot. I sold that i sold that song,which is like yay, you know e, so the song to a license in company for use and tvshows, and they love it and they're like it's in there like their group,that they always get placed in shows so i'll definitely make some money offof it right. But i was just like fuck like i'm like. I was done m, like allthe songs are written now. I just had to like clean up some vocals andtighten up the production, get it mixed and mastered right, and then i couldlike pick a date right and and start like deciding which videos i wanted tospend money on or if i wanted to spend money on or right just it would just. Ihad crossed the threshold that made me feel really good, so i felt really badwhen it ended, and i didn't know what to do, and i knew it needed theenergy that the song that i lost had it so i produced i produced basically a re harmonization of the same songgost this how it started anyway, and i kept writing stuff and i kept was likereferencing, my other one and trying to write and capture the moment. You justcan't like it just it rings false, because every song has its ownpersonality. Every song has its own sense of creation and and sort ofsource of inspiration, yeah exactly on particular come a place. It comes froma particular place. That's intangible toyah! I think so too i mean i writesongs for living for lots of different artists, but i'm kind of a nerd, and ilike it, i like big words and my favorite big word is very similar. Tude,that's awesome, which mean that's a great for her, which means having theappearance of being true and that's what makes any good piece of art feel connective to people who listen to it.It's that it's the very similitude,...

...it's the it sounds real, so everythingi write has to start from somewhere or true nice and so me trying to duplicaterubber stamp. This song. That was true as heck when i wrote it right, it's notgoing to work. So what i did was i sort of broadened my idea about the theme ofthat particular song, because the theme initially was ambition m, and so thisone is more about like like and like it's like a conversationwith myself about ambition and comparison to other people's careers and lives.You know we always we all fall on the trap of looking at someone who's thesame age or younger, because that's usually what it is. They're olderyou're like i'll, get there, but if they're younger and like everything's,popping off yeah and then and then you run into thedangerous thing of being like well, i'm better than an it's like. No, no, no,that's a facebook doesn't help yeah, it's not for you to say they're likethe current any any any social bed. The fact that we're all glued to social,meda. Constantly it's like it's a cour to do that. Instagram is curated. Yeahi mean by you right. It's curate you're, not most people aren't posting like theworst pictures of them. Sright they're not posting themselves like waiting fortheir unemployment check by the by the mailbox. You know, they're, not posting,that right exactly they're posting themselves. You know in a seat withextra leg room, saying it's first class yeah yeah anyway t i i didn't mean to get inthe specific about the song, but i just i kind of love it because it's aninteresting lesson, because i do not a lot, but i do more. You know riding for tv where it's like.We can't afford this song. They used to call them sound alike, but nobody wantsto use that term any more right. So my instinct in your situation would belike, let's write a sound, a like yeah, but when you're doing something that'ssupposed to be art and not supposed to be the background was somebody exactobscene or something i want to mean something: it's a hard place to go toyeah and actually that's. I do the same thing and e h and it wasn't actually,when the song i wrote was the original song was a quote: unquote, sound alikethat turned out not to be but right because i don't it was like supposed tobe like anderson pack, and i don't listen to an an a lot of man, and iknow it's great because i've heard some of this stuff. I love it. It's supercreative and like interesting and cool progressions, which yea yeah i freakhim, love yeah, but basically they do this sound like part in the trackoriginally right and i just wrote what what was in what it came to me in thewind from that from that track right. So i wasn't doing it sound like, butthat's how it started right. That's how i started so. This is a not sound, alike oast right right. That happens to be that i happen to like. Actually morei'm everything happens for a reason, yeah. I wrote and produce every song onthe ep, except that one well and so that song got taken away from me and ihad to write and produce the one to replace it right. So now i have an epthat feels holy mine. So you've you wrote everything. I wrote every song, iproduced every sing by yourself an me by myself, yeah in isolation, slowly losing my mind wow. Firstly, i gotta get a little somethingoff my chest. I want to shine in the cabana impress a y o stay brotherimpress. Yes, if you feel a time away, then i'm talking to you, i'm not tryingto make it feel like a fool, but you can only grow. If you know the true, we made a magic you an you can have it. They focus on your inutilis. I so do and i'm on jugi won't tell you want todo for me. You just take your own best, o a you to you. Have you one of the most eclecticwriters? You know eric and i were in a rock man agate wewere in a band and you know it was o really awesome, yeah and probably themost pop big band that i've been in since yeah high school. You know yeah,so for me it was really fun anyway and actually more poppy than me. Actually,usually i just i'm a hard person to category grass in for myself as likewho do you want to be as an artist i'm like, i want to doo, like all thethings i want to do, yeah whatever.

That means right, yeah and you do it in the cep from whati've heard already. You know, because that's what you were talking aboutprogressions and that's what you think you know where your songs going yeahand then you don't. You go somewhere totally awesome because i get boredwith it while i'm writing yeah, and that, for me, is like my most favoritemusicis. You know like i because i mean i don't know i can get old and grumpyabout how, like i feel like you, i gritted it out of the podcast, but igot it. You know i enjoy. I grew up in the a s e, like music progressed everytime even heard a new record, and i don't know that it does that anymore. Idon't know, that's really a part of the thing. So when i hear things that areare progressing like you, this is this feels progressive to me because i pry iget in a tracker like oh it's, it's like an rb pop thing and then you'regoing whoa that, where that's not or pop that's this or that you know likeit's really interesting to listen to it. Well, i appreciate it like curry, is somuch going on there. Oh yeah, like you just then i melike that sweet, it'sspicy exulting. I know, but you know that just i mean that i came to it asmy parents like to say i came by it honestly right in that. Like you know,my favorite writers, growing up were stevie, wonder and james taylor and thebeatles and bonnie rate and like so it was just is a hodge podge of musicalidentity and that's what it feels like. I feel like you've got a palate yeah ofa lot of different stuff and just kind of sprinkling it on there like assometimes i'll, do something that's more like a pop or like somethingthat's current feeling, but then i'll dig more into the lyric and you knowand then something that's a little lighter lyric i'll make sure i makethose in cord agression, interesting yeah and that's not even for anybodyother than myself. That's and that's one thing i learned about making thisep in particular and me making music generally. But this time i was like iam a forty three year old man nobody's going to tell me what the fuck i'mgoing to write for saying, yeah like i just i'm on to write and produce what iwant to hear right period. Yeah like i like is like. I don't have time tofocus on like what the possible result is. I'm not trying to get a deal orsign like that. I mean you know we can segue into something else, which is youknow the sort of democratization of the music industry through you know throughinternet, and you know, companies like a wa- and you know like paper out andwasting in cd baby and things like that. That sort of allow everyone who has thecapability to put out music right like there's a nough was more and morepeople every day too, because the gears, the chair, you would do it on yourlaptop, in which i like both high key hate and am very appreciative. At thesame time, it's a tricky. I'm glad for me, because i am someone who has workedfor years and we went, you know, went to college school for music, beenwriting touring singing when people doing on tv banat on tv, duding, i'vebeen hustling for twenty years, and so for me it sort of frees me up to dowhat i want to do and then figure out how to get it out. Then the hard partis finding the audits. The downside is that it's just a sea of it's a thefucking pacific ocean of music, it's just so much stuff, so that in turnmakes it even harder to get attention, especially when you're a fuddy daddylike me, who fucking hates posting on social media. I'm sorry, i curse a lot.That's about me! It's all good! It's a podcast i'll get beauty o ye yo warnpeople. You know going in kamerad a lot yeah yeah, but you know what i'm saying likeit's like dad. It's like! Yes, and no like please, god like i want. I wantpeople to shine, i'm not a i'm, not a person who believes if there isn'tenough room for people right like i. I can see that i just said about. Youknow there being an notion of people out there which there is, but i alsodon't like the idea of gate keepers of people like labels and stuff preventingpeople from doing that. So you know i constantly tell me we allgot room to shine yeah, you know. If you can find your light, i meannobody's, got seven billion fans. So there's a there's a market for you yeah.It's just enjoy yourself finding that. Well, that's a petate thing, it's justas much work to get to your people as it is to make great music and thatthat's where the gate keepers, because i kind of go to that about it becauseto me it's like an aar guy. That was a talent. Those aren't just people thatwere preventing. There were people who could see something that people wouldlike yeah and exploit it. You know, and of course the deals were never fair.You know you could there's plenty of stuff about the record label systemthat eadable, but but the idea been sin twice. I get it yes right and but theidea idea of qualified gatekeepers sort of keeps everything a little at a leastthere's a standard. You know yeah, but...

...they have to be able to control thegate like an ember, not just keep the gate and like see what's missing andget you know, develop artists and all that stuff they because they were theonly outlet for people to get out there. They knew what the hell they weretalking about now. I actually know some many in our people and they don't knowwhat the fuck they're talking about. Yeah like i and some of them there aresome of them. Are some of them do right now totally and those are they tend tobe like the people who are like our h, like around our age. You know what imean yeah and- and i sound like i'm sounding an old man now, just because i'm like these kids todayyeah but like like when i mean i havderad they're, like twenty seven andi'm like sir, please hot, tell me about anything.Yeah, it's tricky most of the kids. I work with you know, production andwriting wise are sixteen to twenty five yeah. You know my playlist when i getin the car is the future hits playlist, not the current pop pilles right futurehit yeah exactly because i always want to hear what is getting the leastamount of plays, but these kids all know it right. They all know it already,the stuff, that's getting lots of, plays they're over it already becauseof attention spans. Well, you know top perducers talk about how like they haveto think a year and a half ahead, because they're going to make thatrecord and then it's got to get packaged up. Yeah, that's not gonnacome out for a year and what's the what's the sound going to be then yeahthe greatest are the ones that can call the next one to it, and you know whoknows maybe most of the time it's an accident but yeah, but if you're alwaysdoing the greatest and at the same time you're the leader, you know you're theone actually pulling the rest along. I feel you know you're totally right. Ithink, for at least for me the goal you know i got some stuff coming out themthat my may or may not break, but if it does, i hope it's because i'm nottrying to duplicate something i heard- or you know like on the radio if it ifit makes sense, i'm trying to keep the sound the current sound and theprogression of it in my head, while trying to do what i just want todo we're in a production like for for for an artist like i'm, not you knowwhat i mean, i'm no trying to copy, because i think that's where peoplemake them a big mistake to me. It's very successful for very lucrative forthem. Sometimes right to like just come completely like how many more trapsongs to be need. Yeah, right, like i just totally duplicate, duplicate,duplicate, yeah, you hear the formula like you like four cords, spooky piano,sound, pull it back ado, weight and the same and then a thin on the radiosmover en sons, and now everything is dubstep yeah. You know it it many highhats and that's been happening since the beginning, like every song in thefiftys sounded the same. You know until you can hear the the changing sound asthe eras go, but yeah, but you're right. It's like you, don't want to totallycopy. It's like what you got to be able to what's next yeah. What's next, iguess an i elevate, what kind of elevate right and what can i bring tothat a one one else going to bring to it? What you're going to bring to intoyou? I mean i tell all the the i call on the kids. That's why i i kind ofeflaton ask ye that tell the people that i tell the people that i that iwrite with one of my beliefs is that nothing isoriginal, but everything nothing is inherently original. Everything is theculmination of everything you've heard and what makes it the original is howthat transmutes through you yeah. You know what i mean that i so i think youcan't spend too much time being like. I want to do something crazy, i'm like aguarantee you're going to use the same. Thirteen notes, twelve notes, xcuse meas everyone else right exactly so you have no choice. You have no choice.Semitones couldn't work yeah in not in the western world, exactly and actuallyto be honest. Even in eastern music, it's usually a passing tone orsomething like that's right in between some things, like a yeah nobody's likeplaying the f sharp, sharp half cord light. Lino nobody's doing that right.So do you in your writing for other people versus yourself? Is there adifference there? You're always trying to be. You know, come from the sameplace that that i try to be as consistent as possible. I'm definitelya little more discerning for my own stuff, because it's just it's different.It's coming from a different place. It's i want it to be my own. I want myown energy. I want to take my time and figure it out and it takes me longer towrite a song for myself now for other people. I've just sort of learnedtricks, usually the first half hour to an hour of a session. Sometimes it'sjust me having a conversation, it's just me asking questions, shooting theshit asking what's on their mind and and low key taking notes, while they'retalking right and i just sort of try to figure out like because, like i saidbefore, i tried to stay consistent it. It has to be true. It didn't have to belike a true story like we're not talking about biographies here, butit's got to talk. It's got to have some sense of true right and it can't be. Ithink, where a lot of people...

...songwriters make the mistake is makingstuff overly general, and so it's so general hits nobody that's exactly, andso it's got to be. I'm like no make it super specific yeah and then i feellike it'll feel general, because people will feel like they're seeing into yourworld and also by the way we're all humans yeah like what are you trying toavoid? You really think that your experience is the only you're, the oldperson's el. That's chantants too specific. For me, i'm like no dude like so like. If you go to watch a moviethat has a really unique plot. Are you always like it wasn't general enough? Idon't it's. I don't know i don't understand, but you know what somepeople feel that way reel like i couldn't relate, i'm like it's iron manbro. He sins we're talking about songwriting.I have to talk about this song that you wrote, and i remember the day that youwrote it because we had a band called brandon we'll talk about that to but-and you came from the session- i'm pretty sure- that's how i remember itand you were like listen this, i'm goin just row with this kid alec benjamin,oh right, yeah and i listen to it again today and it just in terms of comingfrom a real place, even like i'm literally bawling uncontrollably abouta fictional piece of plastic and i'm thinking. What did i miss? Why is thishappening? Is one of the most amazing i i've ever heard in my life i rumi builta friend. It's called, and i don't even know it's not yours necessarily or idon't know if i can play it on the podcast without getting. I am a fiftypercent owner of that song, so i don't know yeah, so i probably just put alink but yeah. I would check out the song, it's unbelievable and it's onit's on a like benjamin's album, it's funny exar. We wrote it back in the day,but he put it on his most recent album on the on the deluxe o. This is rericktiming, yeah, perfect time, which is great. It's on the area, these twowindows or something like that person. I forget i forget what the name of thealbum is, but something about two windows: gosh you, but anyway now thereason. I think what you feel, because i feel it even when i hear thesong is because you hear what we talked about to get to that point. He wassigned to columbia records at the time, he's not any more. He signed to someoneelse, but he was signed. He was signed to somebody and he was feeling he wasnine eighteen or nineteen. He was feeling he was lonely and something hadhappened with his friend and in my world, like one of my friends and mydog just died like like within six months of that orsomething like that, and and so we just had this moment, we were like what, ifwe wrote a song about losing a friend or being lonely and then it became andthen we sort of wrote a screenplay ish like no king can play, but like anoutline of a screenplay for that, so because, because you have little timein a in a song, so you have to paint a picture that carries over to the nextpicture, yeah or else or else you lose them. You can't jump too fast m, so wecreate sequences and we were like okay, we want to get here. He we're going toget here. It's we're goin, to write us talking about a kid, so lonely that hecreates his own friend. Okay, then, the kids that becomes his best friend andthen he goes off to college and neglects the best friend and the bestfriend kills himself and it's a r and let's make it a real, unbelievable forkids, yeah yeah, no, and at that last turn catches. Everyone off guard likethen in there, like literally i'm like it's a piece of plastic and a old cellphone. What am i? What am i crying about because it's about more, but ithink also the harmony is gorgeous big like you, you get sucked in right awaybecause you're like oh. This is a sad story and it is it's horribly tradit, so you,but in the middle you think it's going to be happy like because it starts outit's like he's sad and he, like oh he's long well, i don't think i e felt thati just because, because of the first words, are i built a friend, that's sadright there, i already i'm like, oh well, you got, i got me for you got.You know you got it because it is sad, but we were thinking. We would trickpeople to the thinking that it becomes right, it becomes happy and he's satedand then the rug is pulled from my right yeah that that one like this oneturn of the lyric, where you know this holy, we had so much fun together, wehad it, we thought we'd made fans forever and so the last time we had, wechanged when lyric gazes e, and we had so much fun to no, we knew we'd, befriends forever is what it is. The ole song yeah i, the last one, is wethought stelites, that's actually strangeenough that little turn i do that in some songs, because that's a countrything yeah and that's where i got it from listening to grown up listening tothe country, music and and how they would shift two words in a verse hereor there, and you get chills up your arm because it just changed the meaningof everything yeah. Well, i'm glad you, like i'm glad you like the song,because i really love that song. I mean...

...it might be on my like list of top fivefavorite songs of all to. I appreciate that it's one of my favorites, butspeaking of like emotional songs like quarantine, was a challenge for you. A couple of greatsongs came out of it. Yeah actly wrote a song cod, but quite turin times, corntimes, yes, which it wasn't the first time i heard that song i mean that term,but i think your take on it is so cool, because what i love about your your sadsongs is that there's, i don't even know if i call them sad, but whenyou're talking about an issue that might be controversial, maybe or atleast serious there's always this positiveness yeah and there's a you'realways sort of trying to make peace with it yeah. I think i'm an inherentlypot, i'm an inherently positive guy and i'm an inherently curious guy, and soi'm a firm believer of. Do you want to be upset, or do you want to fix itright? Do you want to stay mad, or do you want to fix it? Do you want to staysatur? Do you want to fix it? I want to fix things. I want to figure out thingsright, and so i think you can only do that in when in songwriting, when youtalk about the journey of something i can't just sit and wallow in a feelingin a song, i have to work it out through the song. I feel like that.Just to me that's more interesting than just writing a sad song. You know rightlike i was when i wrote corn times in particular, i was sad and i was lookingaround and i was like: can we all do better than this, and and so it becameabout that, but it's also it's like. I try to ride this line because i don'twant to be preachy either right. Yeah is you know, there's a tricky line islike just you know, walking rope, but i do it a lot and, and sometimes i fallon the one side, and sometimes i fall on the other, but i always try and yougot to do it with questions. I think is yeah how you don't you know the socrate.We should open our minds in these corn times yeah. Maybe it's awesome. Maybewe track yeah that i didn't feel preach yeah. I appreciate that i wish and ilove it. She brought the song up just because i that's how i meant a lot tome and i did a one shot, video against my wall in my living room right- and ijust i don't know- i just really love that song and- and i can't even listento it anymore, because it makes me sad yeah because it takes me back to what iwas feeling when i wrote it. This be ay show is the worst you win. Now you went up in a herd,don't it to fist eyelid, but i'm kind of like that anyway, it makes me fall apart some days, butnow they're all the same. Sometimes i don't either when i try what the using doing well wi, just byin time, ordine plays in a losing game and lost, become or so no plan away amaster than when they opened up the gate and letthe horses on we just going to find another tractor run around to an a s.Noses time is running down. It's a chance. Gofio live without a down thateach other is the one thing that we can live without not the money that welisten from your back an got. Maybe we show over the by mind. It is comentimes when i first heard it to. I justthought: oh brand is going through a bit of a theater phase because it hadsort of a musical theater kind of you know what funny i can when i re listento it yeah i like. I, don't hear it is much. I push it, but i was goingthrough the music a push back on that because i used i gotten that my wholelife and it's because i have a big voice and because i like lots of court,you like courts, and i like carnality, yeah cords and melody and like i don'tknow why i don't know when one day that became assigned to musical theater,because it's not like i'm out there, seing oklahoma or some shit like it'swell, you know what happened is that slowly but surely pop music stopped youyeah you're right now, the only place you hear it is on broadway you're right,you're right, i just you know. I went to caller for yes, so like i'm, i'mtrying to not do that, but because wants to do that, i don't cause. I like you know: eating yeah iand like paying bills and, like you know not living in alleys, that'sterrible! I got lots of successful jazz musician friends and i'm being a dickright. Now i take it back jazz. You taught me lots of things yeahabsolutely, but i like quartz yeah yeah. So where did you go to school? I wentto university. North texas, north texas, north texas, north texas state, or, ifyou want to get,...

...we had a you know, campus jazz radiostation like a lot like jazz schools. Do no, it was k nt you because it veryeasily could have been k unt, because everyone calls a unt right, butnot the radio station, because evy is like for years it wasnorth texas state. That's what they're used to call it right then and then,and then twenty thirty years ago they started. I like all the signs andeverything says: u n t guy. So did you have a good experience there? I had agreat experience. I have friends that i'm still friends with a lot of his ablur yeah, not because of drugs. I did us. I didsmoke a lot a way, but now i actually know i take it back. I didn't smoke. Weduring the school year actual i had a rule about that. That's cool! I kind ijust been like you know. Practice rooms are like you're in it. You see thatpractice room more than more than school like right more in the school.It's like you know, you have twenty credit hours in a semester and that's aheavy semester, twenty credit hours and you spend twenty thirty in yourpractice, room yeah yeah practicing for like three classes right, it's greatyeah! No, i learned a lot of stuff. I met some good people in the colsonjones, which we sang together in choirs and bands and you in as a singer as asinger. As i say why, when i was when i got to college, i played pianosaxophone and voice. Primarily, i played other instruments, but those arethe three that i'd like was on samples for, and so when i got there, i was premed for one year and then my parents, both individually their divorced withtheir friends but individually without talking to each other. We're, like you,seem miserable and strange enough. My parents are theones who encouraged me to switch my major to music and it was. It was nosurprise like i went there to be adjacent to music yeah. I was like. Oh,they also have a good. The school is great for music, but they also have agreat premit program. Someone to do that in to be practical. That'sinteresting, and i was good at two things: music and saints, and so when igot there, i played those three instruments. I had to make a choicebecause i was looking at the sex player, i'm like oh, if i do that, i'm gonnahave to only do that and if i play piano okay, if i do that, i'm not onlydo that and i was like, but i'll sing in minor and piano nice. So that's whyi did yeah. That was. I was a little bit in the same boat when i gotberkeley. It's like. I got a pick and i was like well the only one i can reallyread on because i played base in high school, but i it i didn't want to o.Instead of practicing. I was just like. I just learned to read pretty well andthen i could just show up and do it as a you know what i mean yeah. So when ital got to college is like well i'm going to be successful, i should dosomething i can read on. I was i just picked base, but like i mean it wasalways it took a long time adjusting because in high school i would playeverything for everybody exactly it's like what i got to spend, how manyhours doing to focus on one thing. Yeah i mean i don't know if your audience isaware that eric is a kind of phenomenal bass, player and singer and jana playerand guitar player. Well, i m i'll. Go i yon base. I can just let it watch, letit wash over at the phone to ring and be like hey. I heard you a great, youknow, guitar players. Then we like what you t i can get some takes. Yeah. Don't call me for your gig, but yeah.If you want you want some tracks, i got tracks for day. It's so funny. That'swhy i feel like about piano people. Sometimes they're like hey, you know,can you come and do this piano gik, i'm like absolutely not, but if you need meto play piano on your track, i could do that. Give me some takes right. Exactlylike i might. Even you know i can. I can do a jazz sole on the piano. If yougive me a take because i'll write out the s just to ask me to do it off thetop of the dome right can't do it, i just i'm not built for that. I'm aclassical player, mostly right, so that yeah dexterity without improvisationfor my fingers yeah, but i could, but i had to take in proficiscere d, what notfor him not like acting in pro classes, jazz and prove classes, but but i waslike you know, in a room full of saxon trumpet players with the mike guy, andso i had to lean, but i had to do all that. I'd go through all the paces.They did not hold back on me and it was painful. Well, it's good, but i learn pays offright, pay it off. I a i think, and it's like i used my i use my degree inthe things i learned in, like the jazz vocal groups there passively like is inwhat i do a lot, especially during the pandemic. I had to step up my production and my vocal production,because performance was gone. Yeah just gone like evaporated into desk, thankgoodness for like unemployment, because for a minute there was looking kind oftouch and go with my life and finances, but we figured it out and i i thebenefit of the pandemic is that it forced me to do some things that ineeded to do any anyway. I've always wanted to like level up past. Just youknow, playing gigs just occasionally doing tv stuff. Just you know just iwanted to i've been tryying to level up,...

...so it was good because i got some goodopportunities to play to produce and right. One of them is very really. Youknow distantly related to me actually because yeah yeah a lot of my in lawsin law of eri. Well that one i can see, i can talkabout high school musical, the musical the series, because, like a spin, wyou've done song or to an so i have not, but you know, but my brother in law did acameo right. My brother loses grayville who, as in the original three movies,yes, he did a cameo in the last season, so just watch tune into disney plus forhigh school musical, the musical the series- and i wrote a song called. I choose you great woa. No, no,that's not what it's called. Oh, no! You don't even know your song. Well,that's one of the lyrics. It was we. It was a toss up when you'reright. You know part of writing. A song is deciding what you're going to callit yeah, but it's actually caught in a heart, beat guy in a heart beat, andthat's i'm really excited about that song. There's also an upcoming moviecaled sneaker ella, which is sort of a take on cinderella. I a new modern,take on sonertute. It's it's so well done from what i've seen. I've onlyseen the clips around my song, but i wrote a song. I wrote a song, that'sperformed in a disney musical, like in a disney music musical movie on top ofit. So that's that's one of those things i got to do that's one of thosethings that kept me from being in a complete like dark cloud during duringthe quarantine, because both of those came happened during the during thesituation and i vocal produce both of them s so, which means i did a lot ofzoom sessions which actually strangely opened up. Another thing that i starteddoing, which was a niche that i sort of found which was tracking vocals acrossthe country to assume in different applications. I figured out how to doit then a way that a couple people hired me to do it andit became an ease it just it was just it just some things worked out. Ittaught me tommy to use what you got: yeah yeah. Yes, what you guys try toput yourself forward, yeah and, like i think, yeah at this point in la anyways.If you don't have a studio set up at your house, then you haven't caught upan you know. You can't keep up. It doesn't work yeah, exactly so manythings, and i wonder how much of that is not going to change. You know what imean because it's cheaper. I know you have to run out a studio anymore andyou know if i'm going to do a session. I'd rather just call you and and send me. The files then have to go rentcapital records out you, one hundred percent. Actually i just did a sessionin camera, so they're open, they're, open and a lot of rules yeah. So i imean i've done a few. You know big studio sessions since everythingstarted opening back up and it's just it's been a little weird little. Youknow when you're singing in a choir and everyone's got a partition betweenrights, yeah and and you had to pull up your mask any time, you're, not singingand which you know. I appreciate it. I'm not one of those people, i'm likeyou know it do what you got to do until we get right, but also like as soon asthey were like take your masks off. I was like you know, because i wouldn't got that.I w got that vaccine and the vaccine beat me the hell up for one full day,yeah and it's so after that happened. I was like i've earned yeah the abilityof the right to take this fucking mask off. I've got super powers now yeah.You know. Okay, tell tell me this. My friend brought this up. The other day.Did you like, after you felt like shit when you came out of it? Did you feelkind of like a superhero? I not a superhero, but like did you feel like ifelt like extra healthy? Not me, okay. I in my mind i felt superpowers, but no, it was like it was one day of. I don't even want to say it wasthat rough. You know. Other people had a worse, but still there was like weirdheadache and like it didn't feel. I never had a headache like that. Youknow you just did. I feel, like i really exactly yeah an then i feel likeit lasted like three or four days, i'm just like not i'm doing stuff now andi'm cool i'm out of bed, but it's just there's this weirdness. I never feltthis weird before i felt like the hottest of new york garbage for likeone full day, one full day of like where i was popping tylin al most ofthe day, but i you know when you sort of take it and you realize if i didn'thave this time, i now like this would be yeah because be the worst dam.That's what i did to like. I just felt like that. I was like yeah because,because you could i go, i could feel it like. I would take the tone on than i'dlike lay down and then i'd wake up when the town all wore off, and i was justlike like reaching for it and then after itcame up. I think i think maybe it was maybe i m what i felt was like reliefright. Maybe i just felt like you haven't, you didn't realize how muchyou were carrying that's worrying about whether you were going to get coved.That's exactly it. You know. I definitely feels like i was like. Oh mygod, like now. My blood pressure went...

...down like ten points like a tale, butnow you know, i definitely thought that i think i think a lot of us did. Youknow a lot of some. Some people lost no one. Some people lost a lot. Somepeople lost cold families yeah my uncle passed away from ovid. Like my dad'sbrother, i mean he was older but still like, like he thought he had a cold andthen just kept getting worse and worse were yeah, so so yeah we don't have togo down that that dark alley. I in granted it's a well lit dark alleybecause everybody was and by the way this is episode. Thirty, i think- andthis is the first show i've done in six months and part of the reason i waitedis just because, like i'm tired of talking about ovid, that side of ityeah, i know what i mean like. How do you have a music podcast when no one'sworking? You know it started to get a little weird to me, but rickets backbaby and you're like hey. So what would you recommend the when you move to lalike? What's what's your thing to get gigs and how do you ask that to quitwhen there's no a like bel coved yea, i have to confess something i lovebooks, but i don't love reading and it's been something that i've wrestledwith. Since i was a kid you know i can read, i have read books but they'revery time consuming and i've spent most of my time trying to build a musiccareer at which takes a lot of time. But one thing i definitely do a lot ofis drive in la traffic on my way to a gig and there's a solution thatcombines those two situations and it's called audible. Otto has thousands ofaudio book titles and you can listen offline anywhere any time the app isfree and can be installed on all smartphones and tablets, and they havejust a ton of music related titles. Like all you need to know about themusic business by donald s, passman, how music works by david byrne or musicproduction secrets by calvin carter, and you can get a free thirty day trialright now, if you visit, audible, triloba rock star, that's audible,triloba rock star i'd like to take a second to thank youfor listening to the dive par rocks, our podcast as a new podcast, gettingthe word out as a vital part of what it takes to keep the show on the road or off the road, as the current casemay be. If you would like to support the podcast, all you got to dosubscribe wherever you listen, and if you have an extra minute or two leeseleave a review. You can also share and follow the podcast on your social media,apps, okay enough begging, i hope you'rehaving fun and once again thank you for listening. I on enything i've seen youin two years. No, so no one look like we were in bands together and and theneric got a dope ass gig and like bounced the f out and was just gonelike in the world and like flashing on our news feeds. You know facebook, buti'm just i'm just so happy for you brad, i'm just i'm just happy that it that weall want gigs like that. Actually, some of the gigs i had when i first startedmy career, like some of my early gigs, were big like touring gigs like becausehe started out as a back. I started has a background singer in my first gig.Was this lady anna stasia, who a lot of people in america don't know, but atthe time she had sold. Like thirty million records in europe, and did youget that gig in la so you love la no i'm okay, because you're originallygreer up in la my mom moved to texas. When i was in high school i went to to.I went to high school one year in texas, eleventh grade, i fucking hated it, andso i kept some friends but i fucking i hated it and i moved back here.Graduated here then flew back. There went to college, i will come back forevery summer here and then after college i was signed and in a boy bandafter the band. I i moved back to to la and live with my dad and worked atblockbuster video and then, while i was, and then i did this like september.Eleven charity thing with it was called unsigned artists, unsigned heroes, fundin art, unsigned artists for unsung heroes right or there. I go usa for ushokay, so we did it, and that is where i met ret. That's where i'm a sure redfisher, my best friend a great singer song, ranter yeah. So do former powerranger! That's that's her! That's why i rent red my friend, charlotte gibson, asinger as well, and a pilot of other other people. All you know, ali porter,who recently won the v voice a couple years ago, all these people. We all metthat day and we've been friends ever since then, and i bring that up becauseat that event i met charlote gibson, who was singing for woten houston atthe time and we just connected. I didn't see her again for a year andthen, a year later she was working with anastasia and remembered me and calledme and asked me for i wanted audition and i auditioned t- and i took that gigi would not have. I probably would not...

...have a career where i mean it wouldjust be different. It would be wildly different. I can't say we be bigger orsmaller, but i think she's she's, like my sister and we're so close and she'samazing singer, but she got me that first gig from that gig i got. I wentfrom anastasia to christina galera to back to anastasia, because christina yeah that that by gosh lovely girl, so i christina back to anna stagia- waser wer for two years, then the usher and then in the intero, just like thestreets and glades night and earth wind fire, and all these little one off hereand there because i got in with ricky miner and he does it go yeah but like and then from then it was onidol and then yeah. So it's like it, the everything folds into somethingelse, and that sort of the theme of our conversation, which isjust trying to move to the next progression in your life yeah, isthat's kind of like they made a big deal about it. He were on american idol,yeah she's on six season, six twelve place twelve place after words forgotthe words and you know titly. No, no! No! You is funny. I was talking aboutthis with my betty. The other day everything happens. I hate sayingeverything i was for a reason. I always say everything happens because it didinteresting, like you know like when people are like everything happens, fora reason i'm like, and the reason is that it happened, because any otherthought is futile. You can't change anything so right, just learn from thepast and move on, because you can't you literally literally nothing you can'tyou just regret, does nothing but make you feel bad right. Exeats, no purposeother than i hurt you so so i forgot those words. I've talked about it onwhen i did the press after that. What was going on with me at the time? I'mnot blaming this, but i had two hurraed disks in my back and i got voted offthe show what would have happened if i didn't give voted off the show had backsurgery a week after i got voted off the show. As i'd been waiting till igot vored all right. If i went two weeks longer, i would have been on thetour so then i would have to make the decision. Do i get back surgery or gorein the tour? Do i go on the i'm more? Knowing me, iwould have gone on the tour because i was aging out of the show. I was twentyeight when i audition i was twenty nine when i was on the show, so i was that,was it there's a one one and done all right. So what would have happened likewhat i've been agonizing and pain on now in a tour bus? What i've had tojump off in the middle of the tour- and you know have back surgery- would havemore injured. My back or like you never know so like that's. Why? If you, ifyou were to go back and look at my when i got voided off, i sort of smile andshrug my shoulders, i'm like like there was not a tear. I was like by everyonei can sketch in my searcher you know like, but, and i'm just i wish my wishmy ego and my not e, going to wait the way that people think, but my my egoand sense of pride pride is better word than ye go. I wish my pride would haveallowed me to share it. While i was on the show right just so embarrassed andit's my first real injury as a human n, the only people who knew where theproducers and every time it came up, i asked them to remove it from the to younot use the footage right any time it came up like an time they saw me get upand i like sort of got up slow and like limped away. I was like cause you notshot that like i could have been using it for sympathy like i know now. Haveyou seen this show recently? Have you seen it yeah? I do watch it now,because it's a whole different show in my whole different show. I lovewatching it before was just simon making fun of people yeah here. Let'swho we're going to bully this week, and he only bullied me the week. I got putit off every o the week. He was next to me, but now i feel if you're on the shownow they would make you use that that would have been your net story, a batstory to see at a chain and like stand up like a silt. No, actually i e the show. I loveit. I think they got some great talents on there and they always get rid oflike the most talented person around the third week. Yeah like the the best,like the person who you is like to me, the the objectively best singer somehow gets cut like early and thejudges you know hold their hold their faces because yeah america is going todo what it does. But i what i was going to make the point of like your story onamerican idol, was that you were a backup singer. Yes, you had kind ofgiven it all up to pursue your dreams, and that's always something when ithink about going on a show like that, not that i was good enough or whateveri've hot. Just i never oddish for that, because i charge out, but it's just like the idea of like well, ido this professionally. I feel weird about it. You know, but you were justyou were like yeah, but i want to. I want to do my thing and they it wasit's just cool that they embrae, that...

...you know you it's cool, but it's also.I would like to preface what i'm about to say with. I had really goodexperience on the show. I had no issues with drama. I got along well with theproducers i performed at the finale. I mean the original when the show wassupposed to end fidelity right, so i had a good experience in the show.However, it's television and so narratives matter, right like forinstance, i wasn't the only background singer that season. You know i mighthave done the biggest artists, but the girl came in third place. The wonderfulmalinda do little. She was also a professional background singer and oncethey sort of pegged me with that, i knew it was going to follow me. Soevery comment anytime, i didn't do what they thought i was going to do. It waslike you're, not a background singer anymore. Brasi know that did you like it or did you not becausei'd like to go, and you know me, i can't hold my tongue. I have a hardtime yet, and so i had hold my tongue and because i didn't want to get youknow, that's interesting yeah, but, and it even showed itself once in that memecharlotte joke rati, because actually my friend charlott, who i brought up,who got me the background? Tingis was a background singer my season on idol aswell, just coincidentally right. Yes, she had been doing it for a few seasons.I ha to sign a waiver. I had to get ricky miner to sin, a waver becausethey ask if you know anybody in production and i had to be like. I know,every single person on stage all right. I have worked with every single personperson in the band, every single one of them, but it worked out because theydidn't have any bearing on who did what on the show like who won or didn'tright. Obviously now, but i remember i was doing it meand charlotte talk about it all the time i was singing a song, andapparently maybe i did too many runs or something in a song and paul abdul said here in the front. Now you don't haveto do any more of those background runs and i turned i glanced back atcharlotte, a show like like she struck, she's like, and so we got on satin. We went up toeach other. We were like what the fuck is a background. Ro background run. Shesaid those background run an actor. That is the moment when i was like. Ohthis is there i'm just going to be the background singing right right on myphone? No, i know my character now. I know my character yeah like an evenwhen like going get it when we got into the top twelve and the time twenty fourshow. I remember so: i've never thought about this. I'm standing there next tomelinda and ryan c chris is like. Is there room for two background singersin the final you know in to be on our finalists right and yes, there is cool thanks, like youknow, just like, but the way they framed it it's to app up tension likeright, the cat poser, let both of them to, but i mean some drama yeah. Theyhave a little bit of drive. I mean have to be weird, but there's like there wasone other black guy and we both looked at each other. We were like you know, yone of us are coming right and we just took as we were like yeah, we only one yeah, only one. No honestly, it was it. A really was agreat experience, and i felt it always felt fair to me like there was alwaystalk about this or that, but ours was actually thefirst season, especially after there was drama about contracts and stufflike carly cox and originally had issues with the show, because i werecontract and stuff like that and for me all respect to everybody. That's comingfrom a bunch of freaking amateurs, who've, never seen a record contractbefore and their like. This is bad. Yes, it is ehb, it's no worse than like when i waslike signing with arista, when i was twenty one years old, yeah, no worseand actually a little bit better. So like what i was going to say was ourseason was the first seno were we got like you know they put the top twentyto twenty four to twelve. I can't remember in like a board room right andthen like four different law firms did like a little speel spiel for us, andthen we got to choose which lawyer we got to negotiate contracts, and then wedesignated people within the top twenty four to like get information fromeverybody, see what we could push in the contract and move and whatever. Sowe got to negotiate our contracts because we got to negotiate ourcontracts as if we were the winners right because they didn't know who wasgoing to be the winner, so we all got input on it and actually it was kind ofsort of fair right yeah. So it was. I don't even know if i'm allowed to talkabout that, but i don't care a d say it just start and yeah it's got to have expired by now i mean i've been t. I don't think therewere the rage back then. Yet it was. I don't think i had an da yeah. It wasfourteen years ago. You know another difference between the show and thenand now is that we're back then we had to close our social media. Hmm, becausepeople had different levels of social media, so they thought it was unfairand it was new like an we come at my space. All right. Facebook did notexist right so right, which i'm about my space run. Then when i say socialmedia, it was basically just my space.

We had to get my space and then anyrecords we had out had to be pulled from the shelves. Interesting, i meanfrom new production you no, i mean right, yeah and but now or now it'sjust now. It's like it's just the opposite. They're, like leaning onpeople's social media they're, like you, know, vote on to your media and i'mlike how is that gonna be fair, but your season also was sangi, who that was an interesting test of thesister sweetest boy. I made him cry once. Oh no, i never talked about this.I didn't mean to i just we were a few weeks in and he was like really livingon the hair and and being a sort of he's got a beautiful ways now, but eventhen it was a nice voice. It just wasn't like he didn't care, he wasfifteen, i wouldn't care either. He was fifteen years old when he started onthe show. Sixteen in a foe off- and i we were at dinner at the r at the hotel,restaurant- and i just remember he was there with his mom, and i just said youknow. A lot of us here are taken this very seriously. This is a you know.This is. This is a big opportunity for a lot of us, some of ye, i'm twentyeight. You know buddy, here's twenty seven like we've all been doing thisfor a while and it doesn't make us feel good to see you not take it seriously,especially because you're getting so much attention and yeah. I kind of madehim cry, but he's a lovely guy. Oh i'm sure i'mlike i'm, i can't say i talked to him regularly, but we're still friends. Igot a number of friends on facebook, you know but yeah i just that was a weird seasonyeah, but we got along so what it wasn't his fault. It was that's why ididn't mean to make him cry, but i felt he had to hear it right. Oh no,absolutely you know because i was grown and he was a kid and so sometimes grownfolks need talk to a e. No, it's amazing and thanks forgiving me the exclusion, oh yeah, that is excuse. I've never told that toanybody ever and i did a lot of press after the show a there's so jimmy doing ellen that youcan find on youtube and yeah. I did i've yeah, i mean it's great honestly. Imean you super poised and you know you look like you. You knew what you'redoing i got accused of being too polished and i got that a thing aboutthat show they went. I could also want to see the change yeah. Let's t. I canalso see that though, because there was a you know, i was what's the word. I have grown intoactual confidence. You know what i mean. Yeah like i'vealways been confident, but it was like a cautious com, confidence, aconfidence that i hoped wouldn't hurt, anyone's feelings or getting step ofmaned feet. I didn't want anyone to think i was like conceited or arrogant,or anything like that and i'm so very careful and not that i'm more conceited, arrogant.Now i just don't care because i know i'm not and i'm like. I can think i'mgood and not think i'm better than anyone at the same time right. That'sthere two different things and actually to name dropped. You, the person whotold me that was just an timber like there's true story, wow i was on tourwith christina and we were back stage. He was first of all i stand. I see thisis me hanging out with the kids. I stand just in him like all day becausehe was nicer to my parents than he had any right to be wow, and when i triedto thank him for him, he told me and he said well, you don't have to thank youfor having a conversation with somebody, and i was like a right answer like inmy head. I was like cases and he was just lovely on tour because there was achristina and justin to her got it, and then i did that grammy's with justinwot too long after that, but anyway, but he was really nice and he told methat you can be confident and not think that you're better than anybody elseright. That's amazing and i'm like i'm keeping this even now you justapologized for dropping justice, name but name. Dropping means like i'm,going to bring this up, to impress you that may or may not be true. What youjust did was give me an experience sure, but the your insecurities just whatyou're talking about frati example like there's, no reason to apologize forhaving a great experience with justin timberlake on. I played you a song thati wrote today and actually part of that is the first line of the song is. Whyis it when i shine? You think i'm trying to impress you and i think,that's there's something there's something we said about the that's thepart that's hard to shake, because we've both done cool stuff, just as asa factor of our lives like it's just we've done cool stuff, but it's justour lives to us yeah, and so sometimes you feel some kind of way talking aboutyour life yeah and your experiences. And how? Because you don't want to meyou don't you know: they're cool and you're, not bragging you're. Justtalking about your life like yeah, i spent seven years touring with people.That's a lot of yeah stories. That's a lot of experiences, probably moreexprience crammed in those seven years...

...than the fifteen. Since i quit since iactively quit singing background m, which i don't regret, i miss the money,and that was my question. I don't regret it one bit, yeah, that's cool,because i also don't believe in r regret. As i said. Yes, i don't believein it. I don't i feel like that's none. The way should do that to themselvesand you can you can learn. You can feel remorse, but regret is imagining thatyou could have changed something yeah. You can't no, i'm totally the exactfuture. I might feel guilt about something you'll just mind. You know noguilt worse out of gilders, that's fun, but i don't regret them. Yeah regret isoh man. I wish i wouldn't have ye keep wishing yeah. You know. Maybe if i washomeless then i might feel different. But you know it all ended up prettygood, so yeah go. Make yourself, make yourself feel like shit and putyourself in not a better and not you're, not going to put yourself in a betterposition to get out of your situation. Yeah by me by regret. Yeah! No jo cando it. Shame can do it. You know growth can do it, but not regret regrets thatone it just. It serves only one purpose and that's to make you feel bad yeah. Ido t i want no part of it. I was thinking about in golf term. Sometimestoo it's like you know. I don't know. If you play golf, i never a golf beforek, i'm i sometimes you shank it ometer woods, just shanks it into the woodsyeah. But the thing is it's the next shot that matters right. Always thenext shot like you might go into the woods, but you've got you've, alwaysgot a chance. You know what i mean. It's like it's about choices sometimesand like you just got to make the better choice next time, ye look back,look exactly! You know, yeah! It's like like we're all trying to get to thegreen yeah. I gome good. A good example of that is just like when you dosomething and some and you say well, i won't be doing that again right, yeahand that's a good way just to ave. Okay, well that didn't work won't be doingthat right and that's, and then you move on you because i could have iprobably spent a week wallowing after idol after i got voted off because notalf not immediately after because immediately after i was like the nextmorning, press six am that later in that day, flying to new york for pressregis and kelly, all the tv shows there flying back tola during the tonight show and ellen and all that stuff. So you don't havetime to freak out that and you perform on all these shows. But then i got myback surgery and i was two weeks alone in my apartment they on in my house. Atthe time i was running a house with two roommates and that's the only time ilike, like wallowed for a little bit like i've, just been like man. I wishyou wouldn't forget my words leah, but then i go back to what i said inthe interviews after i forgot the words they were like. Were you nervous? I waslike no, i don't get nervous on stages. It's not! I've been singing for fuckingever right and, like i just forgot, my words like wire, i was like michaeljackson has forgotten his words princes forgotten his words, but that hasforgotten their words. That just happens. It just happened to me while iwas being judged for it right yeah, and so i do. I regret it. No because do i wishit wouldn't have happened that it would have been neat. It would have beengreat yeah, but it did so what the yeah you know what's the use, but if he onlywhen i was down and like actually bed ridden for a week or two weeks that iyou know did i actually like feel bad about it, but right right, because then,after i healed, i performed the pa at the finale yeah with the tube in myback right under my shirt. Believe that would have been a good.You would have gotten some more air time if you had to use the stoar. I'vesaid this for year. I wish i cared about being famous right. I probablywould be i just never. Have i like single interesting, i like singing. I,like writing, songs i like making music. I love performing, that's what i loveto do. I don't care if i'm famous or not, but the only problem is in orderto do it. The way i want to do it, i kind of have to be right so, but inever chase fame. I hate that idea m. I like the idea of being good atsomething and people finding it and being excited buying and then spinningthat i just i hate chasing fame. I just weird to me i well. This is an amazingconversation because we were in a band together called bee random. Yes, and it was prony you you sa first and thenwe turned to o band in in a couple suggestion. Somebody saidthat, because you know suggested the name- and i was like i don't mind,changing it like yeah i, but probably for me just so. You know like just thebest original band. I'd ever been a part of i'll do the o is the music wasso high quality we put on ep. You know time ape by the producing. You know youwere so it was like a different...

...producers on the thing but yeah an ersong great. You know, i rob really now you actually. I co produce every songbecause i would start it then give it to a producer got you. I would start itand then be like. Can you shine this up for me? Please right yeah and you asale card inflected we did gigs, it was fun and then the whole thing lastedprobably three years and then you know i got the giggle dwight and that waskind of one of the things that yeah left to because dit just works. All thetime yeah do is like literally by er got a gig and it was like all right. Soi guess we're done yeah and i wasn't in honestly, but the problem is we weren't,we weren't like selling out arenas or anything like that and i would haveloved to, and i thought our music deserved. It yeah me too, but but ihave to say, were roundly a you know, one of my frustrations at the time. Itprobably wouldn't have lasted that much longer. For me, anyways because i wasdarting to get the vibe like this is the best band i've ever been in and idon't feel like there's an adequate effort to like. I don't feel like wereally what you just said. I feel like. Icould sense that i don't know that you really want this or it's you onlywanted. If it's going to be convenient and i've been in a million bade, it'snot convenient, you know what i mean and, and it's not necessary, i'm noteven trying to hold you. No, no anything, but it's interesting that yousay that because press more sense to me o no cious, i'm not i no, i get it to iget it and i think it's not about it's not aboutconvenience, it's about. If we would have put out music and peopleimmediately responded to it. I wouldn't have i mean: that's that's convenientea near yeah. I guess so i guess so, but but it's not because we put in alot of work to get it yeah, but to make it, but the amount of work that itreally takes to get yeah. The amount of followers that you need, yeah, you gotto get into van. You got to sweat it out with each other. You got to sharerooms, you know what a that's and that's what we can't do as adults yeahexactly well and that's like, as i tried that that's what actually, what idid me and do you know that kick some sac and i went to house gags my he's.Like my brother, a godfather to his daughter michel, he was oldest daughter.He linda bells band and i was in corbans band. We did a double bill, onesummer yeah, but before the summer before idol, my idol zack and i wentzack zack me and charlie paton packsaddle across the country in a vanand like did small venues, doing like my original songs, his original songsand charles original sons and had a blast. But then i came back from thatlike like broke and broke, and tired and yeah and all thosethings, and so every time i've try to put out music. I i just never have. I wish i had moremoney yeah, because that always because, because that would have changed oursituation because then we would like, like i remember, we shot a video m onthe roof in la and that ship was dope and then my cousin who shot it was justwas like. Oh, i didn't like the footage yeah. After all that time we got ittogether. We had a fucking drone like it was yeastin. The song is dope andyou know most parent. The song is dope and everybody brought their part to itlike which one was that not shoot that shoot the man yeah. I remember eric. Iused to say this about you to marine and all this stuff i was like everybodyin the band like the song would not be the song without the people playing onit. You know what i mean yeah like a true like a true band like i, you knowsomebody sasha, because love sashes, my bestplayers, one of my best friends, is such a beer teller. But it's taken himsome time, but he used to ask me like what to play and i'm like. I don'tfucking, no, i'm not a otar player play it all right, like just figure it outand then like. I would never be like hey eric. Could you play it like this?I'd be like here's, the song eric, do what you do y do what you do, because you know chatand then chad right drums he's our first first episode on diverge, so goodyeah, it's just i was i was i was swimming in riches like i was reallyhappy to have you guys there. I was really grateful to have such greatmusicians and we're also funding it, which is expensive yeah, but i, but icould you're editing the video yeah. We did do another video for finish line.That was i let that a really cool that was really cool. I remember mad at mebecause i only put myself in the in the the lyric video i'm mad as if well nowe're not mad as it wasn't, because it wasn't even intentional it would abummed about is that the lyric videos got forty tousand insane. Video withall of us has ten, and i shouldn't be bummed about ten zand you now i justlike how did that happen was hapines what i should have done in retrospect.What i should have done t is...

...when i saw that notice that trend, ishould have just printed the lyrics on to the randal, video and yeah, but inever thought about doing that because at the time the whole thing was, youknow, make a video make a lyric video yeah like two thing right: do thaterely, yeah and sizes. I mean exposures exposure and you worked your butt offon both of those things like. I was just an odd like how do you do this?Like it looks so professional? I appreciate like taught yourself mymoerner gear, i'm a learner. I am a. I said this early, i'm a naturallycurious guy and i like to fix things. My am bruce rogers son. I have my dad'sson. He builds things he's. He puts things together. He figures out howthey work. So i refuse to be defeated by any program like like, and i'm all,and i'm also pretty good at computers so and you, if you've, never you've additethings before, but when you edit video on you dive in into it, it dive into itto the degree which i had to for those videos and all that stuff, you figureout how musical the process is m, especially when editing a video likehow rhythmic and how like it just it really opened up some for me. Idirected a few videos after that, like i mean all mine, but like i just wish he you know, i wish i hadthe confidence at the time to just call my cousin and tell him. I will fly youhere from new jersey. If you just give me the fucking footage, and i and i'lledit it right, but i was so because we even got shut down by the cops yeahlike it was a live in. The dream was great, i'm going for us already and it's one of those things. It's likeno matter what i spent, because i had limited funds. I couldn't get people to like hear ityeah, because when they did, they liked it right yeah, but it couldn't getpeople to hurt. I paid for ads i paid for like, like i wanted to get a prperson and they were like that's three osandra month ben i've done it don'twaste your money yeah and i was a d. That's a maria. My manager says thesame thing she's like unless you can afford you know: ocv for pen grand amonth or fifteen grand a month right. It's not worth it right, because thelittle magazines and little like blurbs are going to get you. You know shit.Like people listeners, we got a spread. We got to write up in freaking variety,wow like what was it right yeah? I think it was right it because my myfriend interviewed it like. I interviewed it, but she reviewed it forme right because he was a friend m. I was like, can you review this and wegot it? We got a write up and on the website, and i vaguely remember andmaria hit like i know i be cool circle back to the beginning of thisconversation. Yea like there's such sea of people out there and it's a so. Howdo you get seen and, like you know, it's really hard, and it also remindsme of a record label conversation of like that's why you get fucked yeahbecause they have the resources yeah. To put you out there, like you, can'tdo by yourself rigor people who don't know a record deals. Basically a backloan right. It's basically they're loaning, you money n in the form of time and actualmoney and promote promotional power and leverage all those thingsthat the cachet that comes with being signed to a major label. They get allthat and then you pay them back for it right and often times you don't reallyget an advance. You'll get so vance, but you'll see another dime right untilso. You manto make sure that in basses large, because that might be the onlymoney you ever a right make sure it's large or small or really small and witha commit ment for them to spend like...

...big round you. So you see you end upactually re hooping the money, because the problem is that you have to recoupthe advance and the money they spend yeah right. So if you get a milliondollar advance and then they spend half a million on it and you're like allexcited, because you made a million and a half dollars and sales, you ain'tgonna die yeah you're just now going to start making some ready, but you got amillion bucks. You know yeah ububu, you know i don't know. Sometimes it's fiftygrand! Yes, i or going to be one like time, you're going to live on it for ayear, yeah and you're- probably going to be done. Unless your record, youknow break so i don't know it's. I got. I got a buddy, it's one of those thingsi was always like. You know what get fucked the first time, because then,eventually your label will be over. Your deal will be over it, but you'llhave exposure and they'll spend all that money on that stuff, and i got abuddy who spent like who i mean: i'm not gonna name any names, obviously,but he got like a hundred and fifty zenola advance for publishing doebecause he had a couple hits with big artists and, like seven eight months later, he wasemailing me ask me if i could find him a gig, yeah yeah. You know, because notthat he was out of money, but he started to see the end of it yeah itwas like and he hadn't recruited yet so yeah this success he had started to get.Was you know you don't get a dime until have money to back, but this is. This is fun yeah and i wasjust thinking of like you know what we kind of got a rap, but we're going tohave to have a rack, because there's so many things to talk, we haven't eventalked you know quickly. Actually, we have to talk about the arguably. Youknow one of the coolest things that you did during the covin as you're andcoming to america to oh yeah, like massive there's, a great story, that'sa cool story that i'll try to say real, really quickly during panini during thepandemic. I think we talked. I don't know how i missed it talking aboutstuff doing in that we did in the pandemic, because during the quarantinei got a call to arrange some vocals to range and vocal produce some actuallyscratch that i was. I was called to do, guide vocals for eddie murphy, which iwas so excited about because coming to america, one is like my favorite comedyof all time, a special place in my heart, but so i'm so excited and theywas like. You know, didn't pay that well, but i was like i don't care, i'mjust going to do it anyway, and then i start getting into it and because i amwho i am and i'm kind of a completion ist. I call the guy back and i was likehow deep do you want me to go with these vocal productions and he's likejust do what you do. I was like okay and i did it and then isent it in and i got like a call like a week later and they were like yeahwe're going to use your vocals in the movie, like all the backgrounds, all theharmonies on that song on get off different song. You've heard of princeright vaguely, bigly yeah, it's a hack. He was a symbol for a weel right. Yeah,i know is simple. I si familiar with him as a prince, also known as like thegoat, like one of the grades but anyway, so i do all these harmonies. All theseranges and i seem to lead doing an impression of the guy and apparentlywace. They got it the guy. It's been thirty years. The guys this guys like.I can't see right. You mean like the guard, guy god, guy original, you queexactly right, yeah that guy, so i go in. Do it that that sort of inflectionon the on the vocal and they just kept my vocal and honestly, i did not knowso. I that's the original thing you sent them. Yes, you didn't go back inand reade that the down that's the demo i sent them. That's so, and also theylike they had me, do have guide vocal for eddie for there's a memory whenthey're telling a story and they go back and they and you hear it say to belove to re yeah. It's me doing impression of eddie murphy doing. Icame because that was me doing my guide vocal. They kept it. They used in themovie. So that's two to two things in the movie, but i like, i was saying ididn't know either and i didn't tell anybody really, because things get cutall the time yeah. So i was like and honestly i thought they were only goingto use my harmonies right. I didn't i what why would i think they would usemy leads right in place of the character who's in the move. I whoactually sang the original original thing, yeah yeah, but i'm glad they did because it wasreally cool and i got a shit ton of like spotify lessons because of it. Anice like like i didn't, get a whole lot of followers, because i need itit's one of the reasons i'm i need to release this dame pe, so i can sopeople have something to listen to, but i yeah it was like brandon rates, youknow with a hundred and fifty zero listeners or something in thatparticular month or something which is way more, that i don't really get so iwas. I was glad to get a cot. It was awesome i mean we were. I was watchingthe move with the family and its like. I knew you were involved, but i didn'tknow exactly now, my boy, so you askthat's a that's crazy, yeah, it'scrazy and it's so centered, and so now...

...all of us. You know i out of nowhere. Ithought i was just singing harmonies on this thing and then you know one of thebiggest mbas is tianna taylor. Who plays the you know the daughterwho's right, singing that she's the other person who sings in the sun? Andnow i've got like you know the first track on the album says, featuringbrandon rogers and piana taylor and cool yeah. Whatever can forget the guysnamed the jer germain fowler right right or something like that? I, theguy, who plays a came, set, long lost son, spoiler, oler, but yeah, so it just. It really wasextremely humbling experience and when people say that, but i actually mean it see, they go apologizing. I get sorr.There's this no reason, listen, we're all works, some progress, yeah andsometimes things are just tumbling experiences. Yeah, you know it. It waslike. Is such a big deal like and to be a part of? Like i mean? That's it's soin us. For me, yeah i mean everybody. It was really good. As a movie i wishit was like. I wish it was radar. We thought the same thing because youcould tell how careful they were yeah and it's like. If you got a sort of mytribute to you and movie more than to a mogo there, yea, that is a hard or mynudity and and raunchy con comedy right. So this one is funny, but it's likeit's a funny that you can watch with their a yeah is all clean. Yeah, it'suly its a family movie, now yeah it's much much more family, but i'm so gladi did it. This has been so amazing leaet you come and being a part of it.You know, and i think people will get so much out of your thing and i'vealways just had nothing but awesome times playing with you and it's beenway too long. Since we've made music together technology, you know we wrotea song called, enjoy the pain we. Maybe we should to yea. May we should finishit up and okay. Well, we'll talk about that when we close the a and then we'llhave you back on, and it will do well, air, the song fuck yeah. Let's letminipa talk about wait enjoy the pain. Did we record thathere? That was my other house? I mean that's what i meant yeah, okay yeah. Ithink i love that song. I listen to it again. The other day yeah i haven't,listened to it. Do you you have to send it to me, because i have to find it ohwell cause. I i'm like two hundred songs past that yeah, like literallylike, because because i was really in my fantasy to i'm like well, we shouldjust book a be random gig. Oh god just for fun, and i don't even remember thesong. I don't either i are roti just but anyway i really real coming on manall right. Thank you have nothing but the ultimate respect for you, yeasinger and a songwriter and- and it just makes me really proud to have youa part of my podcast. I appreciate i am grateful that you had me on and i'mgrateful to be asked everyone liked to be thought about. So, when you thought about putting me onthe show made me feel good, i appreciate it awesome thanks man, so i didn't mean to come across like iknew what very similitude meant. I think i was on my way to a joke, but inever really got there, but i don't know i didn't know what the time, butwhat a great word now we all know it's awesome. I really loved his story aboutthe coming to america situation because it's just an example of like anyopportunity. You have to be great, be great. You know, even if there used tobe a thing where oh, it's just a demo, we're just putting out a demo, butthose days are long gone, the demos of especially music, if you're trying tosell songs and stuff the demos, sound amazing and sometimes those are whatend up being the basis for the record or parts of that demo might end up onrecords. You know, and there are still appropriate timesto do an acoustic guitar in a voice, but even that it's got to sound great.You know it's got to sound like a record and it really paid off for him that time.You know that stuff was used in the movie. I also wanted to add. I think i'vetalked about choosing base because i could read in college on the showbefore, but we were talking of particular that you have to makechoices in college and kind of focus on one thing, and you know i remembercoming out of high school, where i was doing all kinds of things and playingall kinds of instruments, and then now i got to focus on this, but at the endof the day, thirty years later in this industry, iplay all kinds of instruments now and i was able to do everything that i wantedto do, but i always had those skills that i got in college. To sort of, idon't want to say, fall back on, but that's you know. Sometimes i think ofbase is my day job and that's. Those are the skills that i got because ichose those things and that that i think is really still important. You'regoing to get e there to where you can...

...do everything, i'm an every day of mylife is different. You know all kinds of music projects are are different,that i do and- and i eventually got back to being versatile and and doingevery musical thing that i want to, but in college it was important that that ichose, if you don't know who sanga is orremember who sanjai sangama acar was a contestant on season, six american idoland he was actually seventeen, not fifteen, but he made it. The seventhplace and probably really shouldn't have based on his talents and americakind of used him to take of the show by boating for a mediocre singer every week and howardstern and some other groups had taken up the cause and it was kind of it wasfunny not funny. He also had some pretty spectacular hair that didn'treally help the situation. At any rate, you can watch his performances onyoutube and decide for yourself, but i would suggest watching some otherperformances like brandons from that season, to compare and as a funnyending. Apparently the ratings dropped. Nine percent the week after he wasvoted off. Sound alikes are basically what itsounds like. If a movie can't afford a particular song or a tv show, then youwrite a song to sound like that song, but now they use more of the terminspired by because they're afraid of being sued for copyright infringement.So if you're pursuing licensing opportunities, don't use the terms howto like nda stands for non disclosure agreements, which basically means tokeep your mouth shut, don't say anything and they're. All the rageright now so be prepared to sign one if you're working with a major artist or atv show or i've even signed them to play high profile, wedding gigs, an urstands for artist and repertoire, which you know a and our guys used to be thescouts of the record labels, and they were the people you'd harass, to try toget them to your shows so that you could get signed and become huge rockstars. Brandon also mentioned that he was doing vocal production or he vocalproduced some things, and i feel like that's a new role. That's been carvedout in the last decade. It used to be sort of the job of theproducer to do all that, but now there's actually specialists that comein and just do vocal producing and he described it as a combination ofarranging coaching and engineering. So he would come out. Then that alsoincludes like copping, the track, which is picking all the best takes andputting him into one track and then tuning it up, and so, if you're avocalist and have coaching experience, it's another also great way to make aliving or another service you can offer. Well, i hope you enjoy the podcast andi hope you listen to the next one. A wow you've made it to the end, i'mhoping it's because you completely enjoyed yourself and are now filledwith knowledge and inspiration to move forward with your dreams. If that isthe case, and you would like to stay informed of new episodes live eventsand general news, please go to dive bar rock staro and sign up for the milonis.If you have any questions, comments, corrections or complaints aboutanything you hear on the show. Please email me at fan mail at dive bar rockstaro, and you may even end up on the show we at the dive ar rock starpodcast with all of our hearts. Thank you for listening and remember. It'sall about dreams. A.

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